Are single men really worthless?

[Flori_DAMAN]

A dime per dozen. This has been the value placed on single men repeatedly.

Are single men really worthless?

Aren't we all just people? I am apparently the pendulem of swingers. Having lost my mate to death after 10 years of swinging I was shocked at the way I was treated.

She died suddenly. Suddenly I was an outcast in the very society that we had embraced.

I am sure that divorced single men have gone through the same process.

I don't harbor any ill feelings whatsoever though because we were the same way as a couple. When the mate left the package deal was different. We showed no sympathy toward the single guy that lost his wife. Now he was just a horny single guy. Little did I know I would be there soon.

At first I was very angry though. When I managed to find a female I was again welcomed with open arms to the clubs that I frequented.

That is the way of the world though. The knockout rate will get you if you let it.

It appears that I am single again. I wish to publicly have my name changed to Flori_DAMAN and if Julie will let me do it then I will appreciate it.

I know that Julie does not like to have name changes because it can confuse people. However considering that I have changed status and states and I have posted for a long time I think it would be appropriate, but its ok if not.

I would also like to offer assistance to both single guys and married couples that like single guys.

I am prepared to do a topic within this board that addresses the plight of both single males in the lifestyle and couples that seek single males.

If my name continues to be michigancouple then thats OK.

I don't want to change policies, but I do want to create a system that makes it less risky and more comfortable to engage with single men in my little tiny way.

First of all I would like to really get to the nuts and bolts of single males.

Personally I am not going to be swinging for quite some time unless I get really lucky, which I don't see happening.

I would very much like to offer an exchange of feelings concerning single men and couples seeking them in the lifestyle.

Do to the disparaging remarks so often heard, (i.e. a dime a dozen), about single males I think the quality, (which is reconizably most are married screwballs and single guys that can't get any), of true lifestyle single males should be recognized.

I would like to be a spokesperson so to speak within this board to both defend the true lifestyle single male and the true couple seeking them.

A good single man in the lifestyle is not worth a dime per dozen. He is worth some very good times.

They are though truly hard to find.

You can't really hope to go to the bar or the next superbowl party to just have someone fuck your wife and think its safe.

My feelings are that a good single male that should be considered has qualities beyond the average single male that is just looking to dump a load.

He may have experience in the lifestyle or just be genuinely intrigued by it.

He may be a good looking man with lots of charisma or he may be an average guy with no desire to have a long lasting commitment due to his status.

Maybe he is in between relationships and just wants to share himself.

They are agreeably easier to find than the elusive single female but how do you know what he is up to?

Is there any way to screen this guy?

I believe so.

I have preached on safety of meeting single males for a very long time. You should never meet without making him realize that he is indeed the lower status until you meet and verify his reality.

You should take extreme caution. No holds barred. Don't meet him at your house or in a non-public place....blah blah blah.

Some of the issues I hope to address are:

How do you deal with single men at swingers clubs, (which I personally feel is the safest place).

How do you screen single men online?

How do you meet single men in the real world and know that the reprucussions of the meeting won't cause problems?

What do you really want in a single male?

And for you single guys:

Why do you want to swing?

Do you realize the impact you may have if you do something that is out of bounds?

Many things that are totally acceptable with couples are not acceptable with single males.

If you have the mindset that you are among the "dime a dozen" guys then you will have desperation written all over your face.

Single guys are horribly trod upon in the lifestyle.

Guys that call themselves swingers and are just looking for a piece of ass are the reason. Most (around 95% in my feeling), are married or just looking to get there rocks off. They have no clue to the swingers mindset.

I hope to somehow seperate single men that have no clue to the reality of the lifestyle.

I will post some polls that deal with what single men and couples that seek them really think.

If you are a single man that is just looking to cheat behind her back then don't respond.

If you are a couple that feel single males have no place in the lifestyle then don't respond. Because you don't have any interest in single lifestyle males anyhow.

I would like to hear from both single males and couples that truly seek them.

I would like advice on how to design the polls.

I would also like to know if and why you consider that being "a dime a dozen" could be construed as insulting.

John





John.

[Alura]

I'm confused, John. Have you and Tam broken up or are you just living separately until you have a bank full of dollars?

Mr. Alura

[Flori_DAMAN]

Our last few conversations tilt toward the split up. I haven't been broadcasting our twists and turns but its not looking good right now.

She moved and changed her phone number. That was the main reason I couldn't talk about it much. There are people on this board that know her. I wanted to keep her privacy.

