Signals-That you're not Ok

[two4youinswva]

So my question for couples is:

"What type of things do you do or say to let your significant other know there is something wrong in any uncomfortable situation in a group setting, without making a scene or an ass of yourself, and to not ruin the mood for everyone else in the group?

We use "The Quick Frown of Consternation".
This is a quick furrowing of the brows, while still sporting a smile, that lasts one second at the very most. When one of us sees this, we know it's time to break away for a quick conference to find out "what's up".
- Sometimes the conference isn't necessary. You kind of figure out what the frown is for. But if there's doubt, a chat is best.

FWIW, we use this method in vanilla and swing settings. It is very versatile, as it can be used for anything from "this guys being an ass", to "we need to change the subject, it's upsetting Aunt Myrtle".

This is one of those things we never set out to make our code, it just developed over time like so many things couples do to increase non-verbal communication.

Here's how I would respond:

Ask him to repeat what he said, as if you didn't hear or understand. Any repeated remark is weakened and will seem more foolish when you reply.

"Well, I'll tell you what, Cowboy... It doesn't seem to be working."

Ignore him. That's what will gore his psyche most.

I like all three of these, especially if the first and second one are used together for a "One-Two Punch", and the third is used to finish him off.

[sweet_tna]

Here's how I would respond:

Ask him to repeat what he said, as if you didn't hear or understand. Any repeated remark is weakened and will seem more foolish when you reply.

"Well, I'll tell you what, Cowboy... It doesn't seem to be working."

Ignore him. That's what will gore his psyche most.

Mr. Alura

Brilliant!

=)

[celtic239]

Having grown up in the bar business in the "vanilla world", I would have interpreted this type of behavior as an invitation to go out to the parking lot so I could kick the shit out of the guy. I know that there is the occassional drunk who oversteps his boundaries and that it is usally the booze talking. The "alpha-male/test the newbie" guy appears to be predatorial and not the type of individual who would be tolerated in a relatively small social setting (swingers clubs/parties) for any length of time. So just how prevalent are these type of guys in the swinging community?

[ownerspet]

All of these are good suggestions. I do appreciate the input, I do have to admit, that Alura's suggestion, of asking the guy to repeat himself probably would have been most appropriate. These are definitly things I will keep in mind in the future, but this seems so bold and probably rare behavior that I don't think I will ever encounter this situation again.

Thanks for the input, I was looking for honesty and I feel like you guys and gals gave it to me.

[lovinher]

I would have pulled the asshole aside and had a not so friendly talk with him. But I know it would never had gone past the first "feel up". Lovinhim can handle her own and I may have had to protect the jerk.

For us the signal is a squeeze on the arm or leg. That tells me we need to go somewhere and talk. We don't need a visual signal. I can tell in a second what is going on her head-unless I did something wrong. That is possible because we have been together for 65 years-or is it 35?
Right-35

[fun4Ds]

Recently something happenned that was somewhat minor, that motivated this post. I met this couple the Mrs. has known for years, and we were in a large group setting / atmosphere with other lifestyle couples around. The male half of this couple was very forward, and it seemed like at the time his body language and mannerisms were just from someone that was screwing with my head. It wasn't the fact that he was kissing my wife or feeling her up. I don't know what it was that made me pick up on the fact that he was screwing with my head, and at the time I didn't really know how to point this out without looking like an ass.

I think the situation you are describing here is something I too, have felt before. The words said to me were slightly different, but the situation was very similar. This is one very big reason I have said in many posts, that we not only learn about our partners. We learn about about ourselves as well

So I ignored it, and after-all it was just kissing and feeling her up. At this point, I knew it wasn't going beyond that, so don't worry about it was my attitude.

Maybe I felt different in the way that you ignored it. I didn't ignore the situation.... I went into more of a chameleon mode. If that makes sense . Its just the only way to describe now, how I felt then. I just wanted to blend in. I was new and didn't quite understand how I felt, but I knew I felt something. Mostly, I just didn't want anyone to see that I was confused at the moment.

After all when it happened to me, they were more experienced as well. I didn't know to much about using what I had learned in the way of social swinging skills/rules.... that worked for me personally.

Then, something happened to alleviate the pressure that probably wouldn't happen in any similar situations. He looked at me right in front of my wife, and told me that he was just kissing my wife and feeling her up to f--- with me.

Now this is wrong as can be. Perhaps some sort of guy thing in the outside world, but not in my swinger world. Laugh in the swinger world and the whole world laughs with you. Get pissed off and show it. And its a very small world, alone. Or unless at best, your partner is by your side.

For me, I am alpha enough to man up for some good sex and please the women I'm with. Alfa to Alfa, there is going to be some lashing out. I just don't like the possibility of those results in a swinging situation. If a man just wants to joke around a bit with me, thats cool and I can roll with a good joke. But to deliberately fuck with me and do it in front of my wife in a degrading way..... Then put me in the limelight. Well, thats not cool or impressive to me or Mrs.fun either.

