Being hard on "single" swinger guys

[TeamSoBe]

A lot of people like to bitch about how hard some of us are on single guys in swinger discussions. I'm the guy half of a couple and I have to admit that at first I used to feel bad for single guys when I would see this. It just seems rude that so many people instinctively jump on single guys and berate them. Once we got a little more experienced in swinging and interacting with people online I started to understand why people are so hard on "single" swinger guys on web sites.

As if the current flame war going on in another thread isn't enough of a blatant example already, take a look at this news story about a woman in our area that made the mistake of trusting somebody that she met online.

In the case of the news story, a woman in our area met a single guy who was claiming to be a couple. When she met the guy in person, his story was most likely "My wife couldn't make it but she told me to have fun with you anyway, we do this all the time, it's okay". Some guys will say that in advance when they mail you, they will contact you with "Hi, I'm Bob's wife, I'm out of town on business, but I'm looking for somebody to entertain him." In the case of the woman in our area, apparently she didn't fall for his excuses so he just raped her when he couldn't get her to consent.

That's a perfect illustration of why you don't want to have anything to do with a guy that is into deception. Guys that are into hiding outside sex from their wives are already lying to get sex. They also obviously lie to the women that they are trying to have sex with. If they disrespect you enough to try to trick you into bed with lies, then they are probably capable of much more evil, like our local rapist was. If you get the slightest hint that somebody is being deceptive then stay away from them entirely. A crazy and uninhibited sex romp with no strings attached is an attractive concept, but it's not worth the risk of getting raped by some lunatic.

The only way to be absolutely certain that you aren't fucking somebody else's husband is if you are fucking him while his wife is in the room cheering for both of you. Even if all that you're interested in is guys, you're still better off with people that aren't deceptive or insane. If you hook up with single guys in motels after meeting them online, then you're putting yourself at a huge risk of eventually encountering the guy that is fucking you while his wife is at work and his baby is napping unattended, or the guy that has no ability to relate to women but wants sex so badly that he'll lie to you and rape you when it doesn't work, or the guy who is HIV positive and can't get laid if he admits it to women so he meets them online for anonymous sex.

In the last year that my wife and I have had a profile on web sites, we have seen so many attempts at deception and we have heard so many stories about encounters with single guys that have gone horribly awry that I'm starting to realize that there really are reasons why people pick on them so much. I know that this message is going to piss some people off, but I think that it's worth talking about because there is at least one woman on this board that until recently had the mistaken notion that single Internet guys would be a safer introduction to swinging than going out to a swing club alone. That's simply not true and if somebody has to be explicit about advising women that are new to swinging against meeting single Internet guys, then that somebody will have to be me.

Ladies, there are a lot of psychos out there, please be careful. If you go to a club and swing with a couple then you will have a sense of whether or not they really are a real married couple. If they are a real married couple and you get any sense of trust for the wife then the guy that you're dealing with has a ringing endorsement from his wife that he's a guy that can respect his women and who is decent in bed. If she's sitting there watching you and cheering while you fuck him then you know that she's not going to show up and shoot at you when she finds her husband cheating with you. Even if you're not bisexual there are plenty of couples that will be thrilled to play with you. I really would advise new single women to just head straight for places like off-premises parties and swingers' clubs where they will find swinging couples rather than single guys. I personally recommend going to parties that don't let single guys in at all, since I have personally seen cases where even the single guys in swingers' clubs are actually married cheaters with wives who don't know that they are there fucking other women. You can take my recommendation or ignore it, I'm not gonig to declare myself the swinger expert, but I'm putting it out there as a recommendation either way.

This is pretty much the only issue in swinging that pisses me off enough that I'm willing to be involved in a flame war over it, and I'm not going to apologize for offending anybody. If you're the one single guy in your area that's not a delusional psychopath then I do feel sorry for you, but you have to admit that your voice is just lost in the howling volume of the masses of idiots that give the "single guy" crowd a bad name in general.

[curious24]

being a single guy i feel i need to say a couple things here... reading the news article i think the lady is also somewhat at fault here.. according to the news article she thought the man was a woman and he came over to her apartment.. that's the first and most dangerous mistake anyone could make meeting someone for the first time via the internet.. she should have met him in a public resturant or a bar but NOT at her own home.. i'm sorry that just seems a little niaeve to me... secondly i wonder if she even asked for a picture of him or how much she actually talked to him? i'm tending to believe that she just "trusted" this person to be who they said they where.. and that's another mistake you can not make on the internet and another reason why to meet the person in public... IMO she just didn't use her brain on this one and played it very dangerously and she got burned... i do feel sorry that this had to happen but she could have taken steps to avoid this situation...

