Christian Swingers - Share Your Feelings

Thanks for the compliments gang. When I was a christian, I had pretty much the same attitude, but my opinions seemed to be in the minority. My reasons for leaving the church(es) are many and varied and that was just one of them.

When I was being raised, my parents made me go to mass on most sundays. I didn't want to go. It was an hour out of my week that I felt was a waste of time. So I was not raised to be religious. As an adult, after I left the catholic church (or was booted out for getting divorced...take your pick) I tried a couple of other denominations. I tried to approach them with an open mind as well as open eyes. All too soon, I was, I guess disillusioned is the proper word, with all of them. That's what led me to my current path. My beliefs in the "divinity" of the sexual act, if performed without the intent to cause harm, have not changed over the years. I still think that sex is a natural part of the experience of living. Mankind is the one who puts the prohibitions and restrictions on the rest of us.

Thought this link would lend a little something to ya'lls conversation. I don't know how reliable it is, but it's an interesting read.

I'm about to start another thread about part of it.

R

This is an area I am battling with myself. I am a Christian.

My wife passed away recently. While it had been many years since we had a swinging lifestyle, I still remember it well. Due to her medical problems, we had not had much of a sex life in a while.

Just last Friday I visited a single female I met on SLS and haven't felt that alive in years. I know that it would not be viewed in a positive life by my friends, especially where we plan take it (New Years at a Club, etc.).

So I guess for now, at least, I'll keep my new lives separate.

JoeB,

That is neat that you had such a good experience.

I can certainly understand your keeping it private. There isn't many church people, let alone leaders that can handle it. I pray this part of your life will be blessed and a blessing to those you meet. It sure sounds like you were a blessing to your late wife.

I have read much of the post regarding Christainity and swinging and sex. There are many levels of "culture" happeing here. It all seems rather narrow in scope (not to be mean). There is what the bible teaches, and what have been interputed ... example... Many think that adam and eve ate the "apple" well, there is nothing regarding apples in the story! However, over the years, hearing it was an apple, we begin to think, well it has to be an apple... and take it for granted. Church teaching, bible stories, have been over ladened by cultural understanding which is not necessary true. Just a thought.... it seems we are sharing "religions" at a very literal level... just my two cents... and by the way... "It was the apple in the tree that caused the sin, it was the pear on the ground!" Well, I def dont belive that either....

Something is puzzling me in this whole thread. Just what definition of "christian" is being batted about?

Why do I ask? Well, at last glance, some 80% of the USA self-identify as "christian". But there are catholics, presbyterians, methodists, LDS, southern baptists, not-southern-baptist baptists, episcopalians, anglicans, AME, lutherans, jehova's witnesses, christian scientists, and I've given up trying to track all the various charismatics and evangelicals. All are (though many of them wouldn't agree the others are) christian sects.

For myself, I was raised presbyterian, then methodist, then did a lot of exploring (living three doors from a catholic church as a child and having lots of talks with a jesuit in residence there will get ya thinkin'). Ultimately I realized the error of my ways, and chucked the whole mess.

Seems to me that the majority of those (in the population at large, I've no real idea at present about here) who say they're "christian" (as opposed to identifying a particular sect to which they belong) tend on closer questioning to turn out to belong to some evagelical or charismatic group.

So I'm curious on a number of fronts. Two follow.

People bandy about bible verses like everyone has the same take on what they mean, yet that's manifestly untrue. Best way I know to start "discussions" amongst a group of clergyman is to claim a particular verse has a particular meaning. Are all y'all thinking that most people do take the same meaning from a given passage?

And in among all those verses are the usual old testament references (which are where lots of the strict stuff is). Dunno about y'all, but my personal take after years of regular church-goin' and who knows how many sunday school classes and "vacation bible school" was that the new testament was the "new covenant" and that meant the old one was obsolete. So what's up with runnin' back to the old one every time someone wants to make some theoretically moral point? Hell, if it were the "governing law", we'd all effectively still be jewish, right?

So I'm just askin', as this is one of the more civil conversations of the type I've yet seen on line. No offense intended. Fire away if ya like.

