Am I a Swinger?

[TarPy]

Hey all,

First post here, but long time board poster at lots of other places. I'll start off with the obvious, I'm 20 and male. Ok, so I'm pretty young, but that being said, I'm not even close to a virgin, and have had a few really meaningful relationships, and a few quick ones that didn't mean much to either of us. The final major factor is that I run porn sites. This may not apply yet, but I'll get there.

I've gotten a bit more of an introduction to the swinger lifestyle through many of the friends I have met through work. Obviously, the porn industry has a few more swingers than your average office (or does it?), but I have to say that I'm not quite sure how I feel about swinging. I'm not even sure I'm 100% certain about what the true definition of a swinger is, or how it feels to practice the lifestyle.

Now, to what I do know. I started with the usual dating boyfriend/girlfriend type of relationship, but I always wanted to cheat. Not that I wanted to fuck other women (well that too), but more to the point, I wanted to be with other women. I would hang out one on one with them, go to dinner with them, and generally hang out. And things usually got to the point where I would find myself in a situation that I felt I should initiate some kind of physical relationship with them as well, however couldn't, as I felt limited by my partner.

The part about staying faithful and honest to the person I was with was never very difficult. It's clear to me that if I engage in physical relationships outside of us, that she should be afforded the same opportunity, because that's only fair. Furthermore, I never really felt that I sought out these other side relationships specifically because my bf/gf relationship was lacking anything, but that my other relationships only added to how much I enjoyed my life. It wasn't that they gave me something my gf didn't but should've, but often offered something that my gf couldn't. Not a physical restraint, but rather a natural one, in that one girl would be wild and spontaneous, and the other more reserved, and planned, or a rough and tumble woodsy girl verses a home and garden domestic type. (Before I continue, this was not all these girls were, most of them had all the dimensions you would normally see in anyone, just that these were the major differences, and highlight the inability of any ONE girl from being wild, and reserved, blond and brunette, goofy and serious, and so forth)

To make matters worse, I found that I couldn't come up with a good logical or rational reason why I couldn't be physically intimate with both girls, besides that I refused to "cheat" my existing partner out of the opportunity to do the same, or to disapprove and end things. Either way I felt that she should be informed of whatever I wanted to do. So, after the end of that relationship, I decided to just date. I told every girl that we weren't exclusive, and while they rarely knew the other girls, or even how many other girls there were, but they all knew that there were definately other girls. That period lasted about three years, and a few of the girls ended up dating me for over a year, which was odd for me. Sure, not with the same regularity that your general high school girlfriend would see her man, but I tended to think that was a little overdone and more because they SHOULD than because they wanted to. That aside, I still talk to many of these girls, and on occasion we meet up and fool around. I've found that during this time, I never felt that I couldn't be there emotionally, physically, or platonically for all or any of them, and that it was like having another child or best friend. It didn't take from anyone, there was just more love, and fun on the whole for me, and the girls I was with. I also found that I could be a much better partner to those girls, because I wasn't hiding anything, and never felt that our relationship was lacking.

From time to time we would discontinue things because they had a boyfriend, or were conflicted about it, but I was always honest, and although it wasn't always their ideal way to have things, I live my life for me, and they had all the pieces involved to make an informed decision on whether they wanted to share their lives with me, or not.

Then I met Meghan. I love Meghan, it was my last shot at monogamy. I tried, I really really tried, but even though she was my steady gf for over 9 months, and I didn't cheat on her, I felt that I was putting a constraint on my life that I couldn't rationally accept. I love new people, I love old friends, and I can't bear the thought of not meeting or making an old friend back when they were new, or passing up on new friends that could become old friends. And most of all I couldn't stand the thought of putting artificial limits on an existing relationship, because some other relationship had been deemed more important or more worthy than the one I had with another girl. So, that being the case, and my decision being that I can't understand monogamy, or that lifestyle that we should split. It was kinda inevitable anyhow due to geography and a few other things, so we've changed our relationship, and although internally things feel the same as they always did and are great, externally I can now be with other people without decieving Meghan, or cheating her. However, hurting her may be a possibility so I'm keeping it low key for a while anyhow.


That's where I am. I'm not a swinger, or at least haven't considered myself one, and the whole married couple thing still is somewhat confusing to me. However, I tend to believe that marriage is an artificial constraint on human relationships that are generally boundless from my limited experience. However, from my past 2 years in the industry, I've met a lot of different people, and become more accustomed to the idea of swinging. However, that being said, I'm not sure I want to be married ever. I'm already financially secure as I've been running my own successful businesses since I was 15, and now make a six figure income, so I'm trying to decide how to live the rest of my life, and this is one of my major questions right now.

So, the questions...

Many of you speak about being a male swinger, because you had an other, and now you don't. What if you never have an other, can you still be considered a swinger?


