Are singles really swingers?

[Quin 17]

I belong to a few Yahoo swinger groups and get the Message Boards sent to me in digest daily. Some of you may also belong to a few of the groups that I belong to and may even belong to the one that I'm going to talk about specifically (tho I'm not going to name the group) and what has recently went on within the MB of this group (if you know more about this story, send me a personal message or email me with the particulars).

 

Last week, maybe Wednesday or Thursday, as usual my daily digest of the MB posts comes to my email. I'm reading through when I come upon one post in which the male persuasion of a heterosexual couple goes off. Apparently a Mr. Your Wife Ain't Lived Till She's Had Me Pump Her single male threatened the male persuasion of this couple with bodily harm because the couple (yes, both the male and female were in agreement) said no to his advances. I'm sure, and this board is proof, that sometimes advances come from someone we aren't particularly interested in, single or married, and generally, no is no and that's it. This single male threatened to kick the male persuasions behind (he was the one who repeated told the single male no). Why this married man thought to bring his grievance to that forum, I don't know, but anyhow...in his posting he said that there is NO way that any single person could be a swinger because they bring nothing to swinging but themselves...no mate, no spouse, and even if there was a SO that wasn't legally a spouse it didn't count, they are still considered *single*. He accused single people on the whole, male AND female, of probably in all likelihood being a *cheating spouse* instead of single.

 

I was taken back by this married man and of course, don't at all agree with his theory of single people who claim to be swingers. So I now pose this question...Do you consider true single males/single females who partake in *swinging* activities with swinging couples/other singles, whether at clubs or parties, to be swingers or are they just single people out looking to get laid as this man so nicely put it (his theory also included the fact that us Singles are so ugly and unattractive that we can't find anyone to pick up at bar to screw )?

 

I was slightly surprised at the number of married couples that basically agreed with him. But since this board is comprised of the most intelligent of the swingers, I thought to ask the question here and get feedback. So, are we swingers or just *wannabes*?

[JustAskJulie 2,588]

The part of your post that really got me was the mention that even those singles with an SO (I'm assuming an SO that swings with them) who isn't married to them is still bringing nothing to the table.

 

I would say that out of all the swinging couples I know, less than half of them are actually married. I got sorta blasted Saturday night because when I introduced them to another couple I said "X and his wife" and they aren't married. I just tend to forget this about the couples we swing with. They live together so in my book it's the same thing. They have the same responsibilities I have with my husband, the only difference is a piece of paper.

 

I don't think marriage makes a bit of difference when it comes to couples. If they are committed to each other and to the relationship then it doesn't matter if they are actually married or not.

 

As for actual singles who are NOT in any sort of relationship and do swing alone. My answer is yes they can be real swingers, but it really depends on the person and their attitude. And it's the same whether it's a single female or a single male. In many cases they are JUST LUCKY, in many other cases yes I would really consider them to be swingers.

[OhioCouple 38]

Originally posted by Quin:

So I now pose this question...Do you consider true single males/single females who partake in *swinging* activities with swinging couples/other singles, whether at clubs or parties, to be swingers or are they just single people out looking to get laid as this man so nicely put it (his theory also included the fact that us Singles are so ugly and unattractive that we can't find anyone to pick up at bar to screw )?

 

I was slightly surprised at the number of married couples that basically agreed with him. But since this board is comprised of the most intelligent of the swingers, I thought to ask the question here and get feedback. So, are we swingers or just *wannabes*?

 

 

I am sure that there are plenty of singles that are "wannabes", but in the same respect I am sure that there are couples that are "wannabes" also.

 

After meeting several singles at a private function we discovered that they are very much like we are and "swing" for the same reasons that we do. Some were divorced, (some recently, some not) and some had never married at all. Just because someone has not found the "perfect" mate for them does not make them a "panther" on the prowl looking to get laid.

 

If something were to happen tomorrow that I would become single, I would continue swinging even alone. Why? IMHO, swingers have pretty much "bared" themselves to others, have few hang-ups and are generally open minded and honest. You can talk about things with swingers that you can't with even your "best" non swinging friends. I by no means am a "Barbie" but I am sure that I could walk into a bar and get laid if I wanted to. But then I don't want to play the 20 something game ever again...so that is out of the question!

 

I think John says it best..."We have all been single at sometime or another and can be again in a heartbeat." Does that make you any less of a quality/qualified swinger? Such a pity that there are those who choose to be so shallow minded.

 

Lori

[dave_susie2001 15]

Originally posted by Quin:

 

I was slightly surprised at the number of married couples that basically agreed with him. But since this board is comprised of the most intelligent of the swingers, I thought to ask the question here and get feedback. So, are we swingers or just *wannabes*?

 

 

I for one don't have a problem with labels. We are in the lifestyle. We swing. We love it. Are we swingers? Depends on who you ask. It's all subjective. Someone once told us that we're not REAL swingers because we don't enjoy certain activities. Well, you know what? Different strokes for different folks. If you enjoy getting your ass smacked with a cat-o-nine-tails...more power to you! I have no issue with that. Just don't expect me to keep a hard-on if you come anywhere near me with that thing!

 

As far as the threaten violence part goes... WOW. I guess we have been lucky in our encounters. True we have met some people that are rude, pushy, and generally obnoxious, but never violent. And when we say "no thanks", it's never been disrespected.

 

I guess my feeling on what single people are is neutral. If you participate in the Lifestyle, and abide by it's unwritten and generally understood rules, call yourself a swinger! I would.

[ciscosv 26]

My wife and I read this last night. It was time for bed so we didn't post on the subject. For the most part I think a lot of single guys are looking to get "lucky" no matter how much they may lead couples to think. There is ALWAYS the exception to the rule though. It would be interesting to see the statistics on the single male population looking to screw another man's wife or single women. The only thing I can think of that would remotely prove this point is AFF. When you do a search or browse (not sure which it is) for the group that fits what you are looking for, there is a tally of the ads listed. men for women, men for men, women for men, women for women, men for couples, women for couples, couples for couples, etc. Single guys undoubtedly have the most ads listed on that site! What does that say? Single guys ARE out to get laid!

 

Single women on the other hand are a different cat. Rare in all cases, that is known. I think there is a reason in this community why the ladies are not an issue. Since I don't know why, I don't have an answer. But, men are from a different planet - right ladies?