And since someone is bound to ask: I profess no faith at all. None. Nada. Zilch. Zero. To be honest, every definition of god that I've ever seen as expressed by any organized religion is much too narrow, small, and mean-spirited to be one I could call "omni"-anything. Call me an agnostic. Call me an atheist if ya like. Just don't call me late to dinner.

Okay - I am in the mood to go ahead and post at length...

It might be the fact that my other chore tonight is painting... And I am taking a break...

It might be because I had some rather deep conversations with fellow Christians today and it was refreshing to be able to talk about something other than my sexual choices...

Here's a broad view - simplified - but helpful for those of you who ask "does the Bible have an issue with swinging?"

Just so you know, I tend to simplify things. It comes from years of working with youth. You can't get too deep and too "verse-y" or you lose them. And, honestly, that's fine with me. There is no reason to try to impress anyone by getting chapter and verse here. I will if need be...

Well - let's look at marriage. It all begins in Genesis... And I do mean ALL: Light, dirt, animals, marriage... It all begins there... God says about Adam and Eve that the two shall become one flesh. Historically, Christianity (and by that I mean most Catholic and Protestant sects - but certainly the largest part of Christian orthodoxy) has interpreted that to mean: SEX! You will marry and you will have sex - and that with one person. So that is it.

Let me ask you a question - do you really believe that the picture that God is painting when He says "one flesh" is really sex??? I mean - really? If you are married, you know that marriage is far more than that - it is bills, children, work, play, buying homes, planting bushes, deciding what to watch on TV...

For me - sex being the definition of "one flesh" seems to make marriage sort of trivial. I mean - if marriage is a 24 hour day - sex is 1/24th of that...

Right?

One flesh = sex = a very limited view of marriage...

And I don't buy it...

After all - the rest of the Old Testament is filled with Godly men - men who God Himself says are after his "own heart" - marrying many wives, having a ton of concubines, sleeping around on a whim and even buying a prostitute from time to time...

Could some of this have been sin in God's eyes?

Sure...

But certainly if it was really an issue, God would have pitched a serious bitch over it, but He was largely silent.

Why?

Simple...

Women were property - men the owners of that property. Did David sin with Bathsheba? Only in the sense that he stole property... Look it up...

The idea of not committing adultery was the same idea as not planting different seeds in the same field. You have no idea what sort of crop is going to grow. The woman was the field - the man the farmer - and his seed was the only crop that was allowed to be planted... Keeping the bloodlines pure...

Of course, the man was pretty much free to plant that seed where ever he wished.

Now - fast forward to the New Testament. Jump right into the book of Galatians. Paul makes a pretty remarkable statement:

"There is no more Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female..."

In other words - there was a new radical equality now that Jesus had come - the plan of God accomplished - grace delivered - reconciliation given...

And why not?

The reason God wanted purity in the blood lines was to prove the heritage of Christ. That done - it lost its importance... But more significantly Women were no longer the "field" - men no longer the "farmer". Women had freedom to do with their bodies the same thing that men could do - which was to express themselves sexually.

Christianity then - is actually a champion religion of sexual freedom...

Now Christianity does frown on sexual immorality - and thank God it does! Sex can destroy lives if not handled correctly. It is a precious gift that we have been given. The marriage bed is not to be defiled - after all the marriage is the very "object lesson" of a healthy spiritual relationship.

But the Bible also teaches that the law can be summed up in this: love does no harm.

Let's contrast cheating with swinging - always a "hot topic". Swinging is a choice that a couple makes - in agreement. And the best swinging relationships are one that are actually deepened by the experience because of the trust and communication it takes to share your fantasies.

Cheating - on the other hand is to lie and hurt those who trust you.

So - which is the immorality that God warns against? The one that does no harm - or the one that does?

Or is God simply a cosmic buzz kill who simply wants to make our lives dull?

I, for one, take Jesus seriously when He says, "I come that you may have life - and have it to the full!" Since I have begun living under that faith, my life has been more rich, more abundant, and honestly that spiritual "grasp" has been stronger.

I know that lots of folks will poke holes in what I just wrote...

But, like I said, this is a very simple version of what I believe. Not intended to be a complete "theology of swinging" - simply intended to give people a little insight on how someone with an extensive background and a deep love for his faith can come to a place where he sincerely believes that swinging - a shared joy between a deeply in love husband and wife, can be okay.