Is that acceptable in swingerland? (ok, it sounds like I was mocking, but really, I just thought it sounded cooler than swinger society, or by swingers' societal conventions)

Also, by virtue of my mailing lists from work, I'm often invited to gangbangs, and swinging events... uh, I'm not sure I know the question, but I don't quite feel like I'm part of that crowd yet, so I don't want to just show up, and be like, hey, um, yea, I'm here, so, um, like, now what?

How much of a personal relationship does a single male usually have in the relationship? Is he merely a sex toy and stunt cock, or a part of the relationship in some non-conventional way?

Also, I feel guilty about starting relationships with people that don't share my outlook on marriage and life, in that no matter what I say, they never seem to quit believing that maybe they will by my "one," I mean sure, it makes it easy for me to get laid, but it doesn't feel right when I know they are trying to become something I will never have... my "one"... not because I'm un-pairable, because me and Meghan make a great pair, it's just that I can't think of a reason not to be a part of a few really great pairs. Is there any sort of community built around people that don't want to marry and aren't married that can enjoy open relationships?

I dunno, that's a whole lot for one post, and I always hate my first post, because I don't want to come off as insecure, cocky, or stupid, but I've learned that who I am will eventually come out on boards, so this post won't mean much eventually, but I just wanted to know more about the lifestyle, and figured this would be a good start.

Thanks

TarPy

[TarPy]

Also, I'm not sure if this post if appropriate for this board, because I'm not sure I am or will ever be a swinger, but I wanted to ask swingers, so um yea.

TarPy

[OhioCouple]

Hi TarPy, first off welcome to the board.

You bring up some interesting points and I have re-read your posting twice. As an overall assesment what you are experiencing in my opinion is just trying to discover who you are and what you want out of life. Even if you had not included your age, I would have come to the same conclusion based on what you have written.

I have come to believe that the term "Swingers" is a catch all phrase for those that have sex with more than one person at any given time. It is what the meaning of it is to the individual that makes the difference. I don't feel that the porn industry has more people that fall under the catagory of "swinging" as I personally do not see them as swingers by my definition. There are many people that read or view porn that are not interested in more than just that. There are many that participate in the making of porn that do it because that is how they earn their living.

"Swinging" for us was a mutual desire. Not one we do because we don't want to cheat. I don't know how it is for singles since I never was a single in a swinger environment but as a couple it became something that we were interested in to add to our relationship. Granted the fantasy of it began by viewing and reading porn but it was not the deciding factor. With a couple (at least for us) it is more complex. There were many issues that we had to look at and find the balance for ourselves before beginning to do so.

For instance at this time we are taking a break from meeting with play friends as it is something we are doing for ourselves in order to get our lives back in order. We both feel that we could walk away entirely and never have any regrets for having shared our bodies with someone outside of our marriage nor do I think either of us would seek someone on the sly outside of our relationship just because we enjoyed having sex with other people.

I think the difference here is that we are older, we both have been married and single before, we either cheated or were cheated on in past relationships and cheating or fooling around with someone is not an option for either of us because of our commitment to each other. I think it is a mind set that comes with maturity and we all reach it at different ages. There are some members here on this board that have been marrried 20-30 plus years and have been swinging for just as long. The thing is they can walk away from it today too with no regrets or no impluse to seek sex from outside their commitment to each other. For us our maturity level and mindset regarding "swinging" came much later than theirs even though we are the same ages as many of the long term married people are.

I personally feel that singles have a place in the lifestyle and that many do have the same mindest as couples, (when it comes to swinging) but I would have to also say that it must be much more enjoyable as a couple since you have someone to share it with.

That all said, keep exploring what you want out of life and someday you may just meet that Mrs. Right, the one who will make you give pause to anything that might hurt her. As long as you are upfront with the women you are dating now, I don't see any problem with it. Whether you are single or a couple, honesty is always the best policy.

Lori

[TarPy]

hrmm... your post is useful and brings up a few points, so I want to mill over them before I shoot from the hip. However, I did want to clarify things.

I CLEARLY understand that pornstars are not automatically swingers. They can be in it for many many different reasons. Most are not swingers... Many of them are pornstars with boyfriends, and you could fuck the girl on camera, but kiss her on the cheek off the set and either she'll slap you, or he will.

No, in fact I don't confuse those 2 at all. However, there are quite a number of swingers (more so in the amateur market) that fuck one group of people on camera, and a whole different group as a matter of lifestyle. Yes, I know that much of a distinction and it's fairly easy to see.

However, there are many amateur sites and such that their paysites operate more like a swinger's club membership, and many of them have sex with their member's and their husbands and wives. I'm not talking about the 40 year old married guy with kids who hides his porn from his wife kinda pornstar or relationship, but more about letters singed by couples that have a particular interest in a kinda swinger voyeurism/exhibitionism thing more than anything.