 

I am not saying that singles can't be swingers, because from what I have read on this forum is that there are very *few real genuine* singles that everyone considers swingers and I would definitely back that up!

 

This guy must have gotten pissed because some a-hole dude just can't get a grip on the fact that he was rejected by the couple and the male was venting at the a-hole and not the group.

 

"Do you consider true single males/single females who partake in *swinging* activities with swinging couples/other singles, whether at clubs or parties, to be swingers or are they just single people out looking to get laid as this man so nicely put it"

 

My answer is yes - I consider *select* singles swingers. And I don't mean a person that had sex with a couple once starts touting him/herself to be a swinger. There is a reason that some singles are invited to such swinging functions, parties, and bedrooms. The ones that last are the ones that I consider swingers because these are the ones that respected limits and are known to understand that NO-MEANS-NO.

 

Julie wrote this: "My answer is yes they can be real swingers, but it really depends on the person and their attitude"

 

I agree and would highlight "person and their attitude" because that goes a long way! From all the posts here, a lot of swingers have been rubbed the wrong way by single males and therefore have a negative attitude towards them.

 

Quin wrote: "So, are we swingers or just *wannabes*?" I guess we might as well be *wannabes* We haven't swapped at all and might not for some time. But, I guess that is another topic!

 

I don't think you have much to worry about Quin! All of us here at the swingersboard.com know that you are a bona-fide swinger and not a perpetrator!

 

This turned out to be my 7 cents. Good god!

[Quin 17]

For the most part I think a lot of single guys are looking to get "lucky" no matter how much they may lead couples to think. There is ALWAYS the exception to the rule though. It would be interesting to see the statistics on the single male population looking to screw another man's wife or single women. The only thing I can think of that would remotely prove this point is AFF. When you do a search or browse (not sure which it is) for the group that fits what you are looking for, there is a tally of the ads listed. men for women, men for men, women for men, women for women, men for couples, women for couples, couples for couples, etc. Single guys undoubtedly have the most ads listed on that site! What does that say? Single guys ARE out to get laid!

 

hehehehe That's what I love about ya, sweetie, you just put it right out there...no sugar coating with you. But I do agree, many single males are out just to get laid and those that have really become incorporated into the swinging life (such as my two single male friends) have had to work hard to dispel the *single male attitude* from being assigned to them. Is it wrong for us to have a predetermined attitude or idea in our heads when we see a single male at a club or get together? Not really because 9 times out of 10 it's just a single guy looking to get laid...but once in while you hit about that one guy who is different than the other nine...just too sad that he must work doubly hard to overcome the stigma that single males have brought upon themselves.

 

Single women on the other hand are a different cat. Rare in all cases, that is known. I think there is a reason in this community why the ladies are not an issue. Since I don't know why, I don't have an answer. But, men are from a different planet - right ladies? Yes, we are rare and will continue to be so as long as females are raised to believe in the White Knight theory and having it hammered into our heads that we can only love one man or that love and sex are the same thing and if you don't love the person, it's wrong to have sex with them. And that all we live for is the white picket fenced house with a little boy and girl in the backyard playing and the husband coming home from work each day, la la la la la.

 

We haven't swapped at all and might not for some time. But, I guess that is another topic! Yes and that topic is titled....CALL QUIN WHEN YOU DO CAUSE SHE'S READY, WILLING AND MORE THAN ABLE TO INDULGE WITH YOU AND THE MISSES. Of course, Mrsciscosv...yummy that I could do all on my own while you watch. :p

 

I don't think you have much to worry about Quin! All of us here at the swingersboard.com know that you are a bona-fide swinger and not a perpetrator!

 

aaawww, thank ya, sweetie. hmmmm being a perpetrator might not be so bad...would depend upon what you're perpetrating.

 

Quin

[Quin 17]

If something were to happen tomorrow that I would become single, I would continue swinging even alone. Why? IMHO, swingers have pretty much "bared" themselves to others, have few hang-ups and are generally open minded and honest. You can talk about things with swingers that you can't with even your "best" non swinging friends. I by no means am a "Barbie" but I am sure that I could walk into a bar and get laid if I wanted to. But then I don't want to play the 20 something game ever again...so that is out of the question! ITA. I know I could walk into any given bar in our area and pick up someone for a night of hot, raunchy, nasty sex. But that's not necessarily what I'm looking for...for me, there's the friendship aspect or being around people who think like myself. Lets face it, the general population doesn't think of sex in the way that swinger's do and as such, it's refreshing to be around others who think of it much like I do. I have no desire to procreate again and haven't had that desire for YEARS. My desire is to enjoy myself and my body, bring enjoyment to others and have a few laughs in between times.

 

And ya know, if I never ever get married, that's fine with me. It's not a priority in my life or something that I even desire...I'm quite happy being single. And while many people, even some swingers, doubt that one can be happy and be single, it does happen and it does exist.

[OhioCouple 38]

Originally posted by Quin:

Let's face it, the general population doesn't think of sex in the way that swinger's do and as such, it's refreshing to be around others who think of it much like I do.

 

Well said...(I would say AMEN...but then ya know...)

 

Lori

[Quin 17]

It's still kind of going on. Anytime a single person posts something, this funkycpl always makes some kind of mean, nasty, uncalled for remark...then of course others jump in with their mean, nasty remarks to funkycpl. Some of them you can't help but chuckle at. Right now they're all making poems as some single guy posted in a poem like way...I still have that one...I'll forward it to you if you like, just let me know. I really thought his poem like post was kind of refreshing and different...it caught my eye.

[frisson 16]

Originally posted by Quin:

But I do agree, many single males are out just to get laid and those that have really become incorporated into the swinging life (such as my two single male friends) have had to work hard to dispel the *single male attitude* from being assigned to them. Is it wrong for us to have a predetermined attitude or idea in our heads when we see a single male at a club or get together? Not really because 9 times out of 10 it's just a single guy looking to get laid...but once in while you hit about that one guy who is different than the other nine...just too sad that he must work doubly hard to overcome the stigma that single males have brought upon themselves.

 

I think it is pretty easy to explain the behavior of most single males vs. men who have been in the swinging life for a while and the rare solo female.

 

Single men in the straight world have never known anything but an "economy of scarcity" where sex is concerned. Of course he is looking to get laid. He is hardwired to want sex, and there is never enough sex to go around.