[TeamSoBe]

Originally posted by curious24
she should have met him in a public resturant or a bar but NOT at her own home..

Very true. It doesn't excuse rape though, she wasn't at fault for that. It also doesn't do anything to temper the mental image that we start to form about the dangers and hassles of meeting "single" guys online.

secondly i wonder if she even asked for a picture of him or how much she actually talked to him?

That doesn't matter much, photos are easy to fake. I was once spammed by a scam artist for AFF that was sending out a photo of the hot young girl that he was claiming to be. The photo was one of my wife that I shot for her amateur porn web site. As hot as the little bitch was, I didn't fall for his scam.

i do feel sorry that this had to happen but she could have taken steps to avoid this situation...

Yes, the simplest possible step for that particular woman to avoid getting raped would have been for her to not meet somebody alone after contacting them in a net ad. That's my point here. "Single" guys use every lie in the book to try to delude swinger women into no-strings sex, and some of them also resort to rape. Throw in fears of psycho stalkers, "D&D free" guys that are HIV positive and whatever else you can think of to fear, and you have to wonder if maybe single women are better off heading directly to their local swing club or off-premises party and avoiding meeting people online at all.

A woman's bullshit detector has to be extremely finely tuned for her to be able to select a stud for no-obligation sex for a night. The best way for a woman to get a full sense of the potential dangers of allowing a guy to nail her is by meeting him in person somewhere safe. Swing clubs are jam packed with guys that are perfect candidates and the ones that are half of a couple also come with these handy females that a woman can use to find a guy that comes with a glowing endorsement. If a single woman meets somebody by herself somewhere then she deals with the same risks that any call girl goes, she might get raped, beaten, killed, infected with HIV or some other disease, confronted by a sex partner's angry wife, whatever else you can think of. Some women might get off on the danger of that possibility but I have to assume that most are actually truly looking for nothing but no-obligation sex.

That's regarding single women. Regarding married women, there is simply no way that my wife and I will tolerate the risk of meeting a "single" guy online. We won't even consider it. We also refuse to meet couples in private places because I'm not interested in having to protect my wife from getting raped by some maladjusted single guy that claims to be a couple online but actually just wants to get rid of me and fuck my wife.

I am open to the idea that there really are some totally decent and honest single guys out there that can handle themselves without creating drama and who can provide something fun and useful for MFM situations. My wife and I do MFM and MFMM and MFMMM almost exclusively. We meet our guys in real life though, they are guys that we see at normal clubs, that we meet through friends, that kind of thing. They are guys that we know and trust, not some J. Random Psycho with "12 INCHES OF HEAT fOR U" and photos that look suspiciously attractive. The net is a great way to make contact with people, but these guys running around with varying degrees of emotional instability under their belts really do eliminate the realistic possibility of a couple like us meeting "single" guys from online sites or even in meeting somebody that claims to be a couple in any kind of private setting.

Pushy, deceitful, unstable guys are not the only problem confronting swinging couples and swinging single women, but they are easily the biggest and most aggravating problem.

[she_wants_it]

Team SoBe, I've really appreciated your comments in the RKingston fiasco thread and think I may have another situation that may illustrate what you are talking about here. I answered an online ad (believe me, I cancelled my own ad and am swearing off them) posted by a woman who was seeking to have a party with several women only, with her husband there to watch. She made it very clear in the ad that she did not want any other males present at all. There were 3 attractive photos accompanying her ad and it sounded like fun to at least look into. I am very new and thought I could meet some women I could relate to and maybe make a friend or two to go to the clubs with. I emailed and invited her to take a look at my profile and see what she thought. She wrote back with "WE took a look. When can we get together?" That's it. Now, I was answering an ad for a female only party, so I wrote back asking if she had gotten a girl's night together or was she thinking of something for herself and her hubby. The answer was "What are you doing tonight?" That's it. I answered I wasn't free, but wanted to find out more about what she was planning. I then get a reply from "Chuck" asking when we can get together. Just to find out if this was a total scam from the start, I emailed back that I had asked several times if this was a girl's night or a 3some and hadn't gotten an answer and couldn't do anything until I knew what they had in mind. Chuck writes back that he was thinking of tying Debbie up and surprising her with letting me go wild with her. Or I could show up like I'm selling something and surprise her by having sex with her. Or he could tie her up to the bed or the ceiling, etc. I wonder if she even knew about him placing the ad or not. I mean, why would a woman place an ad for a girl's night and it turn into this whole other thing? Any thoughts?

