Married man, has wife's permission, but still...

[Indiguy]

I was reading a post on this subject - I completely empathize with Avanti100 and want to reopen the thread "How do i get involved"...

Here's my situation:
My sex life is pretty good, considering that this is our 10th year of marriage. My wife says she's pretty satisfied, esp. since she's finding out that not all of her friends get to orgasm with their husbands...whereas she routinely does, with me. I've asked her in a number of ways - for the variety, for the size, for the thrill, etc. - over a period of two years, and she has made it clear that she doesn't want it. But she has made it clear, too, again, over a period of two years, that she has no problem if I want to explore my curiosity on my own, with other women.

So, this essentially makes me a single male. Actually, worse - this makes me look like a "cheating" husband.

But I find this completely insulting - and rather unfortunate. Here's why:

1) Everyone will have their own motives for wanting to explore partners outside of their marriage. In the same way, if someone doesn't want (e.g., my wife) anything outside, that should be fine, too...

2) Just as communication is important between swinging partners, it's equally important when one partner wants to and the other permits...perhaps, more important. And I fully realize this...

3) So, now, the problem is merely verifying if this situation is true or not - which is quite simple. If everyone is comfortable, a meeting could be arranged, and it should become clear that the married man (me, e.g.) has the wife's permission. Instead, it seems that everyone has this notion that a married man trying to find outside pleaure is somehow "cheating", and all the advice that's given follows from this assumption...It's not fair...

Here's why I find this situation unfortunate:

Just as my wife respects my desires and encourages me to try things outside, I feel I must respect her choice for not meeting other men for sex. If I don't, then I may have to persuade her to consider the lifestyle, so that I don't appear like a cheating husband - obviously that's not on!

The swinging community folks are supposed to be trendsetters and pathbreakers in finding new ways of dealing with our pleasure urges, while keeping the family intact. The fact that they take a risk (of going against conventional morals) shows that they are willing to look at things without the burden of traditional baggage. If that is the case, then why should married men seeking pleasure outside home be looked at with suspicion? There are cheating husbands - but there are also men who have their wifes' permission...

What is missing is a suitable bracket, or a label, for such folks... There are forums for husbands with hotwives, and there are forums for cuckolds - and these are accepted categories. But what about married men who have their wifes' permission to seek pleasure outside?

And, let me tell you - married men, who have their wifes' permission, can be great company - not just for couples, but even for the single women out there - if only they can drop their suspicion and see for themselves...

EVERY Married male we have chatted with has done it with out their wives permission.
How do we know?
We ask to speak to the wife and never hear from them again.
A married man who has permmission to play alone when his wife does not play at all is such a rareity it is impossible to meet it without some skeptism(SP?).

Add that to all the married males who try to pretend they do have their wives permission and you get the situation you are in.
I think the blame lies with all the married males who are trying to get away with something behind their wives back.
Not the swingers who see it time & time again and decide to avoid the situation entirely by avoiding any married male who wants to play alone.

[stoutgatte]

Yeah, Dito to what Mr Naughty has to say...

No one will call you a cheater if they can call up/meet your wife and chat with her... Sadly, in most (almost all) cases this won't happen, because the men ARE cheating...

[xxoticangel]

We have played with one married man that had his wife's permission. How do we know? After the four of us had Angel's birthday dinner and returned to our house for the "party" she kissed Angel, told her to have a good time and left. She had also written "Happy Birthday" on her husband's stomach and tied a red ribbon around his cock. Later found out that it was "that time" and she wasn't feeling well but didn't want to spoil the party. Other than that we always ask to speak with the guys wife but for some reason she is never available.

[Alura]

Men alone offer a whole lot less than couples. I'm sorry your wife doesn't want to play, but why should we bother with a lone male who can only offer an MFM when we can find a couple who can offer MFMF, MFM and FMF? It's just not worth the bother when most married men playing on their own are cheating anyway.

Why put forth the effort for a second-rate experience?

This is my opinion alone. All playcouples do not feel this way. That's okay.

Mr. Alura

[2play04]

We're pretty new to swinging and not taking single men/married cheating men/married 'permission granted' men at all. At this point in time it would leave my husband out in the cold. We joined this lifestyle together, and unfortunately a man in your situation cannot offer him anything. (as he is not bi)

Maybe as we grow and learn in this lifestyle we will feel comfortable with swinging with singles.

However, in your situation and in the situation of married men who *are* cheating...there is also another reason why we would not consider a sexual situation.

It's all tied together with a gut feeling I get when faced with stories like your own. Though your wife knows, though this is 'open' I-feel-uneasy about the situation.