We have the same feelings for each other we always did but there are massive wedges between us that neither of us seem capable of budging. Its not about the dollars though, its about priorities and family. Both of us have priorities and family in mind but neither of us agree on these very important issues. I will note that swinging had nothing to do with the likely demise of our relationship though. Actually it was a big gob of glue that we still talk about. Yes, we still talk almost daily but that won't last for long.

Thanks for asking Mr. Alura. John.

[Alura]

Sorry to hear it, John. We'll keep hoping for positive Karma to step in and rescue the situation. It's always sad to see this happen when love still seems to be involved. Regardless of where it all leads, we wish the best to both of you.

Alura

[OhioCouple]

Wow John,

You addressed a kazillion things in one post. Now everybody knows how long winded and inquisitive that I am, so I promise to keep this short.

First off, Big Hugs.

I'll only address this question at first. If you were shunned by the clubs that you normally attended when married and swinging, were the patrons the same (meaning regulars) or are you talking about attending different clubs where you didn't know anyone? If they were the same ones that knew you before you suddenly became single and shunned you, then you have just given me another good reason for why I don't care for Clubs and prefer to get to know others on an outside level.


Lori

[Flori_DAMAN]

Thanks Lori and a big ole hug to you too!

This phenonenom is one which is very common in practically aspects of society. It took me quite a bit of time and therapy to understand it. People in general fear death. When someone, especially a younger person dies suddenly at a young age it is a threat to their own own sense of mortality. We all fear death, that is a part of survival. If you think you don't then see if your heart beats fast next time a truck almost hits you.

Swinging as well as non-swinging friends and even relatives seemed very uneasy around me for years. This leads to a deeper sense of isolation and remorse. Having spoken with many other young widowed people (in fact Tam is one herself), this is a common reaction across the board. So, Iguess I shouldn't point at swingers more than anyone else, or clubs for that matter.

She died 9 years ago tomorrow btw. We had a really rough winter that year and people drove from all over the state to attend her funeral. Many of my relatives just couldn't understand how we knew so many couples from all over. Looking back it was actually amusing watching them address our relatives questions about how we knew them.....everyone had a pre-planned answer and some of them were remarkably witty,,,lol. I am sure some of my cousins were bewildered though.

But after the funeral the phone stopped ringing and it slowly sank in how much life would change.

The only thing I really don't like about clubs is that I personally don't do real well with crowds. The cliques are a thing of life that I think is a bit over analyzed. Even bowling leagues form cliques. It is a natural thing to do. It takes so much time to get to know and trust someone that once you know a few regulars you tend to naturally stick with them and leave it up to the others to tend to the newbies. So, ultimately until a couple has a familiar face they may feel like they are shunned. However the couples that were new and approached us or others in a friendly way soon became a member of the dreaded clique anyhow if they were not pushy or what not.

Well, I got windy again, but Lori, if you go to a club just expect to find people there. Don't expect them to be any different than other groups of people. You will like some, not care for some, some will be nice and some jerks...hope that helps...John.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN
I would also like to know if and why you consider that being "a dime a dozen" could be construed as insulting.

I don't like to think of any breathing species as a dime a dozen. To me it sounds cheapening and discounting existence. There is a big difference though between a cheater and a single, be it male or female.

I at one time wanted to include a single male in our intimate life but now, due to the influx of cheating married men of late, I have backed WAY off from that. I can't help it though. Cheating people just disgust me and I have no tolerance for it.

I will only address this board. I do believe that there are quite a few singles on here that are not cheating and understand what swinging is all about. This is my opinion only, but I think those true *swingles* need to step up to the plate and police the male sector. You, John, with your experience on both sides of the fence are one. Perhaps you can help turn this around for the true singles and how others view them.

Most of my life my friends have been males. I wasn't a play with your dolly kind of girl, rather the kid that was putting together the next neighborhood football or baseball game and I would get down and dirty with them. In my adult life I gravitated toward men as friends and have had very few female friends. I have an abundance of male friends (never thought about them in swinging terms as I didn't know what it was then) of which some are still single and probably some of the best friends I have to date.

During my single years, we would be each others dates to weddings etc. but there was no pawing attempt for sexual action, nor was I treated as an easy target. So I know there are good, respectfull men out there. The problem is finding them and I don't think frequenting bars, clubs or online is the way to do so. I now think, for swinging purposes that one must find a single male who they meet in a real life environment and are respectfull towards women.