[Flori_DAMAN]

The circumstances here imo don't have anything to do with swinging single men. This was a rapist. He posed as a single female. Without knowing all the details of that story one could interpret the warning of the story to be an blanket statement about meeting single guys online.

The lesson to be learned by this event is that just because someone says they are a such and such, (in this case a single woman), they might not be telling the truth. He could have done the same thing by saying he was a couple. Of course it would have been difficult for him to find someone to rape in that case because as we all know it is hard to find a single female that entertains couples.

Anyhow, I really don't think this is a good example of what single male swingers do. It is a good example of what demented rapists do and that one does need to use common sense on the internet just like they do in real life. Most rapes are date rapes and the victim met the assailant in person. John.

[TeamSoBe]

These are all stories about errant men deceiving and harming women because it's easier for them to do that if they can hide behind a net connection. If you go to a club in person and meet the guy's wife in person and she says "Yeah, sure, fuck him, I'm happy for you" then you don't have these problems. That's my point in all of this.

If I were a single swinger guy that wasn't psychotic then I would be very irritated at all of these guys out there giving men a bad name, since it would mean that I would have such a negative stereotype to overcome in order to meet anybody.

[OhioCouple]

I feel this entire post should be read by every member of this board and by all new browsers. CAUTION is the key word here. To date, we have met ALL of our friends online via a pay website.

These are just a few of our experiences so far and some of the reasons that we have block on all single males and females from sending us messages.

We received an abundance of mail from both single males and "females". When politely turned away, some became downright frightening and rude. First clue in any corespondence we have had with people in which we have learned this last year is if you are incapable of putting together a full sentence, more than one sentence or don't know what the caps key is for and not for, you are not the type of person that we want to meet. If you can only talk about FUCKING and how big your genitals are, be it a 40DD or a 10" wanker, you are not the type of people that we want to meet. If your ad is unable to provide some sort of non-sexually related information and relies on phrases like "I love sex", "I am very oral", "I love to please a woman in every way, you won't be disappointed", then you are not the type of people that we want to meet.

We had a "woman" contact giving the appearance to be a couple, that wanted to get together with us. To make a long story short the *woman* asked if we would be willing to meet with just the husband since she was going down to take care of relatives. This became a huge issue on another site as this person which turned out to be a deranged single male posing as a couple in order to get access to those who had blocked all singles. The end result was not pretty and a few people found themselves in a very bad position. Not at all unlike the incident in Miami. End result the dude was busted in more ways than one. Not before he harmed one too many, even one was too many.

Recently we had a single male that we thought we had hand selected knowing all the info that we thought necessary to insure that he was a single. The deception was very good and I'll give him that credit. I am just glad it didn't turn into a disaster for us.

We have had one cyber stalker which turned out to be a married cheating male. That was very early in our swinging experiences. Fortunately with the help of some other people we were able to get this person to back off. By being removed from privledges to certain sites and threatend with a loss of man hood, he gave it up. Unfortunately, there is no doubt in my mind that he moved on to other prey.

Ohhh, my list can go on. Those are just scratching the surface.

The best thing that can come out of this thread is that people will not believe any and everything the read or see on the internet. And they will take cautiion with anyone they meet via such. My recommendations are to NEVER play on the first meet and always meet in a public place for as many times as it takes to feel comfortable. And if you are first looking into swinging, go to a club and take your chances there. At least the club owners have a vested interest in insuring safety.

Lori

[JustAskJulie]

This is a really great topic. When first reading through it I was debating moving it to the "Single Male" forum and to an extent still am. But on the other hand the warnings here apply to much more than just single men, they apply to anyone. Even if you aren't looking for single men it is very easy sometimes to be decieved by those who pretend to be couples.

The key here is to use good judgement and common sense. If you don't have those two things you shouldn't be swinging.

[TeamSoBe]

If I were a news editor, there would still be occasional discussions in the general news about interesting concepts lately in given subject X, and I would stick it in the general news. That's why I started the thread here. Move away though, if the conversation wanders somewhere. The net is cool that way.

This all reinforces my single Golden Rule of swinging, that the rules are exactly the same as the rules for dating. As a single person before you got married, you had to assume that every guy that goes "Hey baby" when you're walking down the street is a psychopath unless he gives you reason not to. The rule in swinging is exactly the same, except that there are more psychopaths hanging out in online swingers' web sites than there are in singles' bars. Dating must suck a lot for a woman, you ladies have my sympathy.

