The Single Male who is Married

[BiDrywallChick]

Originally Posted by Atilla

ok, last night I was chatting with a guy who is married but his wife doesn't swing. I asked him if she knew what he was doing, he said yes she did and that she didn't have a problem with it as long as she knew where he was and when he would be getting home.

First off, that sounds like a Mother to me not a wife. My Mom always wanted to know where I was and what I was doing.

Secondly, is this common? I'm thinking that there can't be much of a marriage there if she's willing to let him go off on his own.

Also, gut instinct says NO, No, No to me

ahhh this is how our marriage works. We do play as a couple but we have also played alone. One of our rules is that the other person knows who we are with and where as well as time to expect him home. More of a saftey thing that anything else. As far as not being much of a marriage.. mine is pretty damn good. Just like any other alternative lifestyle.. not everyone is suited for it.. however after almost 13 years of playing this way.. it seems to suit us both well

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by JnCC

I'm not going to flame you for what your lifestyle choices are, because they are yours, and don't affect me in any way. Maybe God has given you an all-seeing, all-knowing perspective on humanity, along with a charter to pass judgement upon it. Not me...I just come to share thoughts and ideas, and to see how they compare to others. Including yours, which aside from the occasional sniping, are usually pretty valid.

-->I'm here to share thoughts and ideas as well. No, I can't say I see all and know all, and no, I don't think God has given me a charter to pass judjment on others. But I can say that I know the difference between right and wrong. All I know is if it all goes back to the golden rule, I sure as hell wouldn't want done unto me what so many cheaters do unto their spouses! Logically, cheating can't really be called a chosen marriage style, because the marriage is supposed to belong to two people, not just one. If both parties know about and tolerate one another's infidelity, it's called an "open" marriage. It's not my personal definition of a healthy relationship, but hey! it's NOMB, and it's their marriage to do with what they will. They're both adults, and they both choose to live by those rules. It's when one spouse is victimized by the other that I get upset with it. That's not a chosen lifestyle; somebody involved didn't get to make a decision.

Originally Posted by JnCC

Nobody, including the self-admited cheaters on this board, is asking you to condone their lifestyle. Nobody's asking you to "drop your pants" for them.

-->Ok, not me specifically, but I was commenting on how they seem to get their knickers in a knot and claim that we're all hypocrites because we choose not to play with them. They tell us to take a look in the mirror if we think we're so much better than they are. I take that to mean that they believe we're cheaters too. I think most of us can agree there is a distinction between cheating and swinging. We're offended by the insinuation because we all take great pride in the quality of our relationships with our spouses, and they - who do not - want to be accepted as one of 'the group' just because they can and do get laid by someone other than their spouse. Sorry, but the ability to get laid doesn't make someone a swinger.

Originally Posted by JnCC

The fact is that whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, cheating is a way of life for far more couples than swinging is. That's been true since the dawn of mankind, and will likely be a part of our mating strategy until the last homo-sapien on earth falls dead.

-->Sad, but true. I'm sorry JnCC, I think I've misinterpreted your view all along. I had the idea that you were expecting us to accept cheaters with open arms. I see now that you're just saying that we should acknowledge that it's out there and will always be out there. I have no problem accepting that. Just the same as accepting that there are murderers, child molesters, rapists and war. It's out there, but I don't have to like it, and I sure as hell don't have to let it's ugliness come through my door. If those that we turn away take offense to that, and want to know why we wouldn't play with them, I have no qualms at all about telling them exactly why. It may be part of Darwin's evolutionary plan, but being the idealist that I am, I'd like to think we could, as a whole, strive to rise above such behaviour. The truth, of course, is that humans are flawed creatures. This could easily delve into religious issues, which I won't get into here.

Originally Posted by JnCC

Don't blame me for all the cheating that's going on in the world. I'm just callin' 'em like I see 'em. I didn't invent cheating and I certainly don't condone it. The fact that I originally sought out the Lifestyle as a way of discouraging it in my own marriage, even when "options" were available, should be evidence enough that I don't think cheating is a long-term solution to keeping a marriage alive and interesting.

JnCC, I certainly don't blame you for all the cheating that goes on. I'm callin' 'em like I see 'em too. I think where we differ is that you don't feel you have a right to hold it against someone, whereas I feel (if they make it our business by wanting to play with us) that I do. Again, just personal choices I hate fighting; can't we all just get along??.. lol

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by intuition897

I hate fighting; can't we all just get along??.. lol

Darlin', we get along. If I thought you were totally daffy, I wouldn't take the time to read everything you write. And if I didn't read it, I couldn't respond to it now, could I?