 

It is just like being a stray dog in Calcutta. You have to fight for every scrap of food you can get, and since there is never enough, you are constantly on the lookout for an opportunity to grab a bite. Food is about the only thing you think about, because you are always hungry. And when you are in the presence of food, your manners are less than perfect because, in your world, he who hesitates always ends up watching somebody else get a mouthful.

 

Pretty much the same obtains for single men in our society, unless they are movie producers or rock stars.

 

OTOH, swinging is an sexual economy of plenty. The buffet table is always full and there's never a long wait to satisfy yourself. Of course those single guys mellow out in a situation like that. Set that stray mutt from Calcutta into a field where there's a T-bone at every turn, and pretty soon he'll be fat and mellow too.

 

Needless to say, the same applies in spades for a single woman in swinging. Hell, for her it is not a buffet table, it is platter after platter of delicacies being brought to her table for her inspection and approval.

[sexualpleasure 15]

I totally agree, singles are definitely swingers, male or female. I am a single male and love the swinging lifestyle. I have had relationships with couples who are looking for that whether the wife is doing it for her husband or he for she, DOESN'T MATTER, IT IS ALL PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

 

Those couples that are out there want this, sometimes they also have a female friend with them when looking for a man. Never being married I have had partners in the past that would swing with me. Just because we are no longer together, should it mean that I or she must stop? People be real. No one forces anyone to do anything if they have any sense at all. I love the Lifestyle and have made many friends. I do not have the longest or thickest manhood but one thing I have been able to do is control my orgasms. I go for hours and am very patient and respectful of the women I make love to and in the end my ejaculation is that more intense and appreciated that much more.

 

So please, can't we all just get along? It's your choice as to whom you want to swing with. It seems like there are so many more "swingers" out there looking for a single female if not a couple for the women in the relationship may be bi-curious. Is the sex for her or is it for the man? He'll never say, "no, let's not honey".

[iapr 24]

I usually don't worry about labels too much but in order to communicate people kinda have to have some common words and phrases and so we just kind of go round and round. The question of "is a single person a swinger?" is always one of the more common questions.

 

This is just my $.02, but just to be bold and to make a stand I will say, no, I do not consider most singles to be swingers. IMHO "swinging" is couples-based and couples oriented. Just because a single picks up chicks/dudes, does not them a swinger make.

 

If an individual has a particular fondness for being with couples and availe themself to couples on an ongoing bases, I guess I would afford them the label of "associate swinger" but I do not consider singles to be full fledged swingers at all.

 

A single who systematically and intentionally seeks out and engages in recreation sex with other singles or with cheaters I would just call sexually active but not a swinger.

 

I think a lot of single males sign up on websites and try to get into clubs just to score a piece of ass and it is just another venue to them in that they have no particular interest in actual swinging, they are just hoping there will be easy chicks there. When they find there aren't easy chicks there, they back to the vanilla bars.

 

I don't pretend to have a clue why there are single fems on the swinger sites. A single chick putting up a profile looking for sex on a website is like someone advertising for sand while living in the desert.

 

So I guess bottom line is if you are single and your primary interest is being with couples I would call that an associate swinger. But if there interest is just another way to pick up chicks or guys I would just call that sexually active and opportunistic.

 

I'm not saying that singles are bad or that they should not be allowed into swingers venues, I'm just saying I personally do not consider the vast majority of singles to be swingers.

[aster 20]

I'll admit, I haven't taken the time to read every other post. this is coming from a truly single female, new to the lifestyle.

 

In one way, I do think singles are true swingers...

 

Because it goes beyond just "sex with other people" to a whole new way about thinking about relationships, and how sex factors into those relationships. it's a completely different perspective, and I would be very unlikely to find people who shared this perspective just by looking at a bar.

 

Sure, a single gal could get laid quick going to a bar. but generally not by a couple...and certainly not without the drama. and definitely not without a certain stigma, the risk of hurting someone's feelings. the rest of the world approaches sex and relationships in a very different way. it's more difficult to find people who are willing to be friends who have sex, without being in a relationship.

 

One the other hand, I don't think singles are the SAME kind of swingers that couples are...

 

Because we don't deal with the same emotional and relationship issues and benefits. it's easy to say that I'd feel the same if i had a partner...but until it happens i don't know. i think it's a totally different experience for couples, there is an entire other dimension to the sex...the dimension where you not only are paying attention to your sexual experience, but you are fully engaged in knowing/watching/helping your partner's experiences too. I don't get to experience that, and I'll admit...I'm kinda jealous.

 

So yes, I think singles can be swingers, but I do think it's a different category.

[Thrax 384]

Well, at least to me, the term "associate swinger" is better than walking/talking dildo or some other terms that have been bandied about on the Board to describe single "swinging" males.

 

But...whatever.

 

As I think I've mentioned before, I'm not really concerned with whether I'm officially a "swinger" or not, I just want to be treated with at least the same respect I give others in the lifestyle, whether I play with them or not.

 

The Golden Rule rules.

 

Thrax

[mixtupcpl 169]

Here's my answer to this... What percentage of the population are swingers? Very low. What percentage of men can actually allow a woman they love more than anything on earth do whatever she wants sexually? MASSIVELY low. How many women can do the same for the man they love? MASSIVELY low.

 

So you tell me... Can singles be "swingers"? Yeah. In MASSIVELY low numbers commensurate with the already tiny representation of the population that truly have this mindset.

 

How many single men are out there? ZILLIONS. MANY of them want to "fuck some guys wife" as the ultimate power trip fantasy, with few exceptions. Husbands are more touchy about this because we KNOW the male mind.

 

So I would guess that far less than 1 in 1000 "single males" could even begin to contemplate what "swinging" is all about. Far more have learned to "act", I'm sure, and pretend they respect the situation, but I doubt they really do or understand it. So that 1 in 1000 (or less), I would consider swingers. These are guys who if THEY were a "couple" would want to keep doing it and could give their SO the same freedom THEY benefit from some OTHER guys SO having.

 

The only way I can think of to find that 1 in 1000 (or less), would be through a network of trusted friends. And I suppose if the guy is REALLY good at playing the part (even if he isn't genuine), for many couples that would be enough.