[curious24]

Originally posted by TeamSoBe
That doesn't matter much, photos are easy to fake. I was once spammed by a scam artist for AFF that was sending out a photo of the hot young girl that he was claiming to be. The photo was one of my wife that I shot for her amateur porn web site. As hot as the little bitch was, I didn't fall for his scam.

well i guess my point about the picture was that someone could knock on the door and if it wasn't the person she was expecting then she shouldn't open the door... but on another note i hate those scams.. i'm just glad this forum isn't filled with spamn good job julie!!!

If I were a single swinger guy that wasn't psychotic then I would be very irritated at all of these guys out there giving men a bad name, since it would mean that I would have such a negative stereotype to overcome in order to meet anybody.

being a single guy.. this is exactly why i don't post ads or contact anyone.. i just let people come to me... the way i figure it single guys have such a bad stereotype because this type of thing that it isn't worth my time getting rejected all the time, getting rude responces, or not getting any responces at all...

but like i said eariler.. i'd like to know the ratio between good experiences vs bad experiences with single guys.. i've read a lot of both on here... hmmm...

[curious24]

Originally posted by TeamSoBe
As a single person before you got married, you had to assume that every guy that goes "Hey baby" when you're walking down the street is a psychopath unless he gives you reason not to.

sometimes being single sucks because of this... people who know me think i'm a great nice guy.. but when i start a friendly converstaion at the super market or heck with my neighbors right across from me at my apartment they all think i'm some guy out to get them... i don't get it.. and probably never will.. but if anyone knows how to combat this i'm all ears

[bimrdcpl]

I have to say that this post has scared the shit out of me, to the point that I just changed all of our profiles to meeting couples only. We have met one single male off of the internet and from the sounds of it we were pretty lucky. And guess what he is the first and last. Its not all because of this post but this was the last straw for us. We too have heard quite a few stories from "single" males and we were getting fed up with it anyway.

I agree that everyone should read this and the other post. It opens up ones eyes if they were closed in the first place and ours were. I thank goodness that I came across this forum because I have learned so much from you all and I cant thank you enough.


Thank you all

Dawn

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by bimrdcpl
I have to say that this post has scared the shit out of me, to the point that I just changed all of our profiles to meeting couples only.

I wouldn't let this thread scare you, more so take it as a reminder that all that glitters is not gold. I personally feel that it is a good reminder to use CAUTION and good judgement when selecting someone to share in their innermost lives.

As I said before, we have met all of our swinging friends via online ads or through those people's circle of friends. We have not swung with everyone of them, (only what I like to call 3 1/2)but we do always meet them in a public place after sometimes several weeks or more correspondence via email, AIM and/or phone conversations. We learned early on to *Not play* on the first meeting. Our first time doing so was fine, but we were too new to realize this isn't how it always is. Our second time was not fine and we got ourselves in a situation we wouldn't have had we taken a breather to talk about it first. They weren't dangerous or anything like that, but definitely not the type of people that we want to swing with. We are still in contact with them to this day via occasional emails and have chosen to remain friends and friends only. I think their feelings were just as mutual. After this experience we revised a lot of our rules as to how we opt to play.

One thing that has worked VERY well for us is getting to know people over the course of time through forums such as this. True colors tend to show by the way people present themselves in discussions. We probably have around 40 or 50 couples and a few singles, some from this board, that we correspond with rather frequently from all around the country. We would have no problem meeting with any of them as we feel we have gotten to know them quite well. Their behavioral patterns are much like our own and unless they are brilliant actors/actresses they are a good representation of those we would like to have the opportunity to meet if only to share a nice meal and good conversation.

We have only had one experience where we did not know the people but for a few hours and that caused a little friction. But this was an entirely different situation and was at a house party where everyone who attended were for lack of better words, *hand selected* and the problems stemmed from us being very new and not having all of our own rules intact as we should have. We now look at this as part of the growing pains. We intend to attend this house party again as the people there were wonderful. Again we met the host of this party via online ads, who is a single male and coordinates them with a single female of which they have been friends for many years and both have been swinging for many years. They just happen to be spouseless at the moment.

Bottom line is don't be frightened by this thread, just use your head and good judgement when meeting with people either from online or in a club environment. Most of all, if something doesn't feel truly right, don't do it.

Lori

[ItalianDaisy1]

I would have to agree with TeamSoBe. I feel very strongly that the best place to meet these single guys would be a swingers club or a party. At least at the clubs you have the security of knowing "no means no". If the single guy doesn't listen they are thrown out.