I think that comparing cheaters to "child molesters and rapists" might be a little bit of a stretch. Statistically, about 70% of all men and 50% of all women will cheat on their spouse at some point during the course of their marriage. Obviously, they won't commit rape or molest children in the same numbers or to the same effect, but I get your point. As part of a couple in the Lifestyle, and now, as a single male in the vanilla world, I decline about half of the offers I receive to "date." Knowing that the other person (or persons) are being deceptive to another is as good a reason as any to pass on them. So is that fact that they're chain smokers or heavy drinkers, but I don't lump them into quite the same category that I do murderers.

(Maybe I should...they're killing themselves and everybody around them who has to breathe that shit or share the road with them. But I digress...)

You raised another point...that cheaters "get their knickers in a knot and claim that we're all hypocrites because we choose not to play with them." My guess is that most of the people you're talking to are men, and that theyt're getting the same answer from most of the people they're contacting. If so, it makes perfect sense. Males of any species typically show aggression when faced with a shortage of available, mating females. The key word is "mating" females...put 5,000 male soldiers on an overseas military base, and everybody gets along just fine. Add a couple hundred females (enough so that a guy might have a chance at one of them), and the fighting starts. I've seen it in the military, in swing clubs, and in resorts where there are too many single men and not enough women. "Thinning our own ranks" is just one of those unpleasant little evolutionary things we males tend to do. In similar circumstances, you girls do the same thing, the difference being that you do it by forming secret little clubs and societies, gossip, and the occasional catfight.

You know...I come here to read viewpoints other than my own as much as I do those with which I agree. I would hate to go through life with a view of the world that was limited to only that which I could see with my own eyes, and an understanding of my fellow man which was limited to only that which I could deduce from my own experience.

"That we differ in our ways, I hope we pardon one another. Men go to China, both by the Straights, and by the Cape"
John Donne (1573-1631)
Poet and Theologian

[DBL D]

I've always had loose morals-but they still count as morals, don't they?

My ethics, however are very strong.

It is a simple decision: play with them or don't-a preference issue.

Male D

[mf69_98]

Let me bounce this out & see what you all say. My wife has entered into a polyamory relationship with a guy. She has said she'd like me to find a lady to play with when she's off with her lover. So, this basically makes me a married, single guy in that situation. I have her OK & she will play with couples from time to time, but prefers to spend her playtime with her lover for the time being. So....how would people react to this type of situation? I am interested in finding a playmate at some point, but have found it to be very hard to do, for just the stated reasons above.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by mf69_98

Let me bounce this out & see what you all say. My wife has entered into a polyamory relationship with a guy. She has said she'd like me to find a lady to play with when she's off with her lover. So, this basically makes me a married, single guy in that situation. I have her OK & she will play with couples from time to time, but prefers to spend her playtime with her lover for the time being. So....how would people react to this type of situation? I am interested in finding a playmate at some point, but have found it to be very hard to do, for just the stated reasons above.

I'd say your best bet is, without being too aggressive about it, being upfront about it with potential playmates. If you are comfortable in your lifestyle, it should show. One good strategy to remember is to let them know right away that, yes, your wife has actually encouraged you to do this, as she chooses to do the same. AND that she would be willing to meet with them to vouch for you. THAT's the key, I think. The old story goes "Yes my wife knows, she lets me play alone", "Can we meet her to ensure that this is true, and that she's not being coerced somehow?", "Well, she doesn't like to know who I play with/is too busy to arrange to meet/insert excuse of your choice here". And the couple or playmate goes "Uh-huh, yeah. Right." Do you both play together at times? If that's the case, it might make things easier for you in that you can 'advertise' yourselves as a couple who can either play together or play separately. I think the thing that most people steer away from is the stench of an unhealthy relationship. If your relationship with your wife is close and intimate and healthy, and you can prove it, you should find it less difficult to have some fun.

[tweedle]

I can relate to what you're saying, toby...

It never ceases to amaze me when folks out of the mainstream get judgemental...

It's like gays bashing transvestites, in my book... Or maybe nudists criticizing those who wear fig leaves...

Most folks hope for non-judgemental acceptance.

It's disappointing when communities, like this, seem clickish and non-open.

I feel your pain.

~ tweedle ~ Bearer of the truth, in some instances !!!

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by tweedle

I can relate to what you're saying, toby...