I cant imagine this person being experienced and doing this without failing somewhere in his past.... and not learning from it . Some people are just who they are I guess. Knowing myself better is knowing they aren't my type.

At this point, could I ask. " What were your feelings about his partner/ wife ? What vibe was she giving you ?

So my instinct was definitly right.

I totally agree, you were right about what you felt and what you heard. Sometimes people are who they are and can successfully play with others. Then knowing more about them as time goes on. They show enough of themselves in a way that we don't want to play with them again. In this case the guys opened his mouth and said the wrong thing to the wrong person. Sometimes we take things verbally from long term playmates that roll on, as nothing more than a joke. Let a new person say the same thing, and it takes on a whole new meaning. Its part of the social aspect I had to come to terms with personally. Like I say, I had to learn how to deal with people in a whole new way. Swinging with others is not at all like we live in the vanilla world.

While it wasn't going to a more involved play situation, I'm sure this is just one of many uncomfortable situations that you or other lifestyle couples end up in.

I think anyone with some experience could agree we end up in situations like yours and mine here. Sucks sometimes, but it does happen.

"What type of things do you do or say to let your significant other know there is something wrong in any uncomfortable situation in a group setting, without making a scene or an ass of yourself, and to not ruin the mood for everyone else in the group? Do you use hand signals? (I know that sounds cheesy)"

Hand signals work sometimes for us but not always. Actually, rarely do they work when the sex is in play. Then there needs to be EYE contact. Mrs.fun gets caught up in her interactions as do I and we would would miss each others signals. Unless there is eye contact, I don't want to look like a baseball player with two fingers up, rubbing my hand down my sleeve, meaning.. I'm uncomfortable here.

I don't want to be put in the spotlight by others. Mrs.fun always said lets just say "stop". Well that doesn't work for me personally in a group setting. It putts me in an uncomfortable place. I learned what works for me personally.

1. I try a hand signal. I don't want to give my secret signal here, but I do have one. We couldn't have more than one. Its too confusing especially when we are fucking. The hand signals are for social getting acquainted, only.

I have learned to get Mrs.funs attention. Its all about that EYE CONTACT

I just stand up and say "I'm not comfortable " If that is missed, I say STOP !There is no other way for us.

In a couple on couple situation, where it's not a large group it may really not matter, but I don't think anyone wants to look like they're at the center of drama by causing a scene (especially if you may be interested in others in the group). So I do realize getting out of uncomfortable situations can be a balancing act.

It is about balance in a sense, I see what you are saying. We do o.k with keeping our connection between ourselves now. Its what we learned through experience, being together.

[good times]

Yep, I would have to go along with Alura. My response would have been something like, "well, you sure aren't very good at it."

[socolais]

...The "alpha-male/test the newbie" guy appears to be predatorial and not the type of individual who would be tolerated in a relatively small social setting (swingers clubs/parties) for any length of time. So just how prevalent are these type of guys in the swinging community?

This is precisely why we'd rather take our party somewhere else. And when he finally exposes himself as a selfish control freak, we don't want to be in the fall-out zone. There will always be another party.

Of course there's alpha male behavior in almost every group setting and I think it would be very rare to see this level of expression at a party of known friends. For exactly the reason you mentioned, it won't be tolerated.

[elephantboy67]

I have been in a similar situation.
There was a mentor at the clyub we frequent lets call hime chris.
He was the guy everybody ooked up to and was instrumental in bringing sweetypie and I into the group.
Well He would always dance with her. or the new girls first. I kinda liked that sweety pie liked the attention and it broke the tension when we got there. We always felt welcome.
He kinda took more and more liberties with my pie than I liked.
Then on evening he told pie he wanted to f*** her with out me around.Enough was enough. He helped us set up our boundareis he negtaited them with his wife and with us as a couple.
I felt intimadated ane felt like I was looseing control.
I looked at pie and said what just happened. She snapped out of the moment and relized what just happened. Poor chris got kicked to the curb and hasnt found his way back to our good graces yet. I grew in my confidence around swinging.
This being said.
Be kind and patient with the newbe. They are the future of the group. I liked best when chris and his wife took us under their wings and coached us on how to be strong as a couple.
The coaching worked we are stronger than ever. And even weathered a swining ending storm.

[BiloxiCouple]

Back to part of your original question of what kind of signals do you use?

If we have a problem with someone who is with us, we use a code word. For us it is "I need a drink of tea". Since neither one of us drinks tea, it will get our attention without arousing suspicion. As soon as this is mentioned any play or conversation is suppose to stop and we leave the immediate vicinity to find out what is wrong.

To the problem you had with this individual. Yuk. Hopefully, if we had that problem and one of us started feeling uneasy we would have left the situation and communicated with each other with what is going on. That is one way of dealing with it.

And VegasLee's advice is right on too.

It's all up to you and Julie as to how you want to deal with negative situations.

[daddynbabygrl]

Everyone at this party were swingers and you hadn't met this couple (that your wife had known for years) until this party. Is that correct? Even if this couple had played with your wife before you were married, it seems quite rude to me that the husband wouldn't have gotten to know you and establish permission to touch before getting physical with your wife, even if it was "just kissing and feeling her up." And then to add the comment seems assholically (if I may coin a word) hurtful and exclusionary.

