My own opinion on cheating husbands

[TeamSoBe]

A lot of "single" guys who are not really single like Bootsie and Rkingston just continue to misunderstand why they are unwelcome in swinging. There are lots of reasons why swingers in general resent cheating husbands that call themselves "single males". This post isn't about those reasons, this post is about my reasons for resenting them. I am the husband half of a swinging married couple. We are a couple that loves MMF.

Cheating guys, the reason why I personally resent you so much is because I put a lot of work into my situation. I spent the time to get to know myself and to get over the Madonna/Whore complex that keeps you guys from allowing your wives to swing with you. I spent years of my life looking for a sexually adventurous woman to spend my life with. Once I found her I put the ground work into opening up with her and communicating with her and sharing in the decision to explore. I spent the time on the emotional rollercoaster that you ride when you watch your woman fuck another guy. I put the effort into building the trust necessary for her to watch me fucking another woman.

The reason why I personally resent you is because I did all of that work and I am not interested in sharing the fruits of my labor with some jerk who wants the sex without the effort.

Some of you have a Madonna/Whore complex and you can't deal with your own wives fucking other people. You're obviously treating my wife as the whore if you fuck her at a swing party, right? You think of my wife as a dirty slut while you're fucking her and then you go back to the angelic mother of your children and I'm supposed to be cool with you thinking of my wife that way? Fuck you, she's too good for you.

Some of you didn't sort out your priorities when you were young and you got trapped into a sexually stifling marriages. You think that somehow you're still entitled to a healthy sex life anyway even after missing your opportunity when you had a chance to guide your life. You think that you're entitled to erotic times even though your wife isn't interested, and my wife is where you want to plant your dick. No, my wife's pussy is not your reward for your short-sighted life planning. I knew what was important to me and I prioritized my life and put the effort into getting it.

Some of you just can't bring yourselves to open up with your wives and communicate what you are looking for. I learned to have open and honest relationships with women from an early age. You don't get to skip that entire process so that you can pander to your dick. Not with my wife. My wife is a really cool girl, part of that is because she is capable of communicating openly and honestly about her sexual desires. She's too good for somebody like you who can stick his dick in a girl but who can't talk about it.

Some of you have wives that would never trust you enough to get into swinging with you. Well gee, that's a hole that you dug for yourselves by cheating on your wives. You don't get to bypass that problem by cheating on your wives yet again with my wife. Swinging men look at how guys treat their own wives when we make the decision to allow those guys to fuck our wives. If you lie to your wife in order to show up at the swing party in the first place then you've already failed my test. If you don't have a female partner with you to vouch for your ability to be good to a woman then you're not going anywhere near my wife.

There are lots of reasons why swingers in general dislike cheating husbands, but those are some of mine. This post is the opinion of the swinger husband that you have to get past in order to fuck a swinging wife. Cheating husbands, do yourself a favor and think really hard about my point of view, because I'm the guy that you have to get through in order to get your dick into a swinging woman. You simply have no chance in my case and in the case of many other swinging husbands.

Cheaters, do yourself a favor and visit The Erotic Review or The Big Doggie. Those are sites that will tap you into a culture that supports and encourages the cheating husband. They are resources that will hook you up with really hot women that will be happy to fuck you without telling your wife about it. You'll have to pay for it, but that's the price of pursuing sex in an appropriate manner. For a married guy without a swinging wife, the appropriate way to go about extramarital sex is either illicit affairs or prostitution. It is not appropriate for you to be fucking my wife. I personally could give a rat's ass whether you cheat on your wives or not, I just don't want you doing it by fucking my wife.

Hopefully my point of view as a swinging husband will make things slightly clearer for some cheating husbands. I'm hoping that at least some lurkers out there get something out of this. It would be nice to see the opinion from a swinging wife and maybe also from a swinging single woman on their specific reasons for not wanting to have anything to do with cheating husbands. When we give our ideological reasons for avoiding cheating guys we sound a little abstract. I'm trying to provide specific reasons that are unique to my position as a swinging husband.

[Alura]

Great post, TeamSoBe! Thank you!
Alura

[RnKin Fla]

*Bowing before TeamSoBe's eloquence...*

Ok, you asked for a swinging wife's perspective...here goes (and note that some of these reasons are personal to me):

First, my ex-husband was a dog who cheated on me all the time. I have been there, and don't want to be responsible for another woman's anguish.

