Tired of being the "Nice Single Male"....

[Ruff]

Surprisingly enough the title of this thread has nothing to do with couples. The reason I am tired is some single females in the lifestyle.
This is off the top of my head so I might add to this thread later but for now I'll just give 2 examples.

Being the thankless chaperone : takes a single female friend to her 2nd swing party (1st since her divorce) she plays once and socializes the rest of the evening. During this part of the night the single male friend plays bodyguard as she was being harassed by another male @ the party. Single male friend even asks a married male friend to look out for her when he has to leave for extended periods. Long story short there's nothing like having a single female ask you to look out for her and then finding out she promptly went out and fucked the same guy, to make you feel incredibly stupid. (not too mention how explaining to the married male friend why he had to guard a woman who later gladly fucked the guy he was keeping away)

Shoulder to lean on : single woman who's worried about attending a party asks that single male friend look out for her during the party, doesn't want to be all alone in case guys don't want to play with her. Proceeds to spend all night in a room with a married male, then spends a good half hour kneeling in front of a couch going down on same married male in the living room while the wife watches. Then a few minutes later wants to tongue kiss the single male friend she asked to look out for her even tho she's ignored him the whole night. (in case this gets misread the ignoring part is fine, parties are big and people get lost but attempting to kiss a "friend" after spending 30 mins on your knees for another guy is just plain bad form.)

I know most reading this will believe both examples are about the single women fucking said guys but that is not the case. If either single female had simply talked to their friend (as they had before the parties) no one needed to have had an uncomfortable or embarassing moment. Proving that single females can be just as thoughtless as single males in the lifestyle.

[Tybee Swing]

It sounded like in both of these cases, the women were inexperienced or newbees with the swinging/party scene, for the most part.

New or not, I'd tell them how you felt and where it went wrong for you. Also, what you were uncomfortable with (her trying to kiss you after going down on another guy, for example). If you don't tell them, they won't know. It's very possible they don't have any idea that they did anything wrong. Maybe in the "bodyguard" situation, she wasn't looking so much for a guard to protect her from everyone, but rather a companion to be there with her as she eased gradually into the situation and then engaged with a playmate after she was comfortable. A woman alone is like a chunk of sharkbait for the overly-aggressive types, but a woman with a friend is approached in a more respectful way.

If you tell them how you felt, they can learn from it. Also, if you engage in a conversation about the whole thing, you'll learn their perspective and possibly learn that they either didn't understand the "rules" or just had a different interpretation of the events. By doing this, maybe you can continue with them and have a much better experience next time.

[Ruff]

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

If you tell them how you felt, they can learn from it. Also, if you engage in a conversation about the whole thing, you'll learn their perspective and possibly learn that they either didn't understand the "rules" or just had a different interpretation of the events. By doing this, maybe you can continue with them and have a much better experience next time.

What you're saying is very true and if they were swing partners that's exactly what I'd do. However since I am the single male friend, I really would rather not put myself inthe situation again then sit down and have a talk with them. There are other examples I might drop into the thread later but suffice it to say overall it really isn't worth it trying to be a "decent guy" in the overall scheme of things while single. Boils down to the basic fact that you still have to look out for your own interests because really no one else is thinking about you.
(BTW my married male friend never mentioned to his wife about the bodyguard incident... thankfully because she would have definitely handled it differently and not in any kind of friendly way lol )

[Edison Carter]

Susan here--Well, she viewed you as her protector, not a sex partner. Then she tried to view you as a 'make-out' partner which was 'bad form.' Ignorance and bad manners on her part. When single, I did go to a swing party with a male friend who was my 'protector' for the evening. He was also my first fuck of the night, but I suffer from neither ignorance or bad manners. Unfortunately, women who behave this way just don't 'get it'.

[EternallySingle]

I've been the "Nice Guy" on several occasions after my first two swing encounters in college and I learned one thing that still bothers me 20 years later. If you let them, single women WILL take advantage of your generosity, then ACT offended when you say you want the same thing they gave to someone else for free. It is usually an act, and if you are assertive, honest, and consistent without whining, they will ususally think about why they trust you with every other area of their life except sex. Then you either do it or lose her as a friend. Either way you are better off.

