An open and honest talk about ED

[arvcpl]

I know I often come off as obnoxious and crude in many of posts posts but I do wish to have an open and frank discussion about something I think is a real issue for countless people in the lifestyle and I assure you all that I will be nothing but sensitive, compassionate and approach this with great humility.

This past weekend we had an encounter with a very nice couple and for about the umpteeth time in row the other male was unable to perform. My wife and I got to looking back and crunching the numbers and the vast majority of the times we have been with another couple or couples the other male could not perform at all or had great difficulty at one time or another.

I won't pretend that this has never been an issue with me either. I have always eventually been able to get into action and get the job done for both parties but there have been times I did not perform to my expectations or to my satisfaction.

I do not have ED. In fifteen years of marriage I have not failed once at home with my wife but I have had difficulty a few times in swinging situations. Many of the other men that have failed have also claimed that they have never had any trouble with there own partner at home and I believe them.

I have no reason to believe our experiences are unique. I believe that ED within the swinging environment may be epidemic but people don't talk about it much. I'd like to change that and I'd like to talk about it openly and frankly and see if there are some things that can be done to correct it.

This is having a serious impact on our enjoyment of the lifestyle. In a couple years of swinging we could probably count on one hand the number of times that someone did NOT have some kind of performance problem. Many of these are healthy and vigorous guys that claim to have never had any problems outside of the lifestyle and I believe most of their sincerity. My wife is getting frustrated to the point that it is having a very detrimental effect on her enjoyment of the lifestyle and she cannot help but taking it personally thinking that she is not attractive or desirable. It has been a real downer on me as well since often times the other couple makes such a big deal over it and blows the mood for everyone.

I think there have got to be some common variables that can contribute to this and I also think there has to be some solutions since these are healthy guys with no prior histories of ED.

Please share you thoughts and insights and experiences as well as please offer freely any possible solutions, tricks or techniques that can offer some help. If someone has a failure to perform it does not just effect that guy and his partner, It can turn a whole evening into a bust for everyone as some guys just turn into assholes and cause scenes and discomfort for everyone when it happens.

Any advice, feedback and solutions will be greatly appreciated. Please offer any observations you have made and offer any tricks or techniques that have worked for you. Thank you.

[The Fuse]

Like you, I do not mean my post to be confrontational or belittling. I'll just share a few anecdotes from what Mr. Fuse and I have seen in three years of swapping.

Mr. Fuse has had trouble only once in all of that time (might have been twice but I am not sure when the other time was). A little oral solved that right away. At home, he is always hard when he wants to be. But he knows when he is not in the mood, as well.

We have seen a few other guys have trouble. As they get into their late 40s and early 50s, which is the oldest I've seen, it becomes more frequent. Condoms are a big factor, IMO. One of them sprang to attention on our third playdate, when we agreed to go bareback. The other could get an erection but couldn't keep it for very long if he had a condom on. I've had more than one partner who could get an erection, then had to hurry-hurry-hurry while getting the condom on and starting intercourse.

Two others, I chalk up to either general performance anxiety *or* maybe they just weren't that into me. One of those, we were only with once. The other, had one or two good playdates and one or two with issues.

I've seen a guy whose erection is *extremely* reliable flag a bit in a situation where there were three couples in the room. Just a lot of people around.

My opinion is that our expectations of men are generally a bit unfair, if we expect them always to be ready. The stereotype is that men never get enough sex and are always hard and ready for action. I think the reality, for some men at least, is more complicated. Some men fit the stereotype, some don't.

I wonder, how old are your wife's playmates? Are they in good physical shape? If they are over 50, not in good shape, or perhaps if they have had more than one drink, or if it is very late at night, any of those things could be a contributing factor.

And the loaded questions... I suppose if you feel that the number of "problems" your wife has run into is a lot higher than expected, well... you do have to at least consider the possibility that she is doing something to turn them off. That is not a pleasant thing to consider, I realize. I don't know what the numbers are, nor was I there when you had your experiences. It is very easy to brush it off as "it's not you", a certain amount of time. Up to some point, you can attribute your problems to bad luck.

But... what if it's something else? So I ask the following questions about your wife relative to herself and her playmates. For everyone else reading this out there who has also experienced a lot of problems with male playmates, these questions might apply. Is she overly, and overtly, expectant of them? Is she an active, enthusiastic, positive lover with them, or is she more passive? Or does she go straight for the cock right off, without much foreplay, and wonder why it's not pointing?

Does she give oral?

When getting down to business, does she somehow telegraph her past frustrations and perpetuate the problem with her "vibe"? Low expectations can easily translate to reality.

I have to ask these things, because you did not address them in your original post. I hope these questions don't cause offense.

