Can I Ever find True love with a woman who enjoys this lifestyle?

[KingDavidI]

Originally Posted by KingDavidI

Hello! I am a single black college student living in grandrapids michigan and my question is can someone ever fall in love with a women who enjoys this lifestyle??? i mean most people think its all about sexxx and nothing else but i know deep down inside you can find someone who is exstremely sexually active and still have a normal loving,caring,committed relationship. (atleast thats what i tell myself) but anyway i want to here from someone who has or have had a longterm relationship with a female swinger i need to know if its possible because being committed to one person is hard and besides i wouldn't even know where to start looking most of the bi-women i've spoken too are already taken. it has to be more than sex involved Right????

my last relationship ended because the women i was with was a prude i love getting head and she told me it was ungodly and nasty and we only had sex like once a month. the strange part was she'd time the sex like i'll let you do it for maybe an hour or so and it was like pulling teeth and she'd give me the evil eye if i stared at a beer commerical to long or showed any enjoyment in sex what so ever. see it wasn't emotional to her it was just something people did, i don't even remember once thinking this was fun. but on the other hand she was a good person the sex just sucked!!!! and my problem is can i find the same good qualities i loved in her in a nympho......basically thats Kingdavid which is me is asking. maybe it is luck......but i was allways told to wait and you'll find someone but i've been waiting and waiting...and still waiting.

[KingDavidI]

so now you know..............

[KingDavidI]

Originally Posted by KingDavidI

so now you know..............

you can't just walk up to a women and talk about sex like that atleast how i was brought up. so then you don't say anything about and if had said something sooner you could have avoided the whole thing its like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.......

[Alura]

Tybee Swing wrote:

Mr. Alura,

Your story is beautiful, simply beautiful.

Wishing you both the best of everything,
TS

Thank you. When I was in my twenties, I never dared dream I would live such a life.

Mrs. Alura and I have for years discussed reincarnation. One theory exists that has the same "family group" interacting in different ways in different lifetimes. For instance, Mrs. Alura was my wife in this lifetime but may have previously been my Aunt, Sister or even a close male friend. We won't say we ascribe to the theory, but we would like it to be true. I have a date for sex in my next lifetime with a woman who was a dear friend in this one. I'm looking forward to that and wonder if she may be male and I female. Oh! What I could learn from that viewpoint!

Mr. Alura

[Alura]

Intuition897 wrote:

But there are many here whose relationships are just as precious.

I would go so far as to guess, Intuition, that there are a lot more people like that among swingers than the general population. My theory is that it takes such a relationship for a couple to successfully swing.

Mr. Alura

[Alura]

Spoomonkey wrote:

Hopefully in 26 years I can say that it is me, but after reading your story, yours is a relationship that we should all strive to build with our beloved.

Thanks, Spoo. I think y'all are definitely on your way. I always know, when I write about the subject of love, that you and Mrs. Spoo will understand.

Mr. Alura

[Alura]

Fun4Ds wrote:

alura we love you guys. your opinions have always been wise and heartfelt to us personally. we to share a 26 year marrage,we have been in the hospital ourselves latley.

Thanks, Fun4Ds. The era of our life which began with breast cancer has, oddly enough, been a very fulfilling stage of our marriage. I'm fortunate enough to be able to be her caregiver. We spend a lot of time together. We still talk constantly about many subjects and Mrs. Alura is fully involved in parenting our sons from her hospital bed. Life goes on as usual for the Alura family.

something i learned from my grandfather was to every day before we sleep i say i love you to my wife. best advice i every had in life. i always think that is what got us this far.

I doubt saying, "I love you" got you this far, Fun4Ds. It was more likely that you cared enough to remember to say it.

We've always said "I love you" many times every day, and kissed much more than our sons think is decent.

Mr. Alura

[Alura]

King David I wrote:

..and he's a poet too that how she gave it up like that( a nail driven in the coffin of love!!) great title for a song the rollingstone would love that if mick hasn't allready written it yet......thats wonderful

Y'know, Sire, I never thought of that. "Coffin of Love!" I'm leaving on the 3:47 flight to Nashville! (Anybody got a couch a hick Okie could sleep on for a few days?) I'd write more but I have to stop by the Quik Trip and pick up a pad and pen so I can fine tune the lyrics on the trip.

Thanks, Your Excellency!

Mr. Alura

[Alura]

King David wrote:

you can't just walk up to a women and talk about sex like that atleast how i was brought up. so then you don't say anything about and if had said something sooner you could have avoided the whole thing its like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.......

You're absolutely right, Your Highness. Sex should be about number twenty on the list, way behind "How did you grow up?" and "What are your hopes for your life?"

There is also a strict code of body language in our society that must be adhered to. I don't remember the exact results or where the research was done but it is vital that a couple hold hands with fingers interlaced before their first kiss. If you miss a step, you're considered too forward, almost dangerous.

Mr. Alura

[sereneiders]

Mr. Alura,

I disagree with your last post. There's nothing wrong about start talking sex before anything else.