Second, I look for honesty in a swing partner, especially someone that I meet on a personal level, rather than in a club. If a guy is cheating on his wife, that shows a basic lack of integrity, and leads me to question his ability to be discreet, or to be telling the truth about anything.

Third, guys who are cheating are most times unhappy with their marriage. I have seen too many cheating guys turn into stalkers when they get a taste of freakiness, which they are not getting from their wives.

Fourth, R and I have worked very hard at building a happy and stable relationship. It took quite a while for us to find each other and even longer for us to build a rock solid foundation that we are secure enough to play from. We want to play with people who are well adjusted, and who can communicate their needs and expectations. Cheating on one's spouse immediately lets the cheater out of that category.

Finally, and perhaps the most pragmatic of reasons, we don't want to be called as witnesses in a divorce proceeding. We have no desire to have our lifestyle be media fodder because one of our play partners was a cheating spouse who got caught.

And please note that all of the above reasons and our prohibition on cheating spouses extends to women as well. And it does not have to be cheating in a marriage - we had one girl approach us who was involved in a "living together" type relationship. She went no further with us, since she was clearly cheating on her chosen partner.

Does that make any sense?

K

[TeamSoBe]

That definitely makes sense, thanks K. I had never even considered the idea that an unstable cheater could turn into a stalker. The nice thing about married swingers (both male and female) is that their behavior is in check at all times becuase their spouses are active participants. A cheating guy is already concealing sex from his wife, so concealing some psycho stalker fascination with a porn goddess isn't such an unrealistic concept either.

This whole issue really does make me feel bad for swinging single guys that really truly are single. We absolutely love MMF threesomes and we're as frustrated as the single guys are by the whole situation. The cheating husbands make it extremely difficult for a couple like us to locate an acceptable single guy because we have to constantly assume that every guy out there is lying since so many of them are. Cheating husbands are an obstable between me and one of my personal favorite swinging activities and that's another reason why I resent them.

[lonelylady2]

What a great response to cheating husbands. I am a single/divorced woman who would love to find a partner to swing with, and I am dismayed at the number of married men who insist that THEY, and only they, can provide me with sexual satisfaction, all on their own!!! They don't seem to understand the words "I'm not interested in married!!!" Sometimes I feel that they take that comment as a challenge. Keep up the good work getting (or trying to get) out the message !!!

[OhioCouple]

This is my take as a newbie swinger and married wife.

First off, TeamSoBe and RnKin Fla, I agree with everything you have both said. I cannot be as eloquent as either of you so I'll give you my personal take here in my less than eloquent way.


I am a married woman and have been involved in a relationship with my husband for nine years, married for three of them. We have invested a lot of time into our relationship and our intimate lives.

When we first met, I was what could be called VERY sexually inhibited. It took years to bring out just how sexual I could be, but my husband loved me for what I was through each phase of development. To this day I do not know if he ever participated in swinging in his past, and I will not ask him, even though I believe he may have. The reason I don't or won't ask him, is that it has no bearing on our relationship. It isn't that I would be upset or jealous, it is just the plain and simple fact that I have no interest to know.

What we have together was cultivated over time and neither of us will allow that to be destroyed by entertaining and allowing a cheating partner, no matter the reason, into our lives. Hell, we frown on those that we have seen do it in our every day lives and they have no knowledge of what we do when the lights go down.

I (Mrs. O) and I will also speak for my husband here as I know it is a fact, would never allow someone who we knew was cheating on their spouse to fuck me or him for that matter. We would not cheapen ourselves or stoop to that level. If we have a sexual issue we work on it, we don't/won't seek to get pleasure elsewhere.

We make a joint choice to share our bodies with other like minded people. No one takes one for the team. We enjoy our new found lifestyle and have met many great friends. What we do is together and lovingly with the full consent of all involved. A married man swinging alone does not have that, therefore you are not ANYONE we would be interested in at all.

So for all the married cheating people out there, move on. Take TeamSoBe's advice and visit those other sites out there. Leave us the hell alone. We don't want to meet you and we don't want to play with you or be a party to your infidelity.

As a quick comment, I was on the receiving end of a cheating spouse in my first marriage. As RnKin Fla said they don't want to be a party to it, I can tell you first hand not only do I not want to be, but I got my justice in a courtroom and it wasn't pretty for anyone that had to testify. So think about that the next time you try to nail someone behind your spouses back.