 

Single women I find to be a WHOLE different animal. Single women can get laid with ZERO effort 24x7. Therefore one who would actively want to be with a couple is already a very complex person. Hence single women are rare and special. Single men are not. Women are complex, men are simple.

 

I'm sure the guy was just venting. For me, someone threatens me with violence exactly one time. Then things get massively ugly. For him, he probably bottled it up and it had to go SOMEWHERE. Unfortunately, it went to that forum.

 

The point DOES have some merit though, it was just colored by his (understandable) anger.

 

A BIG problem on forums is that the 1 in 1000 types seem to always take the shit aimed at the other 999 as if it were aimed at them. I have no idea why that is, but it seems to be the case. Is it that they are questioning their OWN intentions in all of this? Or is it something else? No clue really, but it always seems to happen. By my accounting, someone who is single, and is willing to register on a site like this and post as a long time poster, is already FAR more likely to be the 1 in 1000 so they should realize that the sometimes angry comments aimed at the other 999 don't apply to them.

[midwestmale 15]

I agree with what Julie said way back there. I think it is all depends on the individuals. I have heard horror stories from couples who will fight over who they want, and the other partners feel threatened. Or that the single male or female, who is to be the third is argued over, and then sees the couple fight in front of them. Just like in any dating or sex situation, I think it all depends on the person. My self I came from a marriage of 22 years, and I am now divorced, but does that mean I don't like sex and with threesomes? of course not I love it all the more. My ex hated the thought, so now I do it. I swing with a couple now, and it has been great. I don't sit there and make demands I do what they ask me to do and what is comfortable for both of them. If he wants me to write a fantasy for him I do, If at that time she doesn't want a fantasy about him I will. I would have to say as long as everyone is on the same page it shouldn't matter if your tagged as a swinger or not. Sex is to be fun, talked about and enjoyed. Life has too much drama to bring it into your bedroom or fantasy. So yes a single male can be a swinger, He has my vote. Same with a single female. I like what my couple tells me as I get more involved in this. You can always say No. and if they don't respect that leave the room. But should you bring it too a board and sound off? I am not making that call.

 

Stuff happens to the best of us whether we planned it or not. Again to quote Julie, if you find that rare couple treasure it your lucky, and get the most you can from them.

 

Now I better look back and see if she said that. lol

[mixtupcpl 169]

Again to quote Julie, if you find that rare couple, treasure it your lucky, and get the most you can from them.

Now I better look back and see if she said that. lol

 

I don't think this what she was saying there. I think she was saying that many singles are "just lucky" in that they maybe don't fully respect and appreciate what a swinger couple really is about, but they got to be with them anyway. And that SOME are not "just lucky" in that spiritually (or whatever), they really are on the same page.

 

For me personally, I do everything I can to avoid the former and find the latter. I'm not interested in making someones year so they can count themselves lucky and get all they can out of me and Mrs Mix (i know you didn't mean it that way, but I couldn't resist)

[angelkin 1,326]

I absolutely think that singles are swingers! Swinging to me is not just swapping spouses or sharing - it's an openness to a lifestyle that is taboo and unconventional, it's a personality type that enjoys NSA sex strictly for recreation and enjoyment, it's acceptance of others like us who embrace the honesty and willingness to try new things. Being coupled or single makes no difference and does not factor into my personal definition of 'swinger'.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

The OP was written at about the time I started swinging solo. The club I attended (then and now) had a Yahoo group which periodically had "singles aren't swingers" flare-ups that generally made my head hurt. My contention was that, single or not, I was definitely a swinger. I only had sex with swingers and only with people I first met in a club environment. I embraced the social and sexual aspects, was respectful of couples and their relationships and enjoyed fulfilling fantasies and having them fulfilled.

 

I've always been a little sympathetic to the anti argument, because it's true that a single doesn't have the same sort of relationship risks, but there are other risks which are present with or without a partner. I would also, now that I have experience swinging with my beloved, say that it was far more difficult on a social level to be solo. Long after I was certain to find lots of friends inside, I would still have to sit in the parking lot awhile until I stopped shaking. That hasn't been a problem with M., not even the first time we went together, because we were together.

[DigginIt 1,132]

No, I believe that singles participate in swinging but they are not swingers. Just because I sleep with a married person, does that make me married...no. Not the best analogy but I liked it.

 

I believe the term 'lifestyle' is much more broad than the term 'swinger' so are singles in the lifestyle, sure but I reserve the use of the term swingers until a couple has mutually decided to participate. In the end though, it's just a term. It's not really a big deal one way or the other if people think of themselves as swingers or not. I wouldn't argue with them and respect their opinion.

[funcoupledayton 2,707]

"Now she's a singer dating a swinger, I can't decide which is worse..." According to Tom Petty a single can be a swinger.

[cplnuswing 4,711]

"Now she's a singer dating a swinger, I can't decide which is worse..." According to Tom Petty a single can be a swinger.

 

excellent

[sunbuckus 3,565]

My gut reaction is no, singles are not swingers. As others have pointed out, they don't have to encounter the same emotional dealings as couples do when swinging. They just have to see who will include them in the couple's playtime. They don't have to worry about getting jealous of a partner, having a jealous partner, etc...but most importantly, they don't have a partner to share the experience with (which makes me a bit sad actually.)

 

Sure, there are singles that are out there to just get laid (and yes, I even heard this coming from a single female). But, as also stated by other posters, it can also be a frame of mind. Being sexually open and honest, an accepting attitude of those similar in mind (as well as different), and a willingness to explore one's sexual desires could be what makes a swinger...however I am not entirely convinced. A person could have all of those qualities but that doesn't mean that their exploration involves the swinger world. Their fantasies could possibly entertaining role playing or dom/sub with their current partner. They could be very open minded about various realms, not just human sexuality--like political, cultural, etc.

 

Perhaps it takes the actual experience of swinging as a couple to become a "swinger" to really understand the complexities of playing with others and the repercussions, positive and negative.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

My gut reaction is no, singles are not swingers. As others have pointed out, they don't have to encounter the same emotional dealings as couples do when swinging. They just have to see who will include them in the couple's playtime. They don't have to worry about getting jealous of a partner, having a jealous partner, etc...but most importantly, they don't have a partner to share the experience with (which makes me a bit sad actually.)