I've heard someone say it would be better to have sex with someone and just after both feel sex is ok, get a date where to talk about everithing else. Today we do the talking first, selling our self image to the other one (who's doing the same selling effort), by the time we engage in something (let say, just a hot night) we have to deal with the misleading from the selling proccess, because we're starting to have our current experience with the "product" we just bought. Should this leads to deception, we may even regret the selling effor we engaged into at the first place.

I know the abobe proposal isn't realistic, but it's worth to show my point. Even when we were raised in certain manners "forbidding" us to be up front about certain things like our sexuality, we shouldn't asume everyone's else was raised the same way, or even if so, if they agree with these standards.

With my wife we didn't held hands with fingers interlaced before our first kiss, not even before having sex, we spend togheter 16 years since then and I am pretty sure we will spend the rest of our lifes togheter (I cannot think of myself without her). I don't know who made such a research, where it was done, when it was done, but the three questions are vital to put the research result in the proper context. Such a research could be done inside the Quaquers community (just as an stereotyped example, the first comming to my mind, and with my appologies if someone feels the example is offensive), in the 1920's, by people wanting their results to meet a conservative view point, and because of that be useless for liberal Sweedens today (just another stereotyped example).

What I resent from what you said is that you made a generalization with your own happiness and succesfull recipe. Even when we didn't held our hands like that, I consider ourselves highly romantic, and I cannot accept an affirmation allowing someone to supose we're not just because we didn't follow the same steps from that recipe.

How it is possible that being up front and honest, both to show yourself and to express your concerns (even those about these things we were not raised to talk about, which is also a way to show yoruself), could NECESARILY lead to disaster?

[fun4Ds]

alura, if you are ever in our area you would be more than welcome to the couch .actually our house would be your house . now about those words you have for music i have a gituar and can just about come up with a rythem to anything, been doing it with the family for years.never had a lesson it just happens.quite remarkable and strange. a gift my grandmother gave me early in life was the ability to listen. some people don't,wont or cant.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by KingDavidI

Hello! I am a single black college student living in grandrapids michigan and my question is can someone ever fall in love with a women who enjoys this lifestyle??? i mean most people think its all about sexxx and nothing else but i know deep down inside you can find someone who is exstremely sexually active and still have a normal loving,caring,committed relationship. (atleast thats what i tell myself) but anyway i want to here from someone who has or have had a longterm relationship with a female swinger i need to know if its possible because being committed to one person is hard and besides i wouldn't even know where to start looking most of the bi-women i've spoken too are already taken. it has to be more than sex involved Right????

Wow, KingDavidI, where do I even begin. It's like the old saying "if I have to explain it you wouldn't understand." What I hear you implying is that if a woman is sexually active enough to be a swinger that she isn't capable love loving one man, or she isn't worthy of being loved by a man. You have bought-in to the idea that a woman who enjoys sex can never be faithful.

But despite that, you want to find yourself a nice little bi-chick to settle down with so that you can have sex with her and her girlfriend (but che can't have sex with another man)... but they are all taken.

Why do you feel that you are capable of being that sexually open with other women and still love just your wife, but a woman isn't capable of being sexually open with other men and still only loving her husband?

is can i find the same good qualities i loved in her in a nympho...

The answer is "yes". Whether a woman is a "nympho" or not has no bearing on her ability to be loving and caring toward you as well as being funny, smart, interesting, beautiful, classy, and exciting.

Why wouldn't someone be able to fall in love with a woman that enjoys this lifestyle? What is wrong with a woman that enjoys this lifestyle that she can't be loved? Or can't love? Part of why I love Mrs. WS is because she does enjoy the Lifestyle and is that open and sexually free and still loves me above all others. Once again, something I don't know if I could explain well enough for you to understand.

Mrs. WS and I have a co-worker that feels this way. He knows Mrs. WS is bi and that we occasionally entertain another woman and thinks that is the coolest thing in the world. But, he couldn't respect her if he knew that we full swap, or as he puts it "another man was mowing my grass". I don't understand it. Western religion? Male insecurities? Probably both.

You're compartmentalizing each trait in a woman, not believing that a woman has the ability to be all those things in one. She either has to be one way or the other. It seems you do not believe that a woman is more then just the sum of her parts.

You need to do some real thinking about what a woman is before you are able to allow the right woman into your life. When you figure it out you'll be the happiest man in the world who is married to the most wonderful woman in the world. And that has nothing to do with swinging.

Mr. WS

[Alura]

Sereneiders wrote:

Today we do the talking first, selling our self image to the other one (who's doing the same selling effort), by the time we engage in something (let say, just a hot night) we have to deal with the misleading from the selling proccess,

Absolutely, Sereneiders! That is, indeed, the crux of the problem. We need less selling and more desire to communicate in this world.

I remember the body language research from a psychology course in college. It was, i'm sure, done in America so would only apply here. The point is that there are certain culture-based acts that we don't even realize we're doing that are key to forming a relationship within our own cultures.

