The Single Male who is Married

[wetpanties]

A Married man claiminy to be single is just another cheating husband! That's where it begins and ends.

[satxron]

I generally don't post here but:

Its all silly supposition. Do you want to marry the guy or play with the guy? You have no obligation in either area. Play or not, stop judging his marriage or his morals. Is judgement what this forum is about?

Its not a delema at all. You choose. If he cheats he is the loser you still got played. If she lets him cheat he is not cheating is he? If she doesn't swing and he does is that bad? If it is then lets talk about the morality of bi swingers. Lets get into women on women, yuk! thats horrible. Just kidding.

You guys don't want to be judged yet you sit in judgement.

I am shocked! Amazing how those who would not be judged sit in judgement.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by Atilla

I was chatting with a guy who is married but his wife doesn't swing.... I'm thinking that there can't be much of a marriage there if she's willing to let him go off on his own.

there can't be much of a marriage there...

Funny...that's what my vanilla friends say about swingers, what swingers say about cheaters, and what cheaters say about non-swingers. It's what some swingers say about couples who entertain singles, and what some of those singles are saying behind the backs of those couples. I've given up trying to determine what constitutes a "good" marriage anymore.

I read that about 1-2% of the general population could be considered "swingers" at any given time, and that only about half of all married people consider themselves truly "happy" in their relationship. That leaves a lot of people stuck somewhere in-between...not "unhappy" enough to leave their marriage, but not "happy" enough not to consider some alternatives.

If it works for them, the details aren't important. If it doesn't, one of them will leave. It's really just that simple...

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by satxron

Its all silly supposition. Do you want to marry the guy or play with the guy? You have no obligation in either area. Play or not, stop judging his marriage or his morals. Is judgement what this forum is about?

No - but it is a forum about ideas, preferences, "how to"s and what nots. As a swinging couple, if a guy came to us and told us he was married, but playing alone - our interest in swinging simply wouldn't be there.

That's OUR preference. He may feel judged, discriminated against or maybe even unloved - but that's really his problem. He is choosing to feel that way - just as he is choosing his play situation. He can let it be a problem - or he can find a way to get over it and do something more about his situation than just finding a peice of ass on the side...

I think the value of a board like this, for anyone, is it provides an honest look at how people think about the lifestyle. People get offended because the swinging world won't bend it's rules to fit their situations. Instead of being offended, they need to read the advice and try to learn something from it. There are a lot of successful relationships represented here - and while we may not open our beds to everyone (kind of strange that people would get so bent out of shape about that) we do have a lot to offer, if people would just learn to listen.

Originally Posted by satxron

You guys don't want to be judged yet you sit in judgement.

I don't know about that...

Judge us...

Might be fun

Spoomonkey

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

No - but it is a forum about ideas, preferences, "how to"s and what nots. As a swinging couple, if a guy came to us and told us he was married, but playing alone - our interest in swinging simply wouldn't be there.

That's OUR preference. He may feel judged, discriminated against or maybe even unloved - but that's really his problem. He is choosing to feel that way - just as he is choosing his play situation. He can let it be a problem - or he can find a way to get over it and do something more about his situation than just finding a pice of ass on the side...

-->Exactly. If cheaters don't want to be judged, don't cheat. JnCC has posted numerous times before about how cheating is a valid lifestyle choice, but I just don't buy it. IMO, it's a coward's way of dealing with very large problems. There. I said it. Let the flaming begin, JnCC. My reasoning is that you either ARE married or you are NOT. Which is it? Nobody ever, EVER has to be married. I mean what the hell are divorce lawyers for, then? And I don't accept the whining about the fact that a couple has kids, or that it's too expensive to divorce. ??? Lots of people have kids and jobs and other responsibilities. I think the mistake is in making your marriage one of your lower priorities. While our kids are a close second (meaning we'd gladly give our lives for our kids, and choosing between their SAFETY and our relationship they come first), our marriage is our #1 priority. I'd rather see my kids in hand-me-downs and growing up with a parent they can look up to for his or her strength and integrity, than living in a house with two people who they KNOW don't love each other anymore (kids know, they're not stupid). As far as I'm concerned, there is no acceptable excuse for "settling" for a marriage which necessitates cheating. And if you're that separated that you consider yourself single, why not just have done with it instead of dragging things out? If neither half gives a damn anymore, what's the point?

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

People get offended because the swinging world won't bend it's rules to fit their situations. Instead of being offended, they need to read the advice and try to learn something from it. There are a lot of successful relationships represented here - and while we may not open our beds to everyone (kind of strange that people would get so bent out of shape about that) we do have a lot to offer, if people would just learn to listen.

-->Yeah, Spoo, I don't get this one either. But you're right on the mark. I guess the assumption that we've all thrown caution to the wind would mean that our morals and ethics have gone out the window too. So apparently, we're supposed to just drop our pants if someone propositions us. Is that how it works?