Were you used, Russ? Yes, you were in the first example(unless the first and second occurred on the same night with the same woman, there were two different situations with to totally different trains of thought going through the woman's mind). You were used by your friend because she trusted you. You said she had sex with the guy she asked you to protect her from. Well, in the beginning she didn't feel ready to have sex and he came on a little stronger than she wanted early in the evening. A little later, after she had probably talked to some other women who had been with him, she decided to give him a chance to make up for his bad behavior. Where were you when all this happened? If you reacted the way I did the first time I chaperoned a single woman at a swing club, you were pissed that you spent most of your night watching her back then was left alone while everyone else, including her, partied.

What do you do next time? Talk to her ahead of time and tell her that the two of you either work as a couple because you cannot make your own connections if you are holding her hand while she goes hunting for herself, or you tell her that you will be close enough to help her out if she gets in real trouble but you are going to be on your own and she will be on her own.

As for the second situation, thats a personal thing. I carry a small bottle of Scope for just such an emergency. I'm still trying to explain the bottle thats always in my van to the people at church. I do camp, so most assume its part of my camping supplies. I keep my tent in the back of my van all the time, so...

Being trusted enough for a woman to ask you to escort her to a swing club says a lot about your demeanor. Not being willing to escort her again because of how she acted (she is single and you ARE JUST a friend) says some potentially bad things about your character. You are single. She is single. You both have only yourselves to answer to, and you only owe each other common decency. Where she was wrong is that she took it for granted that you would find someone after she hooked up. She's probably doesn't understand fully that seeing her leave you for some guy you just met at the club might turn the other women off to you, especially if you spent most of the night trying to get between the two of them (doesn't matter that she asked you too).

But that was inexperience on her part. You're a man. Inexperience isn't an excuse for us. How you handle these kind of situations tell more about how mature you are than how experienced you are. And in the end, a man that is mature but inexperienced seems to be more attractive to women than a man that is experienced but not mature.

Thats my take on it. You didn't do anything wrong, but try to be a little more flexible. And let her know that you went there in hopes of hooking up with her, not just to get in to a swing club. If thats all you wanted, you should have either paid the extra bucks to get in on your own or drive the extra miles to find a club you can go to alone. You have the trust part down, now work on the assertive part. Those beautiful weirdo creatures want both from us, and no two want them in the same quantity.

damn. I thought I had the long winded posts out of my system.

[Ruff]

Originally Posted by EternallySingle

Were you used, Russ? Yes, you were in the first example(unless the first and second occurred on the same night with the same woman, there were two different situations with to totally different trains of thought going through the woman's mind).

While I appreciate the response you did miss several essential points...
It's "Ruff" not russ
And just as it is posted, they were 2 seperate incidents

Originally Posted by EternallySingle

If you let them, single women WILL take advantage of your generosity, then ACT offended when you say you want the same thing they gave to someone else for free. It is usually an act, and if you are assertive, honest, and consistent without whining, they will ususally think about why they trust you with every other area of their life except sex. Then you either do it or lose her as a friend. Either way you are better off.

U did see the parts of the post where I stated I was the Single Male Friend? I wasn't there 2 play with either female. (just to clear this part up, I've played with both women b4 and after the incidents, at their request not mine, having sex with them has never been an issue)

Originally Posted by EternallySingle

You were used by your friend because she trusted you. You said she had sex with the guy she asked you to protect her from. Well, in the beginning she didn't feel ready to have sex and he came on a little stronger than she wanted early in the evening. A little later, after she had probably talked to some other women who had been with him, she decided to give him a chance to make up for his bad behavior. Where were you when all this happened? If you reacted the way I did the first time I chaperoned a single woman at a swing club, you were pissed that you spent most of your night watching her back then was left alone while everyone else, including her, partied.

What do you do next time? Talk to her ahead of time and tell her that the two of you either work as a couple because you cannot make your own connections if you are holding her hand while she goes hunting for herself, or you tell her that you will be close enough to help her out if she gets in real trouble but you are going to be on your own and she will be on her own.

As stated in the previous posts I had a married friend look out for her when I couldn't be there because obviously I was enjoying the party myself. My friends know me well enough to know there's no worry about me abandoning them.