I typically avoid these conversations - or make small observations - because I know that this is something that can cause a lot of needless debate. My only hope is that those who struggle with their faith - and their desire to swing - will not abandon one for the other - but sincerely, prayerfully, faithfully pursue the only things that - in my opinion - really matter: a deep relationship with God and a similarly deep relationship with the one who God made for them.

That - in a nutshell - is my belief.

Very well said, Spoo.

In some ways I occasionally envy those of you with that strong a faith in a kind of wistful sort of way. While I'm comfortable with how I think about the world, it would be nice, every now and again, to be able to feel that certain about anything, almost as a sort of vacation.

Experience has taught me that's not to be, however. And except for those rare oments (and getting rarer all the time) I'm glad I'm the way I am. And I'm happy for those, as well, who can have a strong faith and not use it as a cudgel against others. On the other hand, it's truly sad to see just how many folks, regardless of their particular faith, seem to end up unhappy about so many other aspects of their lives because of aspects of (or statements by others of) that faith.

Seems to me that's not something any god would want.

Hey there,

We're Christians--she's Luthern, I'm Pentecostal--and I agree we have the freedom in Christ to be swingers and still be believers in Christ.

Here is a site I want to recommend to anyone I think you'll enjoy:

Christian Pro Erotic

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ChristProErotic/

Iam in the ministry and this is how I approach the subject. All sin originates within the individual. Hate, murder, envy, lust, adultry, etc. sin is any action or idea that causes intentional malicious harm to self or others. When you practice intentional harm you fall outside the doctrine of Christ which is to loveGod and love others. We do cause harm sometimes intentionally sometimes not hence the reason we need Jesus Christ. He saves us. We do not save ourselves. 
 

my wife suffers from chronic pain due to some medical conditions. I witness this daily for years and it is very upsetting to me to watch her suffer. Helpless? Not quite. Sex seems to give the longest lasting pain relief. More so than morphine and other prescription opiates. We been noticing and paying attention for many years. I suggested we try to add a third person to our sex life. Male or female mattered not to me but what she needed to feel better and get some pain relief. We were both apprehensive but battled on through this knowing the end result would be a better quality of life. 
 

we had our first meetup and it went most excellent. She was blindfolded lying on the bed prone. Of course I was right there with her. I had the other man come in and strip down and start performing oral on her from behind while she performed oral on me. We then switched positions while I licked her and fingered her from behind while she sucked him. No other man has touched her or has she touched but me for 35+ years. We stood up and she was sandwiched between us I was in front kissing her and caressing while he entered her from behind while she stroked me quite frantically. Only her and I kissed and only I talked. I had this scripted out and we discussed before hand what would take place. This really helped her envision what was to happen and she felt safer knowing. We got back on the bed and he entered her from behind while sher gave me oral again. I her her climb on top of me and asked if she wanted to be double penetrated. This guy had a longer penis but was thinner than mine so we both thought the dp would be more comfortable if he entered her anally. During this the other guy and I had some proximity contact and I lost my erection. She did not care and went back to sucking me off while he penetrated her ass from behind. He was wearing a condom. I had pull out and ejaculate on her ass and pussy. He girt up and watched for awhile while I made her squirt with clitoral stimulation while she sucked me off. He left quietly. We hooped in the shower and sher sucked me off again. 
 

the pain relief lasted several hours well into the next day. This super charged our sex life like we in our teens again for several weeks. We in our 50s. I thought it was super sexy but my only goal was to improve her life and it worked. It also has seemed to draw us closer and to more openly. We are discussing are next adult adventure. God is good. 

On 11/8/2005 at 6:14 PM, intuition897 said:

When we allow one another the freedom to express ourselves sexually, we are allowing each other to exercise our right to choose. Essentially, this is like a renewing of our vows every time we choose to go home with each other rather than someone else.

As I scanned this old thread, this made me realize how we in our poly family are fundamentally different from swingers.  We became a family unit through accretion of young adults a decade ago, then through having children.  During that time, I have come to realize that my husband loves Lora more than me.  But that's ok, because he still loves me as much as ever, and I love her too.

We are willing to not only remold the concept of sexuality within a committed marriage, but marriage itself.