Mrs. O

[DragonsLair]

Mrs. O, TeamSoBe, RnKin Fla,

You all spoke very well. I have to agree with everything you've said. Cheaters are a threat to the swinging community and the marriages of the swingers. And it doesn't matter if the cheater is male or female. I, too, have no place for them. I've never been cheated on but my husband was. I never want to be a part of someone else's pain. I really don't know that I have much more to add since everyone else expressed my feelings as well.

DragonsLair

He is T. I am A.

[TeamSoBe]

Originally posted by OhioCouple
When we first met, I was what could be called VERY sexually inhibited.

Wow Mrs. O, that's wacky. When I first met Mr. SoBe she was very inhibited also. She's always been a fast girl and she has a looooong list of guys in her past, but she never really enjoyed them. Always said that she got off on the power of being in charge and using a guy but that's all that she got out of it, she never really got off. I used to think that she was just saying that to make me feel important but now that I've personally seen her fuck new guys I have a better understanding of how it works for her. That's one of the great things about swinging for me, I get to see all kinds of facets of her that normally would be off-limits.

I have been working with my wife for four years to try to get her to a point where she can enjoy sex itself, not just the power-trip mind games. She's still one of those women that swingers love to hate, who needs to get screwed up on some substance or another before she can really enjoy sex. She's just too preoccupied with worry and distraction otherwise, and I think some emotional baggage that I'm only just now tapping into. I have managed to teach her to have fun in bed sober, I'm still working on teaching her to have fun having group sex while sober. Either way she still really has the most fun when she's screwed up in the company of people that she trusts, it's just her way.

Back to the point though, why would I be interested in putting all of this work into her and into my relationship with her, only to give it up to some guy who wouldn't know inhibition from emotional baggage if it fell on him? I am the one that put the work into showing up with my wife to a swing club. He's not doing anything but showing up with a dick.

Leaving your wife at home and then showing up and hitting on swinger women is like showing up at a pot luck dinner with no food. You think "Hey, there's plenty of food to go around, one more guy showing up and eating won't leave anybody starving." All of the people who went to the trouble of cooking will be pissed off though, because you're just showing up and taking, you're not contributing anything.

Just another out of a long list of reasons...

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by TeamSoBe
When I first met Mrs. SoBe she was very inhibited also. She's always been a fast girl and she has a looooong list of guys in her past, but she never really enjoyed them. Always said that she got off on the power of being in charge and using a guy but that's all that she got out of it, she never really got off.

I can completely understand this mindset. During my single years, meaning I wasn't committed to any ONE individual or married, (Geesh, I hate that I have to spell it out, yet it seems necessary these days), I sought out men for sex, strictly sex. I wanted to get laid and I wanted to feel desired. It was kind of like knowing that I still had what it took to turn someone on. It was definitely a power trip for me as once I got what I needed, then it was back to business as usual. I am not proud of those years. Rarely did I ever have any sexual satisfaction, it was more mental. I could get as wild as all get out and the strange thing was I gave all outward appearances of being a sexually liberated woman. When in all honesty that was NOT me.

After meeting with my husband I was unable to express myself in a "doing it for your on gratification" sexual manner. Why? Because he desired something more from me. He wanted my innermost part and saw something in me that I couldn't see in myself. He took the time and invested the effort to bring that out in me. Not just sexually, but in all areas of my life.

He is the one who spent countless hours, weeks, months and years to bring my sexuality to where it is now. He deserves and I deserve the utmost of respect when welcoming someone else into our bedroom. WE took the time to get to that point. None of those guys that I fucked just to be fucking for my own selfish interests have any bearing on where I am or who I am today. We have what we have because we worked on it and are still working on it. It is called marriage, and marriage for the right reasons.

We spent six years together, living together for 5 of them, before we ever said "I do".

I can honestly say that we can go out, I can get laid and not come home and feel guilty about it. Married Cheating Spouses cannot do that. I don't have to worry about what my husband is going to think tomorrow or worry that he might *find* out something. I don't have to hide anything. If something happens that he wasn't too cool with then, yeah, we will talk about it, but we aren't going to be talking about it in some lawyers office or Divorce Court. Married/committed swinging alone people cannot do that.

So Mr. SoBe, you are on the right track and I am sure Mrs. SoBe knows it. After all, Rome wasn't built in a day.

