Is the lifestyle even a viable place to seek single fems?

[iapr]

First off I need to say this is NOT a "how do we get a single bi-fem into our bed?" post. We are experienced traditional full swap swingers who are at the clubs almost weekly and in many ways are a successfull and confident couple. In fact my question may apply equally well to single males as single fems.

We have always prefered couples and will continue to prefer them but we have been talking about getting more involved with singles. My question is, due to the low numbers of single fems in the lifestyle (and of the ones there are being so bi) is it even a viable place to look for single fem in the first place or are there other avenues that would be a better place to look?

We have had a couple FMFs before but it was with vanillas who had no interest in "swinging" per se, and quite frankly, when they found out we were open to having a threesome with them they jumped at the chance. So I got to thinking that maybe the lifestyle isn't even a viable place to look in the first place.

I don't mean to knock the single women that are in the lifestyle but most of the ones we have seen have been borderline attractive at best, have lots of issues, are primarily looking for bi experiences and have fan clubs waiting a mile long to get a crack at them and many are quite the primadonnas because of that demand (please don't get mad or defensive, that has just been our observation and experience. Your mileage may vary). And while sane, sober,attractive, pleasant and available women are a rarity in the lifestyle, there are a lot of them in the vanilla world.

Just wondered what some of your thoughts on this are and if you have any insights or advice? I'd be interested to hear any thoughts or experiences you may had had.

[Chicup]

Some people are single for a reason.

Personally my take on the few single females who are open swingers that we met is that all had pretty big emotional issues.

There are a few who I think are 'in transition' to another relationship and would be sane but its the old needle in the haystack thing.

Because of this we removed looking for single females from our add.

[arvcpl]

We do not seek single fems in the lifestyle at all and the FMFs that we have had have all been vanillas. Those times have occured when the opportunity presented itself, it wasn't something that we sought out. If you were to look through swinger sites you'd come away thinking there were hardly any single gals out there at all when in reality there are lots of them. they just aren't swingers nor do they wish to be swingers. Many probably have the same FMF fantasies that we all do but just don't pursue it. sometimes they just need to be given the opportunity in a safe and discreet and comfortable manner.

[mosmis84]

As a single female, I tend to get a little self conscience about the single women questions since we seem to have a reputation as being ugly, psycho or having some other issue that makes it impossible for us to be in a relationship.

But, I have too much time on my hands today and decided to chime in.

The question of single females and emotional issues intrigues me. Out of all the people I have met at the club, I can't imagine anyone knowing me well enough to be aware of whether I have emotional issues. Maybe it is more of an issue finding people online with the emailing back and forth and such, but in the club, it seems more of a hit and run situation. (Not in a bad way).

I have only met one couple online, we emailed a few times, ate dinner and shared a hotel room for a couple of hours. The next week, I couldn't decide whether to email them as a follow up since reading here about all the psycho, needy, drama crap and the single woman. I think reading here about the opinions of single woman makes me question even simple etiquette. (I did email them, all was well, Mrs. Manners doesn't have a chapter on this stuff).

I guess the club just works better for me, it seems a very isolated situation that has no carry over into my "normal" life. I get dressed up, go do my thing and then return to my life. I just tend to grin more than others in my social circle.

Maybe I am one of those woman in a "transition" period that a previous poster referred to. I imagine I could be in a relationship if I chose, I am just not at a point where that is a priority.

I am sane and sober, I don't drink at all which is interesting itself at a swinger club. I figure I have to be OK with what I am doing as I can do it stone cold sober. I am not terribly disfigured and I show up shaved, shampooed and shiny!

I wish I had a tad more of that diva attitude everyone speaks of single females having. I tend to be more on the shy side and I never assume I am the answer to someone's prayers. I am just a lady hoping to have some happy naked time after a hard weeks work!

[absingleman]

As a single man I've had more FMF threesomes as a single man than I've had swinging experiences, period. I've attended more orgies than I've had swinging experiences. The simple truth is that it is easier for singles to do almost all of the things "swingers" do, with the exception of watching your significant other with someone else (because there is no significant other), so very few single women pursue swinging, even though there are many single women where everything in their attitude and outlook on life and sex says they would fit in like they have always been there.