John thanks for answering my first question. I know all to well how people seem to drop off the face of the earth after a tragedy. I have been guilty of it myself, so your response made perfect sense.

Lori

[JustAskJulie]

I will only address this board. I do believe that there are quite a few singles on here that are not cheating and understand what swinging is all about. This is my opinion only, but I think those true *swingles* need to step up to the plate and police the male sector.

I agree Lori. We do have some great single guys around here. The problem is that the ones who aren't necessarily tend to be the more outspoken. And the few that are, don't speak up nearly enough. I think that perhaps the few good ones are scared to speak up for fear of being slammed simply for being a single male regardless. But I think that if they would speak up more often and share their views that the couples here would see which ones really are worth their salt (and worth a lot more than a dime a dozen - at least a dime a piece ).

[curious24]

Being a single male I think that this is a great idea. Although, I do feel like we are a dime a dozen... that is if you want to deal with all the pricks out there.. from what I have seen and read it seems to me that finding a respectful single male is just as hard if not harder than finding a single lady in the lifestyle. Just look at all the screening you have to do for a single male. IMO it's almost the same for all those single ladies out there who are just "bots" or scams to try and get you to go to their web site and sign up etc. Those are getting to be really good now a days and they are coming up with new ideas to "fake" you out.

at any rate... it would be nice to find a site where single males are screened for the couples before hand like at some swinger clubs. then couples or whomever could feel fairly comfortable that they knew what they were getting.

anyway thanks for the great thread here

[bootsie]

This is my first and with luck not my last post here.

Let me begin by saying that I am a single male that would be classified as a "cheater". I have been married to my wife for over 32 years now and love her dearly. For the first 15 years of our marriage sex was great and we had a lot of fun and although we never found anyone to swing with we discussed it from time to time and she was open to try it.

Unfortunately, in 1984, out of the blue she became a Jehovah's Witness (against my will) after having someone else's child (she doesn't know that I found out), but I decided to stay with her and our three children anyway. I stayed true to her until 1999, when i decided to see some other women to see if sex could be fun again for me. (I am not going to get into the details of our sex life, other than to say it is way more satisfying for her than it is for me.)

My extramarital activity has NEVER been at the cost of fullfilling her emotional or sexual needs. I have dated a number of women, married, widowed, and single. We have had very good relationships up to the point where the sex began to create emotional bonds. Although we would start with the idea of just getting together for an evening of great sex, it always wound up with me hurting them because despite what they said they were looking for a lot more, and I was not willing to leave my wife. That was not what I was looking for, so I don't look in those areas anymore.

The swinger "lifestyle" advertises no strings recreational sex between friends, which is what I was hoping to find, so I decided to try that route, but after answering numerous ads and corresponding with several couples I found that there is indeed a barrier to entry for single men who are not an Adonis with the cock of a racehorse. Things nearly always end when I tell them I am married. Would I be better off lying about my marital status?

I can understand the attitude as it relates to some of the more obnoxious "studs" who may be out there, but is it necessary to tar all single men with that broad brush? What exactly is wrong with a single male sharing some good times with a couple if everyone is open to being friends??? Is there no room at all in the "lifestyle" for a decent single male who may be in a sexually unfullfilling marriage? It seems the "dime a dozen" attitude leads to a lot of closed minds among you folk.

[OhioCouple]

Bootsie,

This is not meant to flame you, but you are not a *single male* as you choose to describe yourself. You are a married male trying to be in the swinging world, *married people* swing together in a way that is comfortable for them be it either separate rooms, same rooms, what ever. It is a joint effort.

Yes, I would call you a cheater. How can you *date* people when you are a married male? Dating is what *singles* do, not what a married person does. Married people *meet* with like minded singles or couples, they do not date.

If emotional ties were happening then I would say that you connected with lonely depressed females or if a female within a couple became that attracted to you she was unhappy in the marriage anyway. This is not what swingers are or do. It is an enhancement to our lives and not one where an emotional commitment in the sense of love enters into the equation. You were not swinging in any sense that I know of and have learned over the last year about how TRUE swingers feel and interact.

Perhaps I am just really slow or mis-informed, but I didn't know that swingers advertised. I never even knew the word existed until about 18 months ago. Now I am 42 years old and have read everything I can get my hands on since I was three. I can't believe that I would have missed an advertisement of such because I read the porn mags too.