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

I don't know about that...

Judge us...

Might be fun

Spoomonkey

That's funny. I'm in, too. Put me in the hotseat.

[satxron]

Thats not the topic folks. The topic is " He is married " He said he was married! He is not trying to trick this person in any way. At that point its a judgement call not a moral one. Its up to the recipient of the proposition to decide what is right.

As we are not the players, our opinions don't matter do they?

Action between consenting adults is fun. Simply that, no more, no less. If there would be emotional baggage from it then it should not be done.

I wish I had a buck for every mercy screw I saw the female partner give up for her hubby to get lucky. Now that makes me ill! But I keep it to myself normally.

The best advise in this thread has been given. Do what you are confortable with. What others think makes absolutely no difference because they do not walk in your shoes.

The problem with advice with what you would do is somebody may take it. That is a great responsibility not to be taken lightly.

[Ssugarlips]

My husband and I have an open marriage where we each select our own lovers. Most of the time we see them individually, but we also enjoy threesomes on occasion...MFM and FMF. Couples are unfamiliar to us for the same reasons listed in one of the posts on this thread.

We also want our lovers to be long-term relationships in our life and that includes more than meeting for sex. In our case, when either of us takes a new lover, they have to meet our spouse, no exceptions. If the prospective lover isn't comfortable, then they don't become our lover. If my husband or I get some weird vibe from the person, then we have the right to say no to this particular person. So far, neither one of has exercised the veto right, but it's there and everyone is aware of the possibility.

[Mrs Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by toby962

as soon as I started on this website I was found out that I was married and signed in as a single. It was no big deal finding out , I talked about my wife in my profile. A member suggested I say married but playing alone. I listed myself as single because that is how I feel single and VERY alone. MY wife lives hundreds of miles away, we never see each other, we don't have sex anymore. We are very sepparated. Not everybody lives the perfect life. I'm sorry for not having a wife with me. What else could I do? I thought swingers may have been a good idea but popular opinion is deffinitly against me.

I'm not real sure I understand why you stay married then. I mean I'm all for working things out if you can before going the divorce route,but it sounds like there is nothing to work out. I mean you wouldn't even have to divide assests, since you both already have your own separate residents, etc.
Why wouldn't you want to free yourselves to look for someone to have a solid marriage with

Mrs Spoomonkey

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by intuition897

And if you're that separated that you consider yourself single, why not just have done with it instead of dragging things out? If neither half gives a damn anymore, what's the point?

I am not sure that every couple with a "I play with his/her permission" arrangement should get a divorce - and I don't think that is what you are saying either. Couples have the right to define their marriage boundaries as they see fit; just as we have the right to include others in our play, any other couple has the right to make choices for themselves.

If that means that some husbands play without their wives - that is fine... They won't be involved with us - and their options will be limited in the lifestyle (not impossible, but limited) - but they do have the right to tread that road if they wish.

If what they are doing is cheating - hurting a wife and children in the process - then my respect for them couldn't be any lower. But, that is a decision that they WILL have to live with - from what they will face in the painful divorce process anyway (yeah, wives who have been cheated on can ask for one, too) to the loss of respect that they will have with their children.

Originally Posted by intuition897

-->Yeah, Spoo, I don't get this one either. But you're right on the mark. I guess the assumption that we've all thrown caution to the wind would mean that our morals and ethics have gone out the window too. So apparently, we're supposed to just drop our pants if someone propositions us. Is that how it works?

Not only that - but also our discretion, discernment, standards and interests...

What I don't understand is - when people get upset that a swinging couple won't play with them for whatever reason - why don't they get upset at monogamous couples? Those stingy bastards won't sleep with anyone...

Originally Posted by intuition897

That's funny. I'm in, too. Put me in the hotseat.

My guess is - any "hot seat" you could be put in would only get hotter with you in it...



Spoomonkey

[Mrs Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by satxron

Thats not the topic folks. The topic is " He is married " He said he was married! He is not trying to trick this person in any way. At that point its a judgement call not a moral one. Its up to the recipient of the proposition to decide what is right.

As we are not the players, our opinions don't matter do they?

The best advise in this thread has been given. Do what you are confortable with. What others think makes absolutely no difference because they do not walk in your shoes.

The problem with advice with what you would do is somebody may take it. That is a great responsibility not to be taken lightly.

True but our thoughts (advice if you will) was asked for by Atilla and it's up to her whether or not she wants to take it. This board is for open discussion, advice, and debating thoughts and opinions. Once the poster has gotten what they wanted or needed there is nothing wrong with continued discussion as it might help others in the future by hearing ALL sides and options to a topic.