I haven't had any positive responses from single women online who profess to be looking for single men as well as couples and single women, and personally, I don't see where singles, male or female, get ahead on swing sites or in swing clubs, other than to make themselves available to couples who are looking for a faster, maybe safer way to hookup with a single person for a night. We singles truly do have more opportunities for sex when swinging is not involved, and if we are honest with each other, we can do things swinging couples often never dream of doing because we only have to keep in mind not to violate each other's limits.

For that reason, while it is LOGICAL that a single man and single woman who swing would have a better chance of finding a compatible mate by looking on a swing site for other singles, the fact is the opportunity for sex gets in the way of the chance to build a relationship. Also, since there are more opportunities for sex for a single person, single people rarely have to swing to have no strings attached sex. Threesomes, orgies, gangbangs are all things we who are interested in the swing lifestyle do without the help or knowledge of couples who swing. The only hard thing for singles is finding those singles willing to openly admit they like to do these things.

Thus the reason some of us are still here. Just looking for other not so easily offended single playmates, and the OCCASIONAL couple.

wow, I didn't know that about myself until just now. Thx for the post iapr.

[iapr]

Originally Posted by mosmis84

As a single female, I tend to get a little self conscience about the single women questions since we seem to have a reputation as being ugly, psycho or having some other issue that makes it impossible for us to be in a relationship.

But, I have too much time on my hands today and decided to chime in.

The question of single females and emotional issues intrigues me. Out of all the people I have met at the club, I can't imagine anyone knowing me well enough to be aware of whether I have emotional issues. Maybe it is more of an issue finding people online with the emailing back and forth and such, but in the club, it seems more of a hit and run situation. (Not in a bad way).

I have only met one couple online, we emailed a few times, ate dinner and shared a hotel room for a couple of hours. The next week, I couldn't decide whether to email them as a follow up since reading here about all the psycho, needy, drama crap and the single woman. I think reading here about the opinions of single woman makes me question even simple etiquette. (I did email them, all was well, Mrs. Manners doesn't have a chapter on this stuff).

I guess the club just works better for me, it seems a very isolated situation that has no carry over into my "normal" life. I get dressed up, go do my thing and then return to my life. I just tend to grin more than others in my social circle.

Maybe I am one of those woman in a "transition" period that a previous poster referred to. I imagine I could be in a relationship if I chose, I am just not at a point where that is a priority.

I am sane and sober, I don't drink at all which is interesting itself at a swinger club. I figure I have to be OK with what I am doing as I can do it stone cold sober. I am not terribly disfigured and I show up shaved, shampooed and shiny!

I wish I had a tad more of that diva attitude everyone speaks of single females having. I tend to be more on the shy side and I never assume I am the answer to someone's prayers. I am just a lady hoping to have some happy naked time after a hard weeks work!

When I made the post I figured I would get flamed by the single women and their supporters but thank you for doing it so tactfully and rationally and making such well thought out argument.

I will emphasize again that it has just been OUR EXPERIENCE that the small handfull of single gals that we have met personally have not been anyone that we were interested in. I am sure there are many out there that are perfectly fine we just have not encountered them yet. I openly acknowledge that there are perfectly normal, healthy and nice single fems out there, we have just never met them.

I am not meaning for this to be single bashing thread. There is no one group of people that is any better or any worse than any other group. But I am trying to find out information in the real world from real swingers based on their real life experiences. In doing that there are times you have to ask tough questions and sometimes the answers are not politically correct or have warm fuzzys attached to them. That is the risk I am willing to take to explore this issue.

It is not my intent to offend you or anyone else and I offer my apologies to you and to anyone else in advanced that may be offended by some of the discussions on this thread. I appreciate your tact in responding to this and I will make a sincere attempt to also be tactfull and sensitive in my discussions.

[two4youinswva]

Many years ago, Mrs two4you was asked to participate in a FMF by a friend as a birthday present to her man. I know, no one has ever heard of this scenario before, right?

She thought it would be a hoot, so she did it, had fun, and filed it away as an experience she could recall. It was 20 years later when she became a Real Swinger™ .

What I'm getting at, is there are probably a few ladies out there that have no interest in swinging in general, but would be interested in a one-time FMF or MFM, if for no other reason than to say "they thought it would be a fun adventure and to say they did it", then walk away from it.