[SW_PA_Couple]

Additional reading: http://www.swingersboard.com/forums/...e-advance.html

[Chicup]

My opinion is that our expectations of men are generally a bit unfair, if we expect them always to be ready. The stereotype is that men never get enough sex and are always hard and ready for action. I think the reality, for some men at least, is more complicated. Some men fit the stereotype, some don't.

To play the advocate of the dark lord yet again....

I'm of the opinion that, if as a male you are not going out swinging 'ready' for sex then you shouldn't be out swinging that night. If a athlete comes to the game and isn't into it they get criticized for it. If I'm not in the mood for sex then I shouldn't put myself in a position where someone expects it. If you just want to go hang out a club and be social that night, thats fine, but just be social.

Now I know I'm a tad younger than average (and at this point only a tad) so maybe I'm just always 'hard and ready for action' because of that but I have a theory for a lot of the 'Swinger ED' and a solution.

I think for some of these guys they are so worried about performing that they might 'clean the pipes' prior, for others there is the sort of territorial having sex with their wife prior, or whatever other reason (perhaps so turned on by the thought of swinging if they are new). So they have sex recently, perhaps just prior, to going to the swinging event, and then you combine that with the extra pressure of an audience and thinking about your SO and bingo no wood.

The solution is obvious. HOLD OFF. Years ago when we first started I used to conspire with a husband to deprive the women of sex for at least a few days prior to us getting together. This meant that we were ready and they were ready to really go wild. To this day we never have sex the day prior to swinging (more for her) and often wait a couple of days. Being horny in that sort of situation is fun, being take it or leave it, not as fun.

So for those with medical ED thats unfortunate and not fair, but for those with 'swinger ED' as in 'he can get it up with his wife' or 'the condom makes it go away' don't have sex for a couple of weeks prior. Hell go a month if you are really worried, odds are you would be able to get it up for a goat while wearing a condom, drunk, at the 50 yard line of the superbowl after a month.

[SW_PA_Couple]

. . . So for those with medical ED thats unfortunate and not fair, but for those with 'swinger ED' as in 'he can get it up with his wife' or 'the condom makes it go away' don't have sex for a couple of weeks prior. . . .

What you have said here has suggested to me that inventing some language might be helpful.

Medical ED -- resulting from diabetes or prostate surgery or other medical
Swinger ED -- I like this one. Roughly equivalent to what would have happened to your boner if you were 13 years of age and your mother inadvertently walked into the room; a "psychological" reaction. This one could have subcategories.
Condom ED -- I am not able to suggest a cause but I have read about it here ofter enough.
Self-inflicted ED -- resulting from the consumption of alcohol
Self-doubt ED -- You are so worried about having ED that you experience ED (I hear this worrying about not getting enough sleep is a reason for not getting enough sleep).
Saint Rita Moreno ED -- You heard so many times in your religious-school education that a woman's body is a temple that Peter refuses to pass through the gate.

It is only partially my intention to make light. Are there other terms we could invent that would be helpful?

~M

[The Fuse]

To play the advocate of the dark lord yet again....

Aw, give us a break... you enjoy it. .

I'm of the opinion that, if as a male you are not going out swinging 'ready' for sex then you shouldn't be out swinging that night. If a athlete comes to the game and isn't into it they get criticized for it. If I'm not in the mood for sex then I shouldn't put myself in a position where someone expects it. If you just want to go hang out a club and be social that night, thats fine, but just be social.

I agree with this if you're just going to a club or a party. If you're not in the mood or you feel a bit off, you shouldn't try to play. And probably you don't have ED normally in that case anyway.

But if you've made plans with a couple in advance, and you just are tired that day or feel a little off, it's different. We hate getting canceled on. Our last time with a certain couple, the guy had some stomach issues and couldn't really do much. The next morning he looked like hell, and not from drinking. He has been kind of hit-or-miss with me since we first got together. I don't know if I'd call it ED or what. But the main point is that I was happy with what did happen, and was glad he came out. If they had canceled on us, I would have felt like that was a signal.

Now I know I'm a tad younger than average (and at this point only a tad) so maybe I'm just always 'hard and ready for action' because of that but I have a theory for a lot of the 'Swinger ED' and a solution.

I think for some of these guys they are so worried about performing that they might 'clean the pipes' prior, for others there is the sort of territorial having sex with their wife prior, or whatever other reason (perhaps so turned on by the thought of swinging if they are new). So they have sex recently, perhaps just prior, to going to the swinging event, and then you combine that with the extra pressure of an audience and thinking about your SO and bingo no wood.