Originally Posted by EternallySingle

Thats my take on it. You didn't do anything wrong, but try to be a little more flexible. And let her know that you went there in hopes of hooking up with her, not just to get in to a swing club. If thats all you wanted, you should have either paid the extra bucks to get in on your own or drive the extra miles to find a club you can go to alone. You have the trust part down, now work on the assertive part. Those beautiful weirdo creatures want both from us, and no two want them in the same quantity.

U definitely leapt to a few conclusions despite statements in the OP to the contrary. Once again I was the Single Male Friend, I took her to the Swing Party to get HER laid and as her friend I have taken her out various times and spent plenty of money on her as any friend would when your friend needs you 2 be there. In both cases I've had to explain to my female friends that my NOT jumping them when I've had them naked in my bed is due to our friendship and not a lack of attraction. There's no need to address the "assertive" part of your post because U were assuming I was trying to "hook up" with both.
I do appreciate you recognizing their missteps (even with the mistaken assumptions) however as I stated I have other experiences to draw from in making my "No more Nice Single Male" decision, not just their level of maturity and/or experience.

[Chicup]

Reading your OP with your response to ET I think the main problem is you are overly sensitive.

The first woman changes her mind and made you feel stupid in front of some other guy? Who would have thought that women change their mind!

The second, I wouldn't have kissed her either but I'd have been pretty up front about it. 'Honey you just had some other guys cock in your mouth, we can kiss later.'.

This isn't much of a 'being overly nice' type of issue that I can see.

[Ruff]

Originally Posted by Chicup

Reading your OP with your response to ET I think the main problem is you are overly sensitive.

The first woman changes her mind and made you feel stupid in front of some other guy? Who would have thought that women change their mind!

The second, I wouldn't have kissed her either but I'd have been pretty up front about it. 'Honey you just had some other guys cock in your mouth, we can kiss later.'.

This isn't much of a 'being overly nice' type of issue that I can see.

Actually, no I wasn't made to "look stupid in front of some other guy", as stated in the OP I asked a friend of mine to look out for her when I couldn't be there. As anyone who has been asked for such a favor knows, you get asked by a panicked or agitated woman not a woman shopping for shoes, trying to make a decision. As stated in the OP a simple conversation could've alleviated the entire situation. Both my friend and I immediately recognized her misstep at our expense for what it was (being thoughtless) and left it alone.
"Overly nice", "overly sensitive" ? I don't think so, if that were the case I probably would've had some sort of immediate reaction rather than consider avoiding such situations some time later after a number of different experiences.
Recognizing a friend's faux pas isn't being sensitive (overly or otherwise) it's being honest with yourself about a friend, just because sex is involved doesn't mean bad form isn't still bad form.

[curiousagain]

Originally Posted by Ruff

Long story short there's nothing like having a single female ask you to look out for her and then finding out she promptly went out and fucked the same guy, to make you feel incredibly stupid.

Originally Posted by Ruff

Actually, no I wasn't made to "look stupid in front of some other guy",

I'm thinking maybe that is the area of confusion.

I think anybody, not just a woman can change their mind but if anyone ask for protection from someone else then in the same night decides to screw them they shouldn't be surprised when that protection is no longer available.

[Ruff]

Originally Posted by curiousagain

I'm thinking maybe that is the area of confusion.

I think anybody, not just a woman can change their mind but if anyone ask for protection from someone else then in the same night decides to screw them they shouldn't be surprised when that protection is no longer available.

I agree with your summation curiousagain. After all it was simply her being thoughtless, a momentary lapse in judgement not a capital offense as some seem to have misread in my criticism in the OP.

And just so no one confuses the 2 quotes, neither I nor my married male friend were present when she fucked the guy. My married male friend didn't even know until I told him. So no one looked stupid to anyone. It was all over and done with hours earlier before the sexual encounter was discussed. My friend and I FELT foolish for "protecting" her from a guy she let flip her around directly after he'd done another woman. The whole thing just seemed silly to us and more than a bit confusing.

[EternallySingle]

Originally Posted by Ruff

I agree with your summation curiousagain. After all it was simply her being thoughtless, a momentary lapse in judgement not a capital offense as some seem to have misread in my criticism in the OP.