Mrs Spoomonkey

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by satxron

At that point its a judgement call not a moral one. Its up to the recipient of the proposition to decide what is right.

In that case, I expect to be judged. Some women my judge me too short (5'9") or too outgoing (that makes some folks uptight). In the same way, we pass judgement on our propective partners - we have certain physical and personality standards. We've also chosen to have standards as they relate to relationships. In our mind, I don't see that being any different than rejecting a guy because he smells like cheese...

Spoomonkey

[Mrs Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Ssugarlips

My husband and I have an open marriage where we each select our own lovers. Most of the time we see them individually, but we also enjoy threesomes on occasion...MFM and FMF. Couples are unfamiliar to us for the same reasons listed in one of the posts on this thread.

We also want our lovers to be long-term relationships in our life and that includes more than meeting for sex. In our case, when either of us takes a new lover, they have to meet our spouse, no exceptions. If the prospective lover isn't comfortable, then they don't become our lover. If my husband or I get some weird vibe from the person, then we have the right to say no to this particular person. So far, neither one of has exercised the veto right, but it's there and everyone is aware of the possibility.

Okay I have to ask, did you just fall into this type of arrangement as a couple or did you get the idea from the book "Ethical Slut"? I ask because I read the book and while Mr Spoo and I don't choose to have this kind of arrangement I respected the overall concept in the book. It is all about respect, trust and honesty with your playmates and most importantly with your "primary SO" as they put it. The book covers all types of arrangements and lifestyles (single, couples, poly, bi, transvestite, etc) most of which didn't apply or interest us but the book made some great points about relationships.

It sounds like you have a great one and have found what works for you.

Mrs Spoomonkey

[WesternSwing]

I would think if they are not swingers and he really is allowed to play alone, it would open up a whole can of trouble in the future. I don't know of any relationships like that. Now I do know of several swing couples that one member of the couple is allowed to play alone and the other has no desire to. But, I think this different because most of the time they are in the lifestyle together.

So I would believe that A) he is lying or B) he has her permission but it will blow-up in his (and someone else's) face eventually. Either way, good reasons to steer clear of this guy.

Mr. WS

[Ssugarlips]

Originally Posted by Mrs Spoomonkey

Okay I have to ask, did you just fall into this type of arrangement as a couple or did you get the idea from the book "Ethical Slut"? I ask because I read the book and while Mr Spoo and I don't choose to have this kind of arrangement I respected the overall concept in the book. It is all about respect, trust and honesty with your playmates and most importantly with your "primary SO" as they put it. The book covers all types of arrangements and lifestyles (single, couples, poly, bi, transvestite, etc) most of which didn't apply or interest us but the book made some great points about relationships.

It sounds like you have a great one and have found what works for you.

Mrs Spoomonkey

Actually, the book is on my list to read. An on-line friend who lives a polyamourous life recommended it to me. I need to make time to read it.

As far as our marital arrangement goes, we sort of worked out the kinks as we went along. We lived a traditional monogomous marriage for the first 20+ years. We started seriously talking about other partners in 1997, but didn't really take the final step until 2000.

One of the things my husband said at the very beginning of this journey was, "A little extra sex isn't going to hurt us." He was right. We both acknowledge that our extra relationships evolve into more than just sex; but extra people to love in our life doesn't diminish or detract from the love/desire we share for each other.

I can't imagine a man more suited to be my life's companion than my husband; he feels the same way about me. However, taking other lovers has allowed us to learn/explore our individual sexuality and to grow as human beings. We've always worked at communicating with one another, but the last 5 years have enhanced our closeness to one another and honed our communication skills.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by intuition897

JnCC has posted numerous times before about how cheating is a valid lifestyle choice, but I just don't buy it. IMO, it's a coward's way of dealing with very large problems. There. I said it. Let the flaming begin, JnCC.

I'm not going to flame you for what your lifestyle choices are, because they are yours, and don't affect me in any way. Maybe God has given you an all-seeing, all-knowing perspective on humanity, along with a charter to pass judgement upon it. Not me...I just come to share thoughts and ideas, and to see how they compare to others. Including yours, which aside from the occasional sniping, are usually pretty valid.

Nobody, including the self-admited cheaters on this board, is asking you to condone their lifestyle. Nobody's asking you to "drop your pants" for them. The fact is that whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, cheating is a way of life for far more couples than swinging is. That's been true since the dawn of mankind, and will likely be a part of our mating strategy until the last homo-sapien on earth falls dead.

Don't blame me for all the cheating that's going on in the world. I'm just callin' 'em like I see 'em. I didn't invent cheating and I certainly don't condone it. The fact that I originally sought out the Lifestyle as a way of discouraging it in my own marriage, even when "options" were available, should be evidence enough that I don't think cheating is a long-term solution to keeping a marriage alive and interesting.