Now, as for how hard these ladies are to find, I have no idea. It may be worth pursuing at some level though.

[iapr]

Ok, this thread is less than 24 hours old and I have already managed to ruffle some feathers and while that was not my intent I realized it was a risk. I will try and refine the question a little bit more and offer a little bit more background info and hope to not be offensive.

Since we have been active in the lifestyle we have not actively pursued or made any sincere attempt at any single fems. Given the small number of single women in the lifestyle and given the high demand over the ones that there are I can't see us spending any appreciable amounts of time and energy competing with throngs of desparate bi-fem couples over a tiny number of single gals that we aren't really all that impressed with in the first place.

I am questioning whether the lifestyle is even a good place to try to make a connection with single fems or whether there may be more viable environments out there? We do not know any single fems in the lifestyle that we would be interested in and compatable with but the are lots of single women that we would be compatable with in the vanilla world.

So I guess my questions are these -

- Given a limitation of time and energy is the lifestyle really even a realistic place to look for single fems in the first place?

- If not, what are some logical venues to search such as vanilla bars, vanilla dating sites, vanilla hobbies, friends and acquaintances.....heck or even the supermarket for that matter?

- what would be some of the risks and benifits of a couple actively seeking a single fem in the vanilla world?

- If the vanilla world is the avenue we try what would be a logical approach? Does anyone have any stategies or tactics that have been successfull or unsuccessful in the past?

Any info would be appreciated and I apologize for any feathers I may have ruffled or may ruffle in the future.

[ncmd_couple]

Iapr,

Looking at your question for your perspective, I will give answering your questions a shot.

Honestly, you can meet single women anywhere. And any of them are potential playmates. And how you meet them is just like anywhere else. Be nice, open, friendly, and take some time to get to know them. Use your “swinger senses” and pay attention to her flirtyness, body language, and what she says. I often use my hot tub to judge the openness of someone we meet in the vanilla world. “We are going to go home in a while and get naked in the hot tub.” Or something like that. You know, the dance.

Risks, well, they are the same as they are throughout the vanilla world for swinging. But as with all things, with great risk comes great rewards.

The two bi-fems that we have met and played with, both were not through swingers channels. The key to both is paying close attention to the lady, what she says, and what she does and to be patient.

Good luck!

S

[absingleman]

It is not hard to meet single women who are open to threesome or group play outside of the usual swinger circles. In fact, it is much easier than you think. Once you get past the "Is he/she/they axe murderers or just freaks like I want to be for tonight?" point in her mind, many of the women you meet are willing to entertain the idea of experimenting sexually. The trick is not to overwhelm them, and not to bore them.

As a single man, what I have found to work is to slowly guide the conversation towards sex. Most of the time, especially if there is another woman there (as a couple that is almost always going to be the case) once sex is even hinted, the single woman is going to take the lead in telling about her sexual experiences or asking about yours. From there it is much easier, especially if you've been talking about sex for twenty or thirty minutes after you met, to make suggestions about what you like and would like to try. If she gets that far away look in her eyes at one of your suggestions and smiles, there's a chance she might take you up on an invitation to try what you suggested. If she turns pale, just say "but I/we only think of doing that with a few select friends" and back off and move to safer topics. Usually that comment will stick in her mind and open her up to the idea when she is in a safer place (like at home in bed a couple of nights later) and you might get a call where she says "Remember that thing we talked about a few nights ago? Well, I was just thinking..."

tip for single men:

Its very important NOT to back a single woman into a corner when approaching No Strings Attached sex of any kind. Many times the environment you are in will make her extremely vulnerable to your sexual advances, but even if she appears to take the lead, later she may feel like she was pressured into accepting your advances if you come on too strong or don't give her time to think. THAT is where most of us fail with women. Being assertive does not mean giving the woman no chance to say NO! I know many popular dating books say "Once she says maybe keep going until she says yes", but that is a lie. In legal terms, that is sexual harassment at best and date rape if you are unlucky. The best way to get a repeat performance is to make sure SHE knows SHE made the decision to sleep with you, not that she felt she had no choice.

stay cool.