And just so no one confuses the 2 quotes, neither I nor my married male friend were present when she fucked the guy. My married male friend didn't even know until I told him. So no one looked stupid to anyone. It was all over and done with hours earlier before the sexual encounter was discussed. My friend and I FELT foolish for "protecting" her from a guy she let flip her around directly after he'd done another woman. The whole thing just seemed silly to us and more than a bit confusing.

I apologize for calling you Russ. I shouldn't have responded after only reading the post once. At 2:00 in the morning. After suffering from insomnia for two days.

Your last comment is almost exactly what I was talking about in my first post. At the beginning of the evening she thought this guy you were protecting her from was a jerk. THEN she saw him in action and decided she wanted some of what he had. It was probably scary for her(was it her first time?) being approached so directly in such a sexually charged atmosphere and she took advantage of your loyalty to give her time to get comfortable. Thats just human nature. Where she went wrong is she didn't take into account that you might not understand what made her change her mind. Where you went wrong is that you didn't tell her why you felt the way you do. It doesn't matter that the two of you have had sex before. She did not even acknowledge your feelings or your efforts to protect her, and that made you angry when you thought about it later.

If you don't tell her what you feel she did wrong, no amount of advise from anyone else will change how the two of you relate in the future. Also, if you leave her wondering why you won't escort her to parties anymore, she'll make up her own reasons and all of them will make you look like a typical single male jerk. In this lifestyle, it only takes only one person to put that doubt in a dozen people's minds. So its better for her to think you are a jerk for something you say than for her to think you are a jerk for something she thinks.

Confront her, NICELY, about what you think she did, how it made you feel, and get her take on the situation. Most likely she doesn't see the situation as one where you and a friend wasted your time keeping that guy off of her, but that she appreciated the fact that you gave her time to get comfortable and saw nothing wrong with having sex with him later, since that was what everyone was there to do.

[Ruff]

Originally Posted by EternallySingle

I apologize for calling you Russ. I shouldn't have responded after only reading the post once. At 2:00 in the morning. After suffering from insomnia for two days.

thas okay, it was a nice chuckle...

Originally Posted by EternallySingle

Where she went wrong is she didn't take into account that you might not understand what made her change her mind. Where you went wrong is that you didn't tell her why you felt the way you do. It doesn't matter that the two of you have had sex before. She did not even acknowledge your feelings or your efforts to protect her, and that made you angry when you thought about it later.

Was never angry, was not even surprised. Just as in the vanilla world when a male is friends with women he will frequently find out that dick (evn random dick) trumps friendship every time.

Originally Posted by EternallySingle

If you don't tell her what you feel she did wrong, no amount of advise from anyone else will change how the two of you relate in the future. Also, if you leave her wondering why you won't escort her to parties anymore, she'll make up her own reasons and all of them will make you look like a typical single male jerk. In this lifestyle, it only takes only one person to put that doubt in a dozen people's minds. So its better for her to think you are a jerk for something you say than for her to think you are a jerk for something she thinks.

Confront her, NICELY, about what you think she did, how it made you feel, and get her take on the situation. Most likely she doesn't see the situation as one where you and a friend wasted your time keeping that guy off of her, but that she appreciated the fact that you gave her time to get comfortable and saw nothing wrong with having sex with him later, since that was what everyone was there to do.

Once agan since she is not my swing partner there's no need to discuss her misstep, it happened, end of story. Rehashing it won't correct anything and avoiding the situations which will invariably produce the same results works so much better than having unnecessary "interventions". I understand where the "talk 2 her" point of view comes from but she's a friend not a partner, so that is an option I can leave alone. Single male simply can't confront every female friend that's gonna choose dick 1st, sometimes you just gotta "cut bait".... U have enough single female friends (in & out of the lifestyle) and U'll realize the practical nature of this.

[Tom4Fun]

Stop being nice and get your balls back into shape..

[Ruff]

Originally Posted by Tom4Fun

Stop being nice and get your balls back into shape..

I'd 4gotten about this thread... but I see U've read very little of it...

[Tom4Fun]

No, I read it. Its simple really. No offense, I was joking, but in the end, you have to stop being "nice."