Mrs. O

[austxmark]

Great post TeamSoBe. It mirrors my own attitude. The only difference is we will not even play with a truly single guy. I always think he is some loser who can't find a women for himself or maybe find a women who will swing. What we do is stick to 3somes with cpls we know. If we have played with a couple as a foursome and they are willing, we try and play mix and match 3somes. This is only after we known them well.

[TeamSoBe]

Originally posted by austxmark
I always think he is some loser who can't find a women for himself or maybe find a women who will swing.

Yes, that's one of the reasons why I'm a little wary of single guys who get into swinging. Whenever I see a single swinger guy on a web site I always have to wonder what is up with him that he's trying to meet swinger couples instead of getting a girl for himself and having a normal relationship. Everybody has their reasons though, so I'm not even going to try to get into the head of a truly single swinger guy. I have enough problems getting into my wife's head.

The truly single guys that we go after are friends. We like to go after guys that we know in real life when they are between girlfriends or whatever. We know them well enough to know that they aren't losers, and sharing your girl with your buddy is really fun as far as I'm concerned. Not everybody's thing though, obviously.

[uberkraker]

Originally posted by TeamSoBe
Yes, that's one of the reasons why I'm a little wary of single guys who get into swinging. Whenever I see a single swinger guy on a web site I always have to wonder what is up with him that he's trying to meet swinger couples instead of getting a girl for himself and having a normal relationship.

As a single male, and being new here, I hesitated for a while before deciding to respond this thread. After spending several hours reading through postings (with emphasis on the "Single Male" threads) I noticed quite a few messages asking single males "why are you here?" (to paraphrase - I intrepreted the above as such). While I can't tell you why other single swingers aren't out busying themselves having "normal relationships," I can tell you why I'm not.

I like to have wild, passionate and deviant sex. Further, I like to pursue these activities with people that I have more in common with than simple prurient interests. You may be able to find folks like this on a whim hanging out at Level or wherever, but I can assure you that in Northern Virginia it is considerably more difficult to randomly meet people of like mind.

Additionally, it's been my experience that if we share the same viewpoints on sexuality, we're likely to have tons of other things in common as well, and since this is an extension of my social life, that's important to me.

Finally, I just plain like hanging out with swinging couples: most of them are cool and lots of fun. It's not always about the sex itself - sometimes the vibes just aren't right, etc - and no one wants to be a bad lay - but the ones I've been with are always fun to party with, nonetheless.

Why don't I find a girl to have a "normal" relationship with? There are plenty of those candidates out there, but I know what I'm looking for and haven't found it yet. I very much admire the amount of time/energy/effort you've put into building your "house" so to speak. However, not all of us have the level of patience/guts required to do the same. If I ever find a woman who shares my sexual proclivity and completely sweeps me away, I'll marry her and we'll swing together happily ever after. Marrying and trying to "convert" her to a swinging lifestyle after the fact would be a disaster for me - I know myself pretty well.
Just because it was the right perscription for you doesn't mean it's good medicine for everyone else; there are a million and one reasons that folks get involved in this lifestyle. I have mine and you have yours.

Reading though some of the posts here, it seems that everyone has their "war stories" pertaining to unfortunate events that revolved around single males (or, more accurately, NOT-so-single males). Reading through some of them made me ashamed of the "single male" tag: I can't imagine acting like that much of an asshole to anyone. It's obvious that some of the folks here have had very bad experiences that have colored their perception of the single male, perhaps forever, and that's unfortunate (justified, based on some of the stuff I read, but unfortunate).

However, insinuating that all single males are loosers and incapable of having "normal" relationships just because we've made certain lifestyle choices is mildly offensive at best, and hypocritical at worst.

Just my .02 - and probably worth exactly what you paid for it. (Shit - wait a minute - less than .02 as a dime a dozen actually works out to .008 - my bad)

[TeamSoBe]

Thanks for the input, Uberkraker. If anything that I say in this response sounds like I might be picking on you then be advised in advance that I'm not. You were honest and thoughtful and that's pretty rare, you deserve not to be flamed.

Here is the problem: you're interested in participating in crazy sex parties. You don't want to go to a crazy sex party that's full of nothing but men, though, so you look for crazy sex parties that single women go to as well as single men. There aren't such things though, crazy parties full of single people having orgiastic sex with both men and women in attendance. Those parties just don't exist.