 

Sure, there are singles that are out there to just get laid (and yes, I even heard this coming from a single female). But, as also stated by other posters, it can also be a frame of mind. Being sexually open and honest, an accepting attitude of those similar in mind (as well as different), and a willingness to explore one's sexual desires could be what makes a swinger...however I am not entirely convinced. A person could have all of those qualities but that doesn't mean that their exploration involves the swinger world. Their fantasies could possibly entertaining role playing or dom/sub with their current partner. They could be very open minded about various realms, not just human sexuality--like political, cultural, etc.

 

Perhaps it takes the actual experience of swinging as a couple to become a "swinger" to really understand the complexities of playing with others and the repercussions, positive and negative.

 

I'm quoting you not so I can disagree with you, but because something in here has had my brain working since I read it. First, I definitely see your point and think your opinion is both valid and common. But there's something in your second and fourth sentences that resonates pretty deeply and possibly answers why some singles do think of themselves as swingers. As a single, I came up against a lot of internal difficulties - that exposure of cracks that a lot of us talk about isn't limited to couples and relationships - and being reasonably empathetic, I wasn't at all immune to the need to work with the jealousy and issues of others.

 

I think it might have been different if my object had been solely to get laid. Sex was certainly a part of it, but so was being with my tribe and so was being of service. Swinging with Mr. Doe required a lot of conversations ahead of time and a little tentativeness at the beginning, but otherwise it has been a far easier experience than I ever had solo. Does lacking the need for negotiation or the transversing of difficult relationship terrain mean we're missing out on some crucial elements of swinging?

 

Like I said, I see your point, and I appreciate the work your thoughts are giving my brain.

[Alura 2,766]

Perhaps it takes the actual experience of swinging as a couple to become a "swinger" to really understand the complexities of playing with others and the repercussions, positive and negative.

 

That's what I think. The sharing of the one person most dear to you cannot be duplicated.

 

Alura

[sunbuckus 3,565]

I'm quoting you not so I can disagree with you, but because something in here has had my brain working since I read it. First, I definitely see your point and think your opinion is both valid and common. But there's something in your second and fourth sentences that resonates pretty deeply and possibly answers why some singles do think of themselves as swingers. As a single, I came up against a lot of internal difficulties - that exposure of cracks that a lot of us talk about isn't limited to couples and relationships - and being reasonably empathetic, I wasn't at all immune to the need to work with the jealousy and issues of others.

 

I think it might have been different if my object had been solely to get laid. Sex was certainly a part of it, but so was being with my tribe and so was being of service. Swinging with Mr. Doe required a lot of conversations ahead of time and a little tentativeness at the beginning, but otherwise it has been a far easier experience than I ever had solo. Does lacking the need for negotiation or the transversing of difficult relationship terrain mean we're missing out on some crucial elements of swinging?

 

Like I said, I see your point, and I appreciate the work your thoughts are giving my brain.

 

Maui babe, you know I love ya. This thread was one of those posts that I wanted to answer but I wasn't quite sure how so my response isn't exactly how I wanted it to come out. If you care to share, maybe you can expand on what kind of internal difficulties that you had as a single. I am sure that as a single playing with couples, you had experiences of jealous couples and helping them work through it (because you're awesome like that). But working through it as a couple is different because unless the single is in a poly triad, I can't see how singles can compete with working through those type of emotional issues on the same level as they do. Does that kind of make sense?

 

Since I haven't had the experience of being in the LS as a single, it's really hard for me to sufficiently answer this post, but as a couple, I can assume the experience is quite different between the two.

[JustAskJulie 2,588]

Maui babe, you know I love ya. This thread was one of those posts that I wanted to answer but I wasn't quite sure how so my response isn't exactly how I wanted it to come out. If you care to share, maybe you can expand on what kind of internal difficulties that you had as a single. I am sure that as a single playing with couples, you had experiences of jealous couples and helping them work through it (because you're awesome like that). But working through it as a couple is different because unless the single is in a poly triad, I can't see how singles can compete with working through those type of emotional issues on the same level as they do. Does that kind of make sense?

 

Since I haven't had the experience of being in the LS as a single, it's really hard for me to sufficiently answer this post, but as a couple, I can assume the experience is quite different between the two.

 

I can't speak for Maui, but my experience as a single female had plenty of internal struggles. A couple always has another to lean on and Erik through things with, questioning a situation? talk it out with your partner, got a bad vibe? talk it out with your partner. At a strangers house and they start talking about how their last regular playmate slept at the foot of their bed..... as a single you encounter all of these situations and have to work through them in your own. I can totally empathize with sitting in the car freaking out and trying to work up the nerves to walk into a club alone, or even a restaurant. A single may not have to worry about their partner getting jealous or of being jealous, but they may be more likely to be caught in the middle of someone else's jealousy or drama.

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Maui babe, you know I love ya. This thread was one of those posts that I wanted to answer but I wasn't quite sure how so my response isn't exactly how I wanted it to come out. If you care to share, maybe you can expand on what kind of internal difficulties that you had as a single. I am sure that as a single playing with couples, you had experiences of jealous couples and helping them work through it (because you're awesome like that). But working through it as a couple is different because unless the single is in a poly triad, I can't see how singles can compete with working through those type of emotional issues on the same level as they do. Does that kind of make sense?

 

Since I haven't had the experience of being in the LS as a single, it's really hard for me to sufficiently answer this post, but as a couple, I can assume the experience is quite different between the two.

 

Back at ya, Mrs. S. First, claiming a particularly voracious sexuality was a little challenging. It and my disinterest in monogamy were the biggest stressors in my marriage, so I had some major cracks that needed repairing when I started. I never fully worked through that, so each visit to the club or a party required a certain amount of intestinal fortitude and a lot of deep breaths. It was also harder than I can possibly explain to get out of my car and walk into a place full of people who examined me with a great deal of speculation. It triggered some old traumas every single time.

 

I probably played with couples 80% of the time and with halves of couples another 10% and I certainly did sometimes have to help them work through issues of jealousy, but it was more a matter of being on full alert most of the time, to make certain I was being both cognizant of their comfort and sensitive to their dynamic. I think couples do that with other couples too, but because they also have each other to backstop, perhaps the sense of responsibility isn't as acute.

 

I think part of the problem is that I still don't have any experience working through deep emotional issues as a couple. Mr. Doe had a moment once, but otherwise it's been much easier and far less stressful to swing as a couple. This, what Alura is talking about, is as easy as breathing. Being a single required far more work.