Mr. Alura

[Alura]

Fun4Ds wrote:

alura, if you are ever in our area you would be more than welcome to the couch .actually our house would be your house . now about those words you have for music i have a gituar and can just about come up with a rythem to anything, been doing it with the family for years.never had a lesson it just happens.quite remarkable and strange. a gift my grandmother gave me early in life was the ability to listen. some people don't,wont or cant

Thanks for the offer of the couch, Fun4Ds! We return the invitation. Bring your guitar. The walls of our den are decked with six-string and bass guitars. Both our sons play. We can have a jam session! How are you with the Eagles' music?

Damn! I had to cancel the trip to Nashville. The boys and I have to go mow my widowed sister's lawn.

Mr. Alura

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by Alura

I remember the body language research from a psychology course in college. It was, i'm sure, done in America so would only apply here. The point is that there are certain culture-based acts that we don't even realize we're doing that are key to forming a relationship within our own cultures.

It's true, body language exists in every culture, altough the signs, the idioms, may vary from one to another, even at an individual level, and there's not such a thing as a body signs dictionary, moreover when interacting with others.

And I bleive I can tell because latin people like myself are more touchy people than people in the USA. In my country you have to be very aware of body language to be able to fit in, being touchy without invading personal space, to tell apart "proper" from "unproper" phisical contact, and when you're used to be closer to people (I mean, where otherwise, in the USA, would be taken for personal space disruption), you learn to read other signs telling you about the confort level people have with you being so close.

I could try to make a dictionary, let say: "someone cross his/her arms in front of his/her chest means a protective measure: you're too close and/or he/she feels too exposed", "someone shoove his/her hands in the front pockets means 1) the same than crossing his/her arms, just he/she's aware about the crossing arms sign and wouldn't like to send that message, 2) he/she's nervous about something and is aware his/her hands movements would let you know, and wants to keep that private". But even so, you cannot tell for sure if someone's attitude is a body sign or just a casuality (let say, the guy in front of you is crossing his arms because he wants to scratch disimulatedly an itching elbow).

Moreover, there are explicit signs we use to communicate ("thumbs up" for example) that we assume they have the same meaning across cultures, while we may be wrong about it. In countries with a lot of inmigration from several places around the world and high degree of integration of these inmigrants, you start noticing them. For example, Italians remarks an interrogation by raising the hand and joining all the the fingertips togheter in a nailed shape pointing upwards. They may do the same without talking, which would mean just "what?" or "why?". In Israel, Jewish people use the same sign to ask for a break or a pause. The Italian inmigration outnumbers the Jewish one here, so the first meaning is the "popular" one, but I onge had this Jewish girlfriend who used to make the same sing with the other meaning and it was pretty confusing to talk at first ("what the hell she doesn't understand from what I am telling?", then start explaining in depth while watching her get upset because she wanted me to STOP talking to say something herself, or the oposite, I didn't followed what she was telling me, made the sing for her to explain it in deepth, and watch her suddenly stop talking, expecting me to say something).

As cultures integrate and evolve, body language evolves. And even when I agree about holding hands crossing fingers have the caring to each other meaning you said, this doesn't mean it's the only way to mean the same, nor that it's required as a proff of will to care, like, "oh, if she hesitate to let me hold hands this way she doesn't like me" (and perhaps just because she have sweepy hands and that ashame her).

What worried me was the chance to mislead the OP about the body language importance, at the sight of his quiestions, given the lack of understanding and subtle prejudice towards women the questions had, that so well were pointed out in WesternSwing's post.

The OP prejudice doesn't belong to himself, it comes from the Victorian way to see women. The same question could be translated into a Victorian one "is a women who sit with her legs spreaded able to love?". Sitting with the legs spreaded is a body sign, by then an explicit one that was unacceptable from a "lady" (because she'd be saying "I am a whore"). The problem here isn't about body signs, moreover, by enhancing the importance of body signs we're shifting the focus from the main issue here:

The OP sees a swinger women as a "nympho", a subtle Victorian word for whores, and he is asking if a whore is able to love someone.

As swingers we should be telling him there's no such a thing like a "nympho", because that was a way to uderstand women sexual desires as an illness by the time it was politically wrong for women to express ANY sexual desire.

Times changed since that, women sexual desires aren't considered an "illness" anymore (not just by us, by the World Health Organization), and we, males, have to accept her right to have the same sort of sexual desires we allways have the right to have (like, ejoying multiple sexual partners) without punish them because of this, and that she deserve the same credit we have, about the hability to develop feelings WHILE taking adventage of these rights (unless you believe women are inherently evil, having the same "evilness" Eve supposedly had when taking the apple from the tree).

Besides that, that even a "proper" whore, one who sells "her body" for money, is able to develop feelings for someone and to make commitments with that one, even if she keeps selling herself (a notorious example of this is the marriages among porn actors and actresses).

So, by giving him "clues" about "proper" body language signs, when he doesn't understand this, isn't the sort of answer we, swingers, should be giving to him.