[sweetsucksex]

my problem is (and maybe I should say "our") we dont get to get out and meet any single bi-fems.
My husband is an over the road truck driver and i tend to the little ones so it is hard to get out and meet anyone.
I was looking for a place on line to begin to talk and get familiar with another women but generally you have to pay for this service, if the option is free, generally you are not allow to post what you are looking for.
I know the white bi fems are out there but i am limited to options.
I must say it is not in my comfort zone to be with a couple or a single man.
So, where can one search for the opportunity to get to know a real person looking for what you are?

[VegasLee]

Our many years of being at the club has shown us the folowing when it comes to Single women.

We have about 15 regular single women each Saturday night. Most of them are bi but most of them are looking for men to play with, not couples or other bi girls. We also normally have four or five that are not regulars on a normal Saturday night. We have found the same thing with them, they don't appear to be there to hook up with couples or other women, they are also chasing the guys.

A FEW of them will at times hook up with a couple but not most of the time.

There are a couple of them that are drama queens but less then many of the drama queen couples that we meet on a regular basis. Out of the 15 I would say we have two or three of them that we have to "talk to" every couple of months about their mouth or actions but that is no more then couples we have to talk to about the same things.

We don't go out looking for single women but if we did after what we have seen over the years I believe we would look outside of the club for them if we wanted them.

This is just our experience over the years, your mileage may vary.

[mosmis84]

iapr,

I just wanted to assure you that my feathers weren't ruffled and I hope I didn't come off sounding like they were.

I guess the drama question baffles me because the people I meet and play with at clubs aren't in my life long enough for there to be any drama.

Granted, I would like to have a closer social circle in the swinger community, I would love to find a dozen or so people that get together regularly. But, I am a tad shy and pretty new but I hope to keep branching out.

As far as finding single females in the vanilla world, it would seem that it would take even more of an investment of time and small talk to find someone that clicks right. It seems like in the swinger world, your odds would be better since everyone is there for the same reason. (But, I have avoided the vanilla single world so I am by no means an expert).

Again, no offence taken on my end, I just do a quick personal check to make sure I am not a crazed orgre. I'm OK!

[two42lovers]

Sometimes we scratch our heads... are we just lucky? There is a common perception single women are rare in the lifestyle, but we haven't encountered it.

We've been playing since Oct 2006, using swinger sites or Craig's List to meet people. (No clubs where we live.) Our main focus is couples, by far, but we do occaisionally play with singles. To this point, we've met and played with three single women through AFF, three through SLS, and two others through CL. The two from CL are not "swingers", per se, but are open to FMF.

So... in 18 months we've made friends with eight single women (if I can count correctly - still drinking my morning coffee, lol!) All have became on-going play friends, some more often, some less so. There are others we've met, but we didn't play. In the case of CL, we saw their posts and responded, but all the women we've met on the swing sites have contacted us first.

We've thought about picking up bisexual women in bars, and we've dabbled at it, but it seems very common for such women to flirt heavily but not really be open to taking things further. Maybe you just have to be very, very patient? (Maybe after multiple meetings?) If you have the time and inclination, it could work, but for us it seems so much easier to find single women online.

[absingleman]

Originally Posted by two42lovers

Sometimes we scratch our heads... are we just lucky? There is a common perception single women are rare in the lifestyle, but we haven't encountered it.

We've been playing since Oct 2006, using swinger sites or Craig's List to meet people. (No clubs where we live.) Our main focus is couples, by far, but we do occaisionally play with singles. To this point, we've met and played with three single women through AFF, three through SLS, and two others through CL. The two from CL are not "swingers", per se, but are open to FMF.

So... in 18 months we've made friends with eight single women (if I can count correctly - still drinking my morning coffee, lol!) All have became on-going play friends, some more often, some less so. There are others we've met, but we didn't play. In the case of CL, we saw their posts and responded, but all the women we've met on the swing sites have contacted us first.

We've thought about picking up bisexual women in bars, and we've dabbled at it, but it seems very common for such women to flirt heavily but not really be open to taking things further. Maybe you just have to be very, very patient? (Maybe after multiple meetings?) If you have the time and inclination, it could work, but for us it seems so much easier to find single women online.

You are lucky...and I hate you two for it LOL