My husband and I are fed up with them too. Most of them just don't get the point that we are not interested in them. It is truly a shame that these jerks give the good ones a bad name. We have met plenty of wonderful single men. However, we have met even more totally dishonest ones. The worst one was still wearing his ring and told me his wife had no idea where he was or what he was doing.



Tiffany

[Mariposa_y_Oso]

Ah yes...the single male. I read in another thread that finding an honest, open, "safe" single male is about as hard as finding the elusive (and so far as I know, mythological ) single female. Personally, I really enjoy seeing Mari with other guys and when we swing with couples, I'm usually too involved to really watch as I'd want to. I enjoy MFM threesomes, I like sharing her and pleasuring her with another guy. She's told me that she really feels like a movie star with all the attention, and hell, she deserves it. That having been said, we've had two experiences with single males and both of them have pretty much soured us on even attempting it again.

The first one was with a guy that initiated us into the lifestyle. He worked at a local swinger's club and was really great at answering all our questions and helping us feel at ease. You'd think that working in a club, he'd have more of a clue as to how the lifestyle works, but alas, it wasn't so. Our first experience with him was okay, even if Mari wasn't really attracted to him. He was respectful of our limits and boundries (which at that point was limited to oral). We had a good time the first time we met with him, and he said that the next time we all hooked up, he'd bring along his female friend (who we met at the club) and that we'd all play. According to him, this woman couldn't stop talking about us and she was really interested in being Mari's first bi experience. We arranged to meet at a restaurant. When he showed up, he was alone, explaining that his friend said she'd meet us all there. He "phoned" her several times and assured us that she'd be there soon. Meanwhile, he was being inappropriately affectionate to Mari in the restaurant and getting all ass-hurt that she wasn't responding to him. After an hour and a half/two hours, he tries calling again and says that she told him that she wouldn't be able to make it. He then asked if we just all wanted to go somewhere and play, just the three of us. I paid our check and we left. Later on, we had to completely block him from our email and IM and I had to get a bit "forceful" with him (verbally) because he just kept pushing for another meeting and admitted that he had "feelings" for Mari. We were honest and up front from the beginning that we are not into poly relationships and are not looking for that type of thing, but evidently, he thought that he was special. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are that it has webbed feet...

Our other experience was actually a near-experience, as we never met up with the guy. We were cruising through the profiles of people in one of the online groups we are members of, and this one guy really caught Mari's eye. He was a good looking guy, and one thing that really stood out about him was that in all his pics in the club photo album, he was dressed. He seemed like a nice, decent guy. So we IM'ed with him for a bit and once again, he came across as a great guy with one exception - he was married. One of the first rules that we agreed on when we first got into the lifestyle was that we would NOT be a party to any extra-marital affairs, no matter how wonderful/great looking/whatever the person was (either male or female). We have no desire to break up a marriage or relationship. We don't need that sort of bad karma. So when we he told us about this, we pretty much wrote him off, but we were polite enough to tell him our reasons and we kept in contact with him via email and occasionally IM. A couple of months went by and after playing with a couple of couples, Mari and I found ourselves really wanting a MFM threesome. After casually looking around at all our options, we came back around to this guy and started talking to him again. After much discussion, we decided that we'd play with this guy just once. We told him that this would just be a one time thing and that the only reason why we were even considering it was because Mari was really attracted to him and that we were in the mood for a MFM threesome. We set up a date a couple of weeks later to meet in a local bar to get aquainted and if things felt right, perhaps more. Well, during this time, we had to change the time, date, and place about 3 or 4 times because of "situations" that came up with him. Finally, Mari and I called the whole thing off. Our consciences got the better of us and we just couldn't go through with it, not to mention that both our bullshit alarms were blaring like the self-destruct alarms at the end of a bad sci-fi movie. We consider ourselves lucky that we didn't go through with it after all. Like I said, we don't really need any bad juju. Plus, once you disregard one of your basic rules, it's just that much easier to do it again. We were fortunate in that we learned a valuable lesson without having to pay much of a price at all...

At any rate, those are our two stories of personal experiences with single men. Are there single guys out there that are truely great guys with a firm grasp on the whole philosophy of the lifestyle? I'm sure there are. I'd like to think that if, god forbid, I should find myself single, that I would be one of those guys. Then again, Mari has trained me well and in addition to being housebroken, I can fetch a slipper like a mofo! We now just content ourselves on playing with couples and once we get to know them, arranging for threesomes among the four of us, where everyone will take turns sitting out for a bit while the other three play. Pretty much a win-win situation all the way around...

Cheers!
~Mike