The solution to the problem is for couples to show up together. The male/female ratio is automatically balanced and everybody feels more comfortable knowing that any random party guest is somebody elses' problem, emotionally speaking. A single guy showing up at that party is showing up with no contribution. If there were hoardes of sex-starved single women to balance out the hoardes of sex-starved single men then nobody would be complaining, but there are not.

What we have in reality is teeming masses of single guys who are looking for cheap, easy, no-obligation sex. Every guy in the world is looking for cheap, easy, no-obligation sex, so what entitles any given single guy to admission to a gender-balanced sex party? A guy can get admission to a crazy sex party by being either gorgeous, rich, famous, powerful, or by showing up with his own woman. Without at least one of those things, he's not going to have an easy time getting invited and welcomed. There are just so many guys that would like to live the sex party fantasy and only so many women to go around, it's a matter of simple economics.

However, insinuating that all single males are loosers and incapable of having "normal" relationships just because we've made certain lifestyle choices is mildly offensive at best, and hypocritical at worst.

Entirely valid point. My intent in starting this thread was to pick on married cheating husbands, not guys like you. Guys like you who actually get it are the ones that we're always looking for. Sometimes I convince myself that no such guy exists though. Your point is far more valid if your ultimate goal is to eventually find a woman of your own who is sexually compatible with you. You said that you're not. If you spend all of your energy on hooking up with swinging wives and no energy on finding your own woman then I would have to start wondering about you again.

I have seen an awful lot of single guys who enjoy fucking swinger women but who would flat-out never consider it with their own girlfriends or wives. We have been with a guy who acted that way, had a great time in bed with us a couple of times but then became very controlling and smothering and possessive with the woman that he met later on. He treated his swinging fun with us as a phase and he would never ever consider it with his own woman. (For the record, we weren't trying to get her, we were close enough with him to have conversations about it.) For him to treat crazy sex with my wife as a phase that he went through while he was young and single but never ever consider letting his own woman have that sort of fun is offensive to me. It's an indication that he has a Madonna/Whore complex and guess who gets to be the whore, my wife.

Guys who love fucking swinger women but who then settle down with 'nice' girls just don't get it. They are just using swingers for cheap and easy sex instead of putting the work into meeting girls at singles' bars. They aren't as offensive as cheating husbands who fuck swinger women while keeping their own nice girls deluded at home, but to me they are just the same kind of guy at a different point in life.

[4sum]

TeamSoBe

While I normally agree in total with you, and still do, I have a few observations about your last post. As preamble, I have to say that when we began swinging, we decided not to go the single guy route just because of primarily my own insecurities and the potential political problems that might crop up. Couples seemed a much more stable platform. At least that was the initial premise.

From observation, swinging as a couple doesn't eliminate the bad characteristics of a guy, (or for that fact, a woman), but it does tend to put a bit of a leash on them.

As you say, a guy just can't marry a nice girl and think he's changed himself. But there is a mitigating circumstance here. We didn't start swinging till we were in our thirties. If we had tried it earlier, there is little doubt in my mind that it would have ruined our relationship. We did it when we were ready. If a guy falls in love with a woman who isn't or maybe even won't ever be ready to explore her more sensual side, then as long as he's aware that that is the case, he'd better learn to live with it. When he can't live with it is where the problems crop up.

Concerning your examination of the Madonna/Whore complex that males exhibit to swinging women, might I offer this hypothesis. Don't we as husbands of swinging women have the ultimate luxury of having a type of totally self contained Madonna/Whore complex relating entirely to our own Wives? "My wife is my personal porn star." isn't the kind of small talk commonly overheard at the local PTA bake sale, but most of those folks probably don't swing. So aren't we being a bit arrogant in our expectations that any man we invite into our bed should have so nearly the same appreciation for our Wives that we do?

In fact we have little power beyond that of mere friendship to regulate the behavior of people we swing with, married, single or otherwise. Sometimes I think more's the pity, but that's the way it is.

[Flori_DAMAN]

this thread has thus far been the best I have seen for portaying the plight of both the single male and the couple looking for one.

Keep it up.

Single males have got to get the idea that they are purely secondary in the scope of the lifestyle. Even though a good single male is sought a bad one is easily discovered.

Married couples that want to mingle with single guys have to realize that most of them that claim to be single swingers are wackos too. They are in fact usually married or guys that can't get any or single guys that can't get any.

If you are good at it though and can find the single guy that is truly into the lifestyle then you have found a rare and cherished gem. For a while cuz.

He won't be single for long either.

John.