This would annoy me... to know that my playmate had done something like that if they knew they'd be less likely to perform. It would be similar to if he'd drunk too much or ate something that often makes him feel sick. Just stupid and not really considerate.

The solution is obvious. HOLD OFF. Years ago when we first started I used to conspire with a husband to deprive the women of sex for at least a few days prior to us getting together. This meant that we were ready and they were ready to really go wild. To this day we never have sex the day prior to swinging (more for her) and often wait a couple of days. Being horny in that sort of situation is fun, being take it or leave it, not as fun.

Mr. Fuse and I definitely do this. But in those cases we've got plans that have been made at least those couple of days in advance. If you don't have a date and there's no party or club, then you might have to decide whether to have sex on the off chance that you might get a last-minute date.

So for those with medical ED thats unfortunate and not fair, but for those with 'swinger ED' as in 'he can get it up with his wife' or 'the condom makes it go away' don't have sex for a couple of weeks prior. Hell go a month if you are really worried, odds are you would be able to get it up for a goat while wearing a condom, drunk, at the 50 yard line of the superbowl after a month.

Okay, a month seems pretty extreme. I don't think we'd even be swinging at all if that meant we had to abstain with each other for that long. I'd say if you can't build up a head of steam in a couple of days and with a little bit of blue pill help ("Why, oh why, didn't I take the blue pill?"), then it's time to try something else. Like maybe separate rooms or whatever would enhance the mood.

[IvoryTowers]

What you have said here has suggested to me that inventing some language might be helpful.

Medical ED -- resulting from diabetes or prostate surgery or other medical
Swinger ED -- I like this one. Roughly equivalent to what would have happened to your boner if you were 13 years of age and your mother inadvertently walked into the room; a "psychological" reaction. This one could have subcategories.
Condom ED -- I am not able to suggest a cause but I have read about it here ofter enough.
Self-inflicted ED -- resulting from the consumption of alcohol
Self-doubt ED -- You are so worried about having ED that you experience ED (I hear this worrying about not getting enough sleep is a reason for not getting enough sleep).
Saint Rita Moreno ED -- You heard so many times in your religious-school education that a woman's body is a temple that Peter refuses to pass through the gate.

It is only partially my intention to make light. Are there other terms we could invent that would be helpful?

~M

I like these terms! I have to say that every single man I have played with has had some sort of erection problem. Most have been short lived (the man self-ministered or I performed oral sex and all was well after some time), but in a couple of cases the guy just didn't get hard or kept going limp.

I'm hoping it wasn't my performance--I tried hard to offer whatever he might want (oral sex, a hand job, a break, his own partner)--but I am willing to admit that in some cases the guy might not have been into me.

However, since it is so widespread (Mr. Ivory has had some staying hard problems as well, which, like others, he never has at home) I have come to the conclusion that this is a natural part of swinging.

First off, no matter how much we all believe this is not cheating and it's good and fine, some part of our brain recognizes that this is not the normal situation and that, in fact, this situation is supposed to get us in a lot of trouble with the spouse.

Second, all the men I've been with have been very considerate and focused on my pleasure, which of course distracts them from their pleasure.

Third, I really do believe that more bodies=more ED. You'd think it would be the opposite, but it's distracting to have another couple having sex right next to you! Even if it's also arousing, it can still distract the blood from flowing in the right direction.

And I'm the first to admit that I don't always orgasm in play sessions, for the above reasons. I have a great time, but sometimes I just can't relax and focus on what's happening to me long enough to get there. That's fine--the sex with Mr. Ivory is that much hotter next time. But I sure am glad I don't have a meter attached to my crotch!

[NotSorry]

Thanks for bringing this up. It is not something I would have anticipated being so common.

[NotSorry]

But I sure am glad I don't have a meter attached to my crotch!

ha, me too!

[MrkLin]

Just tossing a thought out here for consideration. During a routine physical a few years back, my doctor told me I had a very high cholesterol level. I didn't need medication for it - just a change of diet and more exercise. He asked if I had any 'erectile issues,' and I told him that there were times that I wished that things were a bit firmer, but there was no major problem. He gave me a sample pack of Viagra, and off I went. I was back the next week to get a full prescription.

Since then, I have changed my diet and am a lot more physically active. The problems are gone now as well. According to my doctor, there is a direct relationship between cholesterol levels and erectile function - it's all about blood flow, remember. I had never heard this before. All I know is that it worked in my case. My cholesterol level has gone down, and my erectile problems have ceased.

So, just a suggestion from a guy who has been there - if you're having intermittent problems, or just aren't satisfied with the 'quality' of your erections, check with your doctor about your cholesterol levels (If you're over 40, you should have that checked, along with your PSA level anyway.) It might be something as simple as cutting back on certain foods and becoming a bit more active. I know it worked for me.