Regardless of the situation with your wife, you are correct, there is indeed a barrier that will keep you out of most of the swingers bedroom. A true single has a hard enough time because there are too many married men out there trying to present themselves as a single, when indeed they are cheating on their spouses. Any way you look at it bootsie, you are cheating on not only your wife but you are cheating yourself out of a more fullfilling life If you don't have the gumption to leave an unsatisfying marriage.

If you begin to lie to others that you are not married, trust me, the consequences would not be pretty. Swingers are all about trust and honesty not only amongst themselves but with each other. Lie, get caught and suffer a fate worse than having your face being placed on a billboard in a busy intersection.

Go for prostitutes, pay the price and not drag us or any unsuspecting female down with you please. This way you won't have to lie and you won't have to worry about emotional commitment.

Lori

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by curious24
IMO it's almost the same for all those single ladies out there who are just "bots" or scams to try and get you to go to their web site and sign up etc. Those are getting to be really good now a days and they are coming up with new ideas to "fake" you out.

You bring up a very valid point here. We have run across quite a few of these scams. They present themselves as a single woman, lure you in with what you want to hear and then forward you to their web page. Always a paying one of course. It all goes back to using your head and being cautious when dealing with ads or online connections.

Lori

[Flori_DAMAN]

I just don't know where to begin with Bottsie's post. I will try to cut through my interpretation to the best of my ability but can't possibly begin to organize all of the obvious contradictions.

First of all, the president of the US got caught cheating not so long ago, a good number of our idols, from moviestars to sports stars cheat ( recently one was jailed for setting up the murder of his wife...damn i cant think of his name now). Anyone familiar with famous people and scandals could write books on it and I am sure many have been written on this subject.

The local pastor may cheat too. You know people at work and people in your church or local PTA that cheat.

It is not my place to sit in judgement of anyone that cheats. I cannot say whether their reasons are justified or not.

However one thing I can do is use the real definition of cheating. It has recently been quoted elsewhere on this board but I will post it again.

Main Entry: 1cheat
Pronunciation: 'chEt
Date: 1590
transitive senses
1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>
intransitive senses
1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly (as at cards or on an examination)
2 : to be sexually unfaithful -- usually used with on


It is very important to use correct terminology. To sum Bootsie's comments it sounds like this:

I am an honest single male that is married and has sex with people without my wifes consent but don't cheat. Now I want to have sex with swingers but they don't want to have sex with me because I am an honest, married, cheating, single guy. Should I lie to them too?

It would seem to me that you are twisting and contorting quite a few terms here designed to simply fool people.

Cheating has gone on since Adam and Eve. Swinging just isn't cheating. If you have sex with someone without your S/O's knowledge it will always be considered cheating.

Swingers just happen to despise cheating. So my advice would be to back off of swingers instead of trying to confuse them. You should have noticed by now that swingers aren't easily confused anyhow. How much time have you wasted so far? Now you are going to lie your way in if you haven't already?

This post truly demonstrates the consistent need for swingers to use good screening methods or just choose to swing with couples. If you tend to believe anything anyone says to you and don't want to end up with a married, cheating, single, honest guy then I would suggest you stick with couples only. Of course some of them are pairs of cheaters also. After a while you can spot both single married guys and cheating couples pretty quickly. They just act different. A zebra cant hide his stripes or change them to spots at will.

Anyone that rolls this many total contradictions into one post seems incapable of the truth and I am sure anyone with half a mind (let alone two), would have no problems seeing through it under any circumstances.

Question for other single guys: How do you assure couples that you are in fact single? And couples are you using basic screening methods? It's really not that hard to do.

Married cheating single honest guys are in fact a dime a dozen. Crossing the line with your s/o is your business and the business of whomever would indulge with you knowing the real thruth, but when you bring another couple into it through deception then you bring it to another level. A disgusting level. The level of the type that the majority of swingers totally abhor and always have and due to the nature of swinging always will.

Thanks curious24 btw. Your comments are well accepted. Lori and Julie you are always right on target.

This type of discussion tends to flush the single, cheating, honest married guys out because if everyone including the real single guy agrees then its a real threat to those that would scam. Let it be known that cheaters won't be tolerated in the lifestyle.

John.

[OhioCouple]

LOL about the newest label in the swinging world:

Married cheating single honest guys are in fact a dime a dozen.

Let's add though:

True single honest swinging guys are diamonds in the rough.


Great post John.

Lori

[bootsie]

Ohio couple et al,

Got the message. Bye...

bootsie