 

That's what I think. The sharing of the one person most dear to you cannot be duplicated.

 

I still haven't quite gotten to whatever it is that's nagging at me, but...it's chat time.

Alura

[sunbuckus 3,565]

Back at ya, Mrs. S. First, claiming a particularly voracious sexuality was a little challenging. It and my disinterest in monogamy were the biggest stressors in my marriage, so I had some major cracks that needed repairing when I started. I never fully worked through that, so each visit to the club or a party required a certain amount of intestinal fortitude and a lot of deep breaths. It was also harder than I can possibly explain to get out of my car and walk into a place full of people who examined me with a great deal of speculation. It triggered some old traumas every single time.

 

I probably played with couples 80% of the time and with halves of couples another 10% and I certainly did sometimes have to help them work through issues of jealousy, but it was more a matter of being on full alert most of the time, to make certain I was being both cognizant of their comfort and sensitive to their dynamic. I think couples do that with other couples too, but because they also have each other to backstop, perhaps the sense of responsibility isn't as acute.

 

I think part of the problem is that I still don't have any experience working through deep emotional issues as a couple. Mr. Doe had a moment once, but otherwise it's been much easier and far less stressful to swing as a couple. This, what Alura is talking about, is as easy as breathing. Being a single required far more work.

 

First off...*huggles* I can fantasize about how it would be if I were to go out to a swinger party/club/event by myself and think of the attention. But that's all it will be. I don't have the courage to go out there on my own without Mr. Sunbuckus by my side. Not only is he my partner in crime, but my protector and sympathetic pillar that holds me up. I'm entirely too shy, too reserved, and too awkward when I'm around people I don't know. Deep down, I know that I would end up having a miserable time because I would just stand there, not having the gumption to go up to others and talk to them. And then add in the sexual factors that you stated...whoo. I can see what you mean about emotional difficulties. And not having anyone to share them with can be heartbreaking.

 

But do you think that internal struggle and being aware of a couple's dynamic and relationship is what made you a swinger even though you didn't have the experience of sharing/swapping Mr. Doe with another couple?

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

But do you think that internal struggle and being aware of a couple's dynamic and relationship is what made you a swinger even though you didn't have the experience of sharing/swapping Mr. Doe with another couple?

 

I'm not certain what made me a swinger. Maybe Partyperks has the right of it in saying that couples decided I was, certainly part was being aware of and sensitive to the nature of my playmates' relationship, but mostly I think there were enough equivalencies in the struggles that - while I couldn't duplicate the couple dynamic - I ended up in a similar place, except that the strengthened relationship was the one I had with myself. It's not the same, but it was similar enough that it and empathy left me without a particularly large gap in understanding.

 

I never had a miserable time. Swingers in general are pretty awesome people and I never felt other than welcomed. Also, I loved being able to experiment and still feel safe, plus the breakfast conversations were a source of great joy then and now. It was certainly enough to keep me coming back, no matter how anxious I'd get beforehand or how often the drive home felt a little lonely, because I came to understand that those things were just my price of admission.

[Partyperks847 123]

I'm not certain what made me a swinger. Maybe Partyperks has the right of it in saying that couples decided I was, certainly part was being aware of and sensitive to the nature of my playmates' relationship, but mostly I think there were enough equivalencies in the struggles that - while I couldn't duplicate the couple dynamic - I ended up in a similar place, except that the strengthened relationship was the one I had with myself. It's not the same, but it was similar enough that it and empathy left me without a particularly large gap in understanding.

 

I never had a miserable time. Swingers in general are pretty awesome people and I never felt other than welcomed. Also, I loved being able to experiment and still feel safe, plus the breakfast conversations were a source of great joy then and now. It was certainly enough to keep me coming back, no matter how anxious I'd get beforehand or how often the drive home felt a little lonely, because I came to understand that those things were just my price of admission.

 

To expand a bit on my couples acceptance theory....in my experience successful singles do so by winning over the same gender of the couple as well as the opposite.

Being attractive but non threatening, respectful but not ostentatious, being the their partner in crime but never their challenger, being just the right measure of gentle to rough and casual to caring with Their partner is a TOUGH needle to thread.......to those who have successfully pulled it off...I have great admiration.

Sounds like you did just that mauijanedoe...Salute'

[cplnuswing 4,711]

To expand a bit on my couples acceptance theory....in my experience successful singles do so by winning over the same gender of the couple as well as the opposite.

Being attractive but non threatening, respectful but not ostentatious, being the their partner in crime but never their challenger, being just the right measure of gentle to rough and casual to caring with Their partner is a TOUGH needle to thread.......

 

I think this is true with couples as well as singles, but with couples there are two people to carry the load in where with singles it's all on them. With a couple, one may be more physically attractive but more reserved, and the other may be just average but really funny and outgoing. Together, they meet funny and attractive. A single would have to be both, doesn't get the benefit of help from someone else.

[sunbuckus 3,565]

To expand a bit on my couples acceptance theory....in my experience successful singles do so by winning over the same gender of the couple as well as the opposite.

Being attractive but non threatening, respectful but not ostentatious, being the their partner in crime but never their challenger, being just the right measure of gentle to rough and casual to caring with Their partner is a TOUGH needle to thread.......to those who have successfully pulled it off...I have great admiration.

Sounds like you did just that mauijanedoe...Salute'

 

I definitely understand the Couples' Acceptance Theory of labeling singles as swingers. And if we played with singles, in the practical sense, I would most likely say that those with the qualities you mentioned and that I've seen demonstrated from some of the singles on the board were indeed swingers. But I think theoretically, I still stand by my thought that it is the actual "being in a couple" experience that gives them that label. They don't always have to be experiencing a couple swap (perhaps they divorced but continue swinging as a single, perhaps they swing with others when they are dating others, etc) to be a "swinger." Having actually gone through the emotional round-about that comes with seeing your partner have sex with someone else is something that can't really be duplicated by singles that haven't ever done that (perhaps I'm mostly thinking about single males in this case).

 

But there was something nagging me about the Couples' Acceptance Theory...almost akin to how we mostly "accept" that tomatoes are a vegetable but they really aren't.