As far as my maturity, no doubt that I don't yet have fully set goals, but I'm not talking about this from a sexual standpoint of merely getting some easy sex. Hell, sex is easy enough for me to get from around my house, or with any number of girls that do shoots with us. More over, I seek the same kind of relationship that I have with Meghan, but more of them that carry on simultaneously.

TarPy

[ATAK]

We're straying a bit from the original topic, but since this thread has already started, I'll put my 2 cents in...

It seems to me that TarPy may be what is called Polyamorous.
Polyamory
The general term used to describe all forms of multi-partner relating.

The following explanation is taken from the

Loving More website:

We provide information and inspiration for people who are interested in evolving sustainable relationships and new relationship options. It is our belief that monogamy as a relationship style can be a valid choice but there are also other time tested, legitimate options for intimacy, sexuality, and family life that are not allowed in the country by law and by custom.

In short, this website supports people who hold the belief that it is possible to create, sustain, and maintain a healthy, emotionally committed relationship with more than one person while not limiting themselves sexually to one individual. After reading TarPy's posts I feel that he may fall into this category. I hope you find some information on that site that may be useful to you. And I hope we have also been of some help.

ATAK

[JustAskJulie]

I felt Tarpy's questions were worth a topic of their own to address them.

First off, I have been in the adult internet (amateur and non) market for gosh.. close to 6 years now, so I can address some of the questions you have on that regard.

You are right there are a lot of amateurs on the internet who are real swingers. There are also a lot of amateurs on the internet who pretend to be real swingers for the camera. They will do whatever when the camera is on and rolling but if it's not going they aren't playing and they aren't real swingers. A lof ot the latter is what you see (and are invited to) at conventions. So if you are invited, go ahead and go. Chances are you might just get stuck on the sidelines watching and if someone minds you watching they will say so (I'm one of those who will and has on many occasions said so). All of this has a lot to do with why I got out of the amateur market. There are many more that do it for the camera than there are that do it because they enjoy it and I found myself becoming one of those who was doing it for the camera, so I stopped and now I only do it for the enjoyment with no cameras present.

Most of the parties/orgies/etc that you are invited to during conventions and such are put on for marketing purposes. They invite others from the industry as a way of saying "look what we do!", "Look what's on our site" and "this is why you should promote our site". And they do it to network, so that people will know them and know who they are.

To the question of your inability to be monogamous. I have always believed and still hold to this that if you are with the ONE person you are meant to be with and truly love them you will be able to committ to that person totally (even tho you may not have to). My thoughts here are that you are young and still maturing. When I was 20, the way you described yourself would have pretty much totally described me. You will most likely mature and change a lot in the next 5 to 10 years and in that time may change many of your attitudes towards relationships.

Are you a swinger? From what you've described I'd say no. You are just someone who enjoys freedome and doesn't like to be tied down to one relationship (sexual or otherwise). Enjoy your youth and enjoy that you are dealing with women young enough to be ok with the lack of committment. 5 years from now those same women will be looking to settle down and won't appreciate it quite so much.

[TarPy]

Well, yes, I would certainly believe a decent number of them are fake about what they do. That's easy to believe, and I've seen lots of that. However, I refer more to the couple I actually know through porn more than the people's sites and that.

[4sum]

Okay, I've thought about this a little, and ask that you try not to read any finger pointing or condescention into what I'm about to lay down (pun intended).

There is a humonous chasm at times between what pleases our bodies and what sustains our souls. There are people for whom this is intuitive. There are people for whom this is subliminal. There are people who just don't have a clue and don't care. Most of us are in category two, and finding a way to structure our physical needs with our requirements in a soul mate was (and still is) a process that we have largely succeded at.

Were we to have tried swinging in our twenties, I doubt we would have been able to make a run of it for as long as we have (20 years and counting), but the same can be said of other factors in our lives as well.

Some people "get it" right off the bat, and can swing early on in life or a relationship, and that's fine, but it is the less common situation from those of us clustered at the center of the bell curve.

I think the longing for a deep relationship in your life is conflicting with a need for exploration. But it may also be true that your sense of entitlement is out of whack with your willingness to compromise.

I doubt that many of us here would have gotten as far in our relationships without a heavy dose of compromise! Look around at some of the threads...it's Taking One For The Team, and We've Been Thinking About This For A While...kinds of things that speak of the dialog that goes on in a healthy relationship. It also means you may not get exactly what you want...in fact you probably won't get exactly what you want even if you find your "soulmate".

Are you poly? Hey, maybe you are. I guess I'm probably more poly than swinger, but there's sufficient scope in the lexicon to make me feel equally uncomfortable wearing either mantle.

Bottom line is what do you want in a relationship and what are you willing to give to get it. I'd be more concerned with getting these questions answered before I felt the need to spend intellectual capital on whether you're a swinger or not.