I put myself in the shoes of the spouse who is at home and I find myself feeling bad. I can only imagine sitting home alone frustrated and worried. Even though she is choosing this...I can only see this being a slightly unpleasant to a very unpleasant situation for her. How can it feel good to be left out of something like this, even though it is her choice?

(I am *not* speaking of couples in which both members swing, and occasionally choose to without the other - I would assume in those cases they are sharing their fun exploits with each other in an open fashion. They are also both equally expanding and exploring sexually...it is not an unbalanced equation as a married man/wife always at home seems.)

Also, as has been touched above...do you know how many cheating and lying married men are out there? Yes, it is true for *you* that your wife knows, but it's so hard to *know this as a fact* when meeting people online... Mere words do not assure when others are giving the same while lying through their teeth.

Basically, if we do start swinging with single units, I will choose actual single men. There's the added bonus that they probably aren't getting any at home and it's a way for me to spread the love.

[N&G]

If I take your post at face value and assume that you are being honest I would suggest looking for a single woman to hitch up with for swinging purposes. This enables you to play as a couple or separately and if it's a slow week you can always play with each other . Of course there will be couples that will not play with arranged relationships but there are plenty who will and don't care about marital status. Don't expect instant results, this may take a while.

Greg

[stoutgatte]

Good advice N&G, we wouldn't play with them, but I know people who will...

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Indiguy

...It's not fair...

You are right...

It is not fair...

But - one more time for old times' sake - many swingers chose not to swing with partnered singles. Just as you have the right as a couple to decide what is right for the two of you - we have the right to decide what is right for the two of us. We are not violating your freedom to play in anyway - but, admittedly, we are not really helping your situation.

MOST of the time, this cockandbull story is just that - cockandbull... It is always similar with few variations...

So if we are suspicious, blame it on the whole "one bad apple" theory... Except, in this case, it is more like "one good apple" in a rather putrid barrell...

But let's assume that your situation is as you say.

Your wife is happy with just you - but is also happy with you playing solo.

Without a doubt, you will probably find people to go along with that.

But - and I think this is perfectly obvious by the responses already - generally swingers just aren't going to go there. Even if the situation is legit...

Here's why:

It is a simple matter of economy.

There are tons of single guys out there - TONS! Sure - you have to do a lot of "catch and release" because there isn't a lot of quality out there - but still, they are out there. If you rise to the top and are, in fact, a quality guy, you are still in the company of a pretty good handfull.

Guy "A" - we'll call him "Guy 'A'" - is a single guy. No complications, no attachments, no problems... The steps to a great experience are simple:

1. Meet him
2. Decide if there is chemistry
3. Have fun (maybe)

Guy "B" - we'll call him "Pam" - is a married guy playing single. A little bit more tricky to navigate with this fellow. The steps are as follows:

1. Meet him
2. Decide if there is chemistry
3. Meet his wife and get her permission
4. Decide if we - as a couple - are comfortable with the whole vibe
5. Have fun (Maybe)

See? two awkward, time consuming steps more... Why bother?

The problem with this debate - which keeps turning up, like a bad penny - is that it asks swingers to violate rules and agreements that they - as a couple - have made. It asks us to suspend the fact that we are in this for us and begin to evaluate the circumstances and issues of everyone else. And this isn't like auditions for American Idol - we don't have to subject ourselves to every lousy performance or plea for an audience. You see - by the time we figure out that everything is on the up and up - we could have had a handful of experiences with legitimate singles. Again - why bother?

I can accept that some couples' rules make it difficult for some people to get involved. To be honest - our rules are terribly unfair to those with bad hygiene. But asking us to compromise our comfort zones and interests is not particularly fair either. And I doubt any more beating of this dead horse is going to get more married guys a little action on the side. I think every time it pops up, it just strengthens our position.

Spoomonkey

[LikeMinds321]

Indiguy -

Something that hasn't been mentioned is how your being a lone swinger could effect your marriage. Since you say your wife has no interest in swinging, is she going to want to hear about your swinging activities? If not, swinging alone would be living a life separate from your wife.

This sounds like a wedge that could bust a marriage apart.

LM

[lovefest04]

Hi there everyone,

We have had three encounters with a "married man" who claimed his wife wasn't into playing but sort of knew he did. After talking and learning more and more about him, it is our conclusion that he is married and cheating. How can he prove us wrong. Simple: Let's ALL get together and talk about it.

We have no problem with a married man if the wife is part of the conversations. My own wife has said many times she's willing to share me, and has in fact made a few contacts and offered to send me without her.

Indiguy, if we all met and your wife gave us all her permission, we'd love to play with you. So, my advise is to be upfront, open, honest and have your wife get on the phone or better yet sit down over drinks in person. Bring you ID's so that you can prove she is who she says she is.

After writing that last sentence, I realize I have a lot of distrust around this issue as well. Open honest communication is the key. Remember, this couple is inviting you into THEIR sacred playground.