 

In the end, obviously, if you think you're a swinger, then you most likely are. I say most likely though because Mr. Sunbuckus and I had attended a "swingers party" a few months ago and there wasn't any swinging going on. Just a lot of beautiful people standing around wanting to be ogled but not touched...calling themselves swingers because they were attending a "swingers party."

[sexykittennjean 45]

Well I am single and I am a swinger. I really don't see where it matters if you are single or married. If you are willing to join in and participate in the activities in a respectable manner, that is all that matters, not to cross any lines.

 

I love it, it is fun and exciting, especially if you have chemistry with the people that you are with. So I say yes, singles can be swingers too.

[Chicup 38]

I can't speak for Maui, but my experience as a single female had plenty of internal struggles. A couple always has another to lean on and Erik through things with, questioning a situation? talk it out with your partner, got a bad vibe? talk it out with your partner. At a strangers house and they start talking about how their last regular playmate slept at the foot of their bed..... as a single you encounter all of these situations and have to work through them in your own. I can totally empathize with sitting in the car freaking out and trying to work up the nerves to walk into a club alone, or even a restaurant. A single may not have to worry about their partner getting jealous or of being jealous, but they may be more likely to be caught in the middle of someone else's jealousy or drama.

 

I don't think the issue is if it is difficult for a single to go to sex parties or the like. I'm also sure it is much harder on a single female. A single male has to somehow GET attention or be left completely alone. A single female on the other hand will attract almost everyone, and might be a target for undesirables or become a trophy between competing couples.

 

The difference between a single at a swing club and a couple is risk to the long term. As a single your only issue is to the short term, once you are out of the situation, even a bad one, it is done. As a couple your spouses problems become your problems. If you have a major problem, it becomes devastating. From a stress standpoint, the only thing listed higher than divorce is a death in the immediate family.

 

Now as an experienced swinger, this is far less of an issue, I know my wife better than she knows herself, we won't have any issues from a swinger stand point. For newer couples though, and we have all seen them implode from time to time, the risk is far greater for a couple than a single.

[angelkin 1,326]

Chicup, I agree there is less risk as a single, but there's other obstacles to overcome as a single too (as you touched on). I think anyone who swings, single or coupled, puts themselves out there in such a way that is very personal and very open - to me, it's the mindset that defines who is or isn't a swinger. If someone really enjoys the openness and honesty of casual sex, that's a swinger.

 

I think we all have seen one half of a couple that wasn't really swinging for the right reasons and I don't consider them to be swingers.

[sunbuckus 3,565]

Here's something I wanted to throw out there...take out the couples from the LS, then what do you have? Singles having casual sex, right? So what makes the LS/swinging community exactly that? I propose that it is the couples themselves that is the glue to the swinging community. Singles can have the right mindset to join but it's the couples, their relationship, and their willingness to share and be open that creates the swinging community.

[angelkin 1,326]

Here's something I wanted to throw out there...take out the couples from the LS, then what do you have? Singles having casual sex, right? So what makes the LS/swinging community exactly that? I propose that it is the couples themselves that is the glue to the swinging community. Singles can have the right mindset to join but it's the couples, their relationship, and their willingness to share and be open that creates the swinging community.

 

Touche - a very good point!

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Here's something I wanted to throw out there...take out the couples from the LS, then what do you have? Singles having casual sex, right? So what makes the LS/swinging community exactly that? I propose that it is the couples themselves that is the glue to the swinging community. Singles can have the right mindset to join but it's the couples, their relationship, and their willingness to share and be open that creates the swinging community.

 

I totally agree that couples are the glue, the essential component. I would never have gotten involved if couples weren't. It's just that I don't think they're the only necessary element or that singles are merely satellites there for no particular purpose.

[sunbuckus 3,565]

I totally agree that couples are the glue, the essential component. I would never have gotten involved if couples weren't. It's just that I don't think they're the only necessary element or that singles are merely satellites there for no particular purpose.

 

Please don't think that I view singles as being mere satellites. They are much more than that...after all, they are flesh and blood human beings. But in the theoretical sense of swinging, they do serve a purpose which is to usually add a third to the couple's play; and so do other couples. Take out the emotions and we're all using each other for our own needs. In reality, we see singles (and couples) as persons who we can like, love, hate, enjoy, etc. They can be more than just a "tool". They can be friends, lovers, enemies--in and out of the bedroom.

 

Let me ask a question: there are two singles who are swingers in the community with the right mindset of a swinger (respecting a couple's boundaries and relationship and understanding that they are open and sharing their bedroom antics with the single) but the two singles are having casual sex with just each other for one night...no one else. Are they in a swinger experience because they are swingers or are they just two swinger singles having casual non-swinger sex?

[mauijanedoe 1,414]

Let me ask a question: there are two singles who are swingers in the community with the right mindset of a swinger (respecting a couple's boundaries and relationship and understanding that they are open and sharing their bedroom antics with the single) but the two singles are having casual sex with just each other for one night...no one else. Are they in a swinger experience because they are swingers or are they just two swinger singles having casual non-swinger sex?

 

Interesting question and, at least for me, the answer depends on the setting. Are they in a room at a house party or at a club, or in the middle of a pile, where their relationship status is just happenstance, then, yeah, I think they're swingers having a swinger experience. If those same two people then exchange numbers and get together in one of their homes, I think the issue is a lot muddier, particularly if each only has sex with people they've met through swinging. There I actually start getting dizzy thinking through the ramifications and possible combinations of swinger/not-swinger. Like...if they're alone together in her home, it's casual sex, but if a married friend of theirs shows up with a hall pass, it instantly becomes swinging. Maybe. Or maybe she's a hotwife and there's no consensus as to whether that's swinging or not. But if a couple shows up, it is swinging, unless he's a voyeur and then we're back to well, maybe yes, maybe no.

 

It would be simpler if we started paring away at groups until we were left with only marriedcoupleswhofullswapsameroomonly, because there's no question they're swingers, but life isn't simple like that, nor are people, so naming and group inclusion/exclusion is complex. And makes my head hurt.

 

I think being a swinger is what you are (or aren't). Some activities might or might not be swinging, but if you are a swinger (and I'm always going to argue that self-identification is more important than community consensus), then where those activities fit isn't as important a determiner as discussions about this topic would indicate.

[sunbuckus 3,565]

There I actually start getting dizzy thinking through the ramifications and possible combinations of swinger/not-swinger.