It never ceases to amaze me when folks out of the mainstream get judgemental...

It's like gays bashing transvestites, in my book... Or maybe nudists criticizing those who wear fig leaves...

Most folks hope for non-judgemental acceptance.

It's disappointing when communities, like this, seem clickish and non-open.

I feel your pain.

~ tweedle ~ Bearer of the truth, in some instances !!!

Again with the judgmental bit. Clickish and non-open? tweedle, I read your initial post here on the board, and it would seem to me that you're falling into the same trap that other cheaters do: as long as you have a good excuse, it makes everything ok and makes you a good person. As Julie had replied in that thread, you DO have other options. No one is holding a gun to your head, nor chaining you down. You CAN leave. Anytime you want to. I have kids too, and I know that if the need arose for Mr. and I to go our separate ways, though it may be stressful for them, kids are more resilient than we give them credit for. Adults owe themselves and each other a certain respect as well, and we are each responsible for our own happiness.

You're going to do whatever you're going to do, but don't blame US for not condoning it.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by intuition897

I think the thing that most people steer away from is the stench of an unhealthy relationship.

I think you've summed up in one line what it's taken others volumes to explain about marrieds who play solo. The only thing I would add is that there's a natural tendency to perceive any relationship outside our own personal "norm" as somehow "unhealthy." Most couples do not play separately, ergo...


"Red meat isn't bad for you. Now blue-green meat is another story. That's bad for you..."

Tommy Smothers
Comedian and folk singer

[DBL D]

Originally Posted by JnCC

"Red meat isn't bad for you. Now blue-green meat is another story. That's bad for you..."

Tommy Smothers
Comedian and folk singer

Well, blue-green meat IS bad for you!

Male D

[intuition897]

I dunno. I think my definition of unhealthy is pretty universal: speaking of relationships, if there is indifference or apathy towards one's partner, if there is hatred or a persistent feeling of aggravation toward him or her, if one's actions/thoughts/feelings need to be hidden from one's partner, if either partner is self-centered rather than spouse-centered, AND if one has little to no respect for one's self, I consider these to be signs of unhealthiness. There's lots more, but this is just what I could think of off the top of my head. If anyone can show me a "cheater's" marriage without any of these traits, I'll concede and say that cheating is a valid lifestyle choice.

[mf69_98]

Originally Posted by intuition897

I'd say your best bet is, without being too aggressive about it, being upfront about it with potential playmates. If you are comfortable in your lifestyle, it should show. One good strategy to remember is to let them know right away that, yes, your wife has actually encouraged you to do this, as she chooses to do the same. AND that she would be willing to meet with them to vouch for you. THAT's the key, I think. The old story goes "Yes my wife knows, she lets me play alone", "Can we meet her to ensure that this is true, and that she's not being coerced somehow?", "Well, she doesn't like to know who I play with/is too busy to arrange to meet/insert excuse of your choice here". And the couple or playmate goes "Uh-huh, yeah. Right." Do you both play together at times? If that's the case, it might make things easier for you in that you can 'advertise' yourselves as a couple who can either play together or play separately. I think the thing that most people steer away from is the stench of an unhealthy relationship. If your relationship with your wife is close and intimate and healthy, and you can prove it, you should find it less difficult to have some fun.

I've been trying to start some chats with some women who interest me, but we never seem to get very far - they either don't respond at all or once they realize I'm married, they take off. I've only run into one lady that hung around long enough to chat with my wife. In fact the two of them setup the time & date when I first met the other lady!

[DBL D]

Originally Posted by mf69_98

...I've only run into one lady that hung around long enough to chat with my wife. In fact the two of them setup the time & date when I first met the other lady!

The proof is in the pudding! facelick

male D

[toby962]

Originally Posted by Mrs Spoomonkey

I'm not real sure I understand why you stay married then. I mean I'm all for working things out if you can before going the divorce route,but it sounds like there is nothing to work out. I mean you wouldn't even have to divide assests, since you both already have your own separate residents, etc.
Why wouldn't you want to free yourselves to look for someone to have a solid marriage with

Mrs Spoomonkey

We stay together for all the right reasons.
#1 We love each other very much.
#2 For our children.
#3 For medical benifits
#4 My wife thinks its nattuaral for males to want more sex.
#5 She knows I have had girlfreinds in the past, I get a wink & a smile.
#6 Why destroy a relationship that works, mabye not the one you THINK should work.
#7 I'm far away from her now for business reasons.

[toby962]

I changed my status from single to married single