Lovefest04

[Indiguy]

First of all, I want to thank you all for taking the time to reply. I think I see your point of view - and it just occurred to me that if my wife indeed is ready for the lifestyle, and if we come across a married man in my situation, I might perhaps feel the same way that most of you folks do (unless I happen to know this man personally).

That said, I just wanted to make a clarification here:
I posted on this subject, not so much from frustration at not finding anyone to swing with, but more as a reaction to one response I got online from a couple who thought I was one of those "cheating husbands". Of course, based on subsequent correspondence, he (the husband) even apologized to me, which I think was extremely nice of him to do. About a year ago, I got a similar response from a single woman who thought I was cheating on my wife. It is a fact (for me, definitely) that I am not cheating, but I have to face the reality - how would the other person know? And, obviously, it is important for them to know. So, I guess I need to find alternatives to the online search. Also, I guess I shouldn't be offended by someone suspecting me to be a cheating husband - but that is going to take some work Actually, I have mentioned on my personal ad that my potential "friends" could meet my wife if they want to.


Also, I want to respond to a comment that my swinging alone could affect my marriage:
My wife and I have talked about this subject, regularly, for two years. I have told her on several occasions that I am perfectly ready for her to experience another man - this is our tenth year of marriage, and we have a wonderful daughter. As far as I'm concerned, nothing (except may be a road accident) can affect our marriage. My wife tells me nowadays that I had better start looking for some fun before I'm too old. She is even friends with some single women that she knows I'm attracted to.

After thinking about this subject and reading quite a bit on this, I am fully convinced that the time has come for society in general to re-think on certain "traditional" concepts. At the very least, individuals and couples should be honest with themselves and with each other, and have the courage to ask "What would happen if ..." and "Why should my marriage be affected just because I find other women/men attractive and want to spend an evening or night with them?". I personally know of many marriages that have been rocked because of a secret affair of one of the spouses. I feel that there should be no need for cheating - when we start to look at relationship and pleasure differently.

My wife shares my ideas - but she just feels it's too much hassle for her to get into bed with a stranger, especially since she's getting all that she needs (and all that she can handle - in her words)...

Sorry about the rambling - especially the last part - it's like preaching to the already converted!

And thanks once again to all those who took the time to respond. It sure helps to put things in perspective - especially from the other side.

[Elusive BiFem]

Pardon me, but I'm confused. You said this in your first post:

Just as my wife respects my desires and encourages me to try things outside, I feel I must respect her choice for not meeting other men for sex.

What are we talking about here? You meeting men for sex? Most of your comments seem to deal with meeting couples. So was this a typo or what?

Now I'm sorry, but beyond that, you strike me as being overloaded with some type of BS. If you and your wife have this wonderful sex life and she is perfectly content because you bring her to orgasm on a regular basis...yada, yada...then why in the name of Sam Hill are you out looking for sex with others? And I'm sorry...I just can't buy into this thing about this relatively young woman (you mentioned 10 years of marriage and a daughter so I'm assuming wife is around 45 or less) that really doesn't care that you are attempting to go out and have sex with whomever. And this comment...

I have told her on several occasions that I am perfectly ready for her to experience another man - this is our tenth year of marriage, and we have a wonderful daughter.

Golly gee! Aren't you the benevolent one! Fact is, she has said she doesn't want to participate so what does the fact that you want her to experience another man have to do with anythng? She doesn't want to.

After thinking about this subject and reading quite a bit on this, I am fully convinced that the time has come for society in general to re-think on certain "traditional" concepts. At the very least, individuals and couples should be honest with themselves and with each other, and have the courage to ask "What would happen if ..." and "Why should my marriage be affected just because I find other women/men attractive and want to spend an evening or night with them?". I personally know of many marriages that have been rocked because of a secret affair of one of the spouses. I feel that there should be no need for cheating - when we start to look at relationship and pleasure differently.

No, I don't think society as a whole needs to look at marriage differently. Thing is...swingers for the most part do things together - for mutual pleasure and fun. Not just as an avenue to go out and share their sexual greatness with others. As Vespertine said in another thread, you married a woman, not a swinger.

Sorry...can't help it...but I really wonder how your wife really - I mean REALLY - feels about this...or if she even has a clue.
- EBF

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Elusive BiFem

Not just as an avenue to go out and share their sexual greatness with others.

Ummm...

That's why I do it... I mean - I think the world has a right to know the greatness of the Spoo...



Spoomonkey (swinging away now before I get belted)

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

Ummm...

That's why I do it... I mean - I think the world has a right to know the greatness of the Spoo...



Spoomonkey (swinging away now before I get belted)

So I've heard! But you know what I mean...- EBF