 

lol, I don't want to make you feel ill so I'll stop. And I noticed that the thread was getting away from the original intent so anyone who hasn't chimed in can jump back their thoughts about whether singles are swingers and why/why not.

[D&D 362]

I totally agree that couples are the glue, the essential component. I would never have gotten involved if couples weren't. It's just that I don't think they're the only necessary element or that singles are merely satellites there for no particular purpose.

 

Couples are the only necessary part. If there are no couples there is no swinging. If there are couples but no singles we can still have swinging. This doesn't mean that singles can't be called swingers. I think some of them are swingers, but they are not a necessary part of swinging. I also don't think that singles are "satellites". They can and do contribute as much to the swinging experience as couples do.

[Partyperks847 123]

I definitely understand the Couples' Acceptance Theory of labeling singles as swingers. And if we played with singles, in the practical sense, I would most likely say that those with the qualities you mentioned and that I've seen demonstrated from some of the singles on the board were indeed swingers. But I think theoretically, I still stand by my thought that it is the actual "being in a couple" experience that gives them that label. They don't always have to be experiencing a couple swap (perhaps they divorced but continue swinging as a single, perhaps they swing with others when they are dating others, etc) to be a "swinger." Having actually gone through the emotional round-about that comes with seeing your partner have sex with someone else is something that can't really be duplicated by singles that haven't ever done that (perhaps I'm mostly thinking about single males in this case).

 

But there was something nagging me about the Couples' Acceptance Theory...almost akin to how we mostly "accept" that tomatoes are a vegetable but they really aren't.

 

In the end, obviously, if you think you're a swinger, then you most likely are. I say most likely though because Mr. Sunbuckus and I had attended a "swingers party" a few months ago and there wasn't any swinging going on. Just a lot of beautiful people standing around wanting to be ogled but not touched...calling themselves swingers because they were attending a "swingers party."

 

In the end, obviously, if you think you're a swinger, then you most likely are.

 

I'm not so sure about that. There is an entire demographic of singles on every swing site who are vast in number but under the radar, some of who have spouses with varying degrees of knowledge and acceptance of their activities, who call themselves "swingers" but in fact, use the swing community as an adult dating service and draw from both singles and the opposite half of couples. To me at least, they don't meet the criteria.

AFF more so than any other site I know of, accommodates these folks, followed closely by C4P, but SLS, katcity (LOL) are not without guilt either.

LL's hands seem to be the most clean in this regard

[sunbuckus 3,565]

I'm not so sure about that. There is an entire demographic of singles on every swing site who are vast in number but under the radar, some of who have spouses with varying degrees of knowledge and acceptance of their activities, who call themselves "swingers" but in fact, use the swing community as an adult dating service and draw from both singles and the opposite half of couples. To me at least, they don't meet the criteria.

AFF more so than any other site I know of, accommodates these folks, followed closely by C4P, but SLS, katcity (LOL) are not without guilt either.

LL's hands seem to be the most clean in this regard

 

That's why I said "most likely". However, if someone views themselves in a certain light/label, you can argue with them that they aren't until you're blue in the face...it won't change their opinion until they are ready to make that change on their own. Just like you can tell someone over and over and over again for years that they need to exercise to get healthier but they have to be the ones to take that first step.

[sunbuckus 3,565]

A recent thread made me think of this great discussion. There are wonderful singles in the swinger community that are clearly swingers because of their ability to understand the complexities of couple swapping without actually yet going through it or because they have couple swapped before being a single. And there are clearly singles in the swinger community that are not swingers, seeing only the trees and not the forest of what it really means to be a swinger. I almost took my frustration and anger out on another thread because it was so very clear to me that there was a disdain for swinging couples but I decided to bring it over here instead because I didn't want to be scolded. And I thought it would be a great way to see what some of the new members of the forum think of this discussion.

[CalendarGirl 148]

This is right up my alley Sunbuckus! I get a little irritated when I hear that singles can't be swingers. I love what you said here:

 

There are wonderful singles in the swinger community that are clearly swingers because of their ability to understand the complexities of couple swapping without actually yet going through it or because they have couple swapped before being a single. And there are clearly singles in the swinger community that are not swingers, seeing only the trees and not the forest of what it really means to be a swinger.

 

However why does the word "single" even need to be in the sentences? Can't the same be said for couples? Some people "get" swinging and some don't. Why is it so often the "singles" are accused of not "getting it" just because we're not a part of a couple. I don't think that's a strong enough of an argument.

[sunbuckus 3,565]

However why does the word "single" even need to be in the sentences? Can't the same be said for couples? Some people "get" swinging and some don't. Why is it so often the "singles" are accused of not "getting it" just because we're not a part of a couple. I don't think that's a strong enough of an argument.

 

You are right, CalendarGirl, there are couples that don't get it either and I would think that they usually don't last very long in the community because others pick up on it and stay away or swinging causes enough of a crack to make the relationship break because they aren't able to mend the crack. Singles that don't understand can last longer in the community, flying under the radar, so to speak and learn (or not learn) that it isn't just about having sex.

[angelkin 1,326]

If we could apply the word 'lifestyler" instead of swinger, I think anyone who fits into the community would be a lifestyler...that would include singles, poly groups, AND couples. There is a mindset that determines is someone (anyone) actually "gets it" or not. You are both correct to state that not every couple "gets it". To me, swinging/lifestyling is about embracing our sexual freedom in a way that steps outside what the rest of the world deems as socially acceptable - and if doing that as part of a couple, that requires love, acceptance and communication skills beyond what a traditional relationship demands. As a single, those same skills are applied in a different way - but still necessary - such as loving oneself enough to allow sexual freedom, accepting that others may never understand your choices, and excellent communication with those you meet and play with. To me, it's very much the same - the difference is if you go it alone or have a partner in crime.

[sunbuckus 3,565]

My beef earlier was that someone could be in the lifestyle, be adventurous sexually but not have that experience of swapping as a couple so it made that single appear to actually hold themselves above swinging couples because they couldn't understand why couples would be non-monogamous. They had no problem being the third in a threesome but being a part of the swinger/lifestyler community sounded shameful to them. They didn't want anyone to know, couldn't see themselves becoming a partner to someone in the LS, and had the opinion that swingers are like sex addicts. But that isn't something that shows up...it's all internal. Is there some kind of main idea/experience that helps someone to "get it" versus those that don't?