[Precocious]

Okay, it's starting to sound like swinging is a performance event. If that's so, then I don't want it. People are human and not infallable. Everyone has a bad day (or night - whatever the case may be).

Mrs. Precocious

[Chicup]

Just tossing a thought out here for consideration. During a routine physical a few years back, my doctor told me I had a very high cholesterol level. I didn't need medication for it - just a change of diet and more exercise. He asked if I had any 'erectile issues,' and I told him that there were times that I wished that things were a bit firmer, but there was no major problem. He gave me a sample pack of Viagra, and off I went. I was back the next week to get a full prescription.

Since then, I have changed my diet and am a lot more physically active. The problems are gone now as well. According to my doctor, there is a direct relationship between cholesterol levels and erectile function - it's all about blood flow, remember. I had never heard this before. All I know is that it worked in my case. My cholesterol level has gone down, and my erectile problems have ceased.

So, just a suggestion from a guy who has been there - if you're having intermittent problems, or just aren't satisfied with the 'quality' of your erections, check with your doctor about your cholesterol levels (If you're over 40, you should have that checked, along with your PSA level anyway.) It might be something as simple as cutting back on certain foods and becoming a bit more active. I know it worked for me.

This is the problem of correlation does not equal causation.

High cholesterol doesn't impede blood flow unless you have a clot, and I'd be far more willing to guess it was the lifestyle change and Viagra that made the real difference.

[rpu3]

Okay, it's starting to sound like swinging is a performance event.

How so?

[jdavisauto]

This is a very touchy subject that will at one time or another will affect all men. With me I have leukemia diabetes and high blood pressure. With the medicines that I take it does effect me in many ways and at times it take a little longer to get into the action and a little longer to finish with everyone else. My wife is a very understanding lady but at time I’m just not able to meet her needs. When we play with other couples or single ladies they are told upfront what to expect and what may happen. I love watching her with other couples and other ladies and she loves being watch. I would say that 99.99% of the people are very understanding and most times it works out for everyone involve.

[good times]

First I feel compelled to say that I have tried the "Hold off" for a day or two method and it didn't work at all for me.

That said, I have made a few observations over the years regarding this problem.

For me, the number one reason why this happens is that the woman I am with is just not doing it for me. This does not mean I do not find her attractive or sexy. What it means is that her idea of what sex is and mine are not in sync.

A good example of this is our most recent swinging experience. We met a couple through SLS and agreed to meet at one of the local clubs. They were new (had only had one previous play experience), but we didn't let that deter us, we just spent a little extra time getting to know them to make sure they both seemed into this and on the same page, as we usually do with newbies. We thought we had thoroughly covered each others rules before going to the play room, but we were wrong. Once we got to the play room and got started, the woman said, "oh, by the way, no kissing is allowed". Now normally we would have ended it right there, but it was a slow night at the club and they were really nice folks, so we pressed on. Next surprise, she says to me, "oh, don't play with or suck my breasts, I just hate that. And while I am on the subject, I really don't care much for receiving oral either, it just doesn't do anything for me". OK, at this point, I was beginning to see that this was going to be a "less than optimum" experience. Sure enough, while everything came to proper attention while she was giving me oral, by the time the condoms were on, the condom was quickly becoming unnecessary, as I was deflating rapidly due to a lack of stimulating ways to occupy myself. So, at this point we called it a night.

The funny thing about this encounter to me is that it kills the notion that a lot of folks have, that all guys are turned on by the same things. Because, other than the kissing thing, which this couple claims they like to do with each other. After talking to them, it turns out that he doesn't care for playing with tits or giving oral to a women. So, while they are a perfect match for each other, they weren't even a close match for us. The funny part is, because he isn't into these things that she doesn't care for, it never occurred to them to mention them until play was underway. In other words, because these things are not important parts of sex for them, it never occurred to them that these things would be essential for someone else to be sexually stimulated.

The second most common reason for me to have a problem is being tired. I can be all raring to go when we head out to the club. But then by midnight or later when it is time to perform I am more ready for a nap than I am for sex. So, to mitigate this problem I have often let it be pretty well known that if one wants my "A" game, we better get started early. In fact it is an often heard comment around the club that GT turns into a pumpkin at midnight.

A distant third is to many distractions, over time though I have gotten to the point that I can usually shut the distractions out. This seems to be the key, at least it was for me, experience seems to be the only way to get over this one.

Lastly is the problem of defeating ones self. What happens is that you worry that you may have trouble "keeping it up", and because you are worrying so much about it, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It is easy to say, "don't do that" but my experience is that this too is only overcome with experience.