I like the new coined word, and agree with you.....plus plain rude to not get permission first.....but.....with the thought that the Mrs didn't stop the other guy, then maybe that's how *they* play together......for me and "Baby Girl", we don't kiss the opposite sex, so for us, this wouldn't have been tolerated.....

Unfortunatly, there are people who get their pleasure from making others uncomfortable..and love to push other's buttons.

Like any other poor behavior, it continues because it's allowed to continue. Many people in the Lifestyle prefer to be non-confrontational; a fact that button-pushers are aware of and use to their advantage.

We are 'old school' Golden Rule people...we don't disrespect other people and therefore refuse to tolerate disrespect from others toward ourselves.

In our case, G (our female half) wouldn't have had to 'discuss' it with me..she would have handed him his head verbally, knowing that if he wanted to continue to be an ass after that, M would be readily available to do the same physically.

The only way button-pushers learn is when they push that button that blows up in their face.

Agreed wholeheartedly.....my partner agrees that I won't put up with "anyone's" crap......in my own right, even as a "newbie", I have no problem challenging the "Alpha Male" of *ANY* group, insomuch as they want to be rude to me or my partner......

I don't want to be put in the spotlight by others. Mrs.fun always said lets just say "stop". Well that doesn't work for me personally in a group setting. It putts me in an uncomfortable place. I learned what works for me personally.

1. I try a hand signal. I don't want to give my secret signal here, but I do have one. We couldn't have more than one. Its too confusing especially when we are fucking. The hand signals are for social getting acquainted, only.

I have learned to get Mrs.funs attention. Its all about that EYE CONTACT

I just stand up and say "I'm not comfortable " If that is missed, I say STOP !There is no other way for us.

I agree, it's gotta be about the eye contact.....my problem tho, if any activity is happening with "Baby Girl", her eyes may be going into the back of her head in pleasure......so I'd have to wait for her to be less.......uh.......stimulated.

[petra6998]

My husband knows when I give him "the look" that something is up. It's general a curl of the eyebrows thing. Course he also gets that look at other times than when we are with potential playmates.

As far as what this jerk of a guy did, if that's how he is with the "group" is it really a group that you want to be involved with? If that would have been hubby and I well if I wouldn't have decked the guy for making me feel like a pawn, then he would have. Good job at keeping your cool....I would have had a hard time at that.

[Gordo]

He wasn't "screwing with your head", he was testing you. You're new to the group, and this is his way of asserting dominance within that group, letting you know that no matter who feeds your wife and cares for her, HE'S the alpha-dog, and has (and will continue to) copulate with her at will.

Let me guess.......this person is probably a little bigger than you, maybe a little more physically imposing, and has stronger ties within the group, correct? Doing this in front of everybody reasserts his position as alpha-dog to them, as well.

That was the wrong thing to do. You should have challenged him. I don't mean to a fight (although that's how these things often end up in vanilla bars) but looked him dead square in the eye and said, in as cold and expressionless of a tone as you could muster, "That's enough" Say nothing more, you're not entering a negotiation or a dialogue. There's no need to curse, raise your voice, or make threats. With assholes like this you simply have to draw the line one time, but you MUST do it convincingly. Do so once, and you probably won't have to do it again, ever.

As it now stands, you will probably have to do it at some point in the future, most likely when he's feeling his status slipping within the group.

This advice is right on the money. I can tell you from years of karate experience that he is woofing on you. Call it an interview for the fight.

And you failed the interview

Other than what he says above I would disagree with the need to raise the voice. The first time should be firm. Again this is not a negotiation. If not successful raise your voice loud enough to be heard by the group immediately around you calling attention to his behaviour. If that is not successful let the whole party know by the loudness of your voice. Don't allow him to start asking questions you feel compelled to answer or start a discussion. Words like please don't or other weak responses have no place here. This isn't a place for witty comebacks as some suggested or I should have said this to him....... it's time to DRAW THE LINE! (voice usage is part of the course I've suggested below)

What you're doing is letting him know you aren't his usual victim.

Group embarrassment should be enough of a deterent in this situation.

And you will be dealing with him in the future.

And for those of you that have no self defense skills may I suggest a cheap course that is the most effective in teaching someone to defend themselves in 3-4 hours that I've ever seen. It is an absolute must for women (it uses their own natural reactions very effectively) or kids. I could take down a 500 pound linebacker with it.

It's called the F.A.S.T or fast defense course. Around a $100 and probably a karate dojo in your town will teach it.

Video of a short fight. Ignore the rest it's instructor related:

FSA FAST Bulletman Fight - AOL Video

PS I have no connection with the course other than having taken it.

[shymxcpl]

Hey ownerspet... you still haven't answered what the Mrs. was doing while this was going on.

I am a believer that each person should at least try to take care of themselves so in this case maybe a safeword could have been used to let the Mrs. know that you were uncomfortable so SHE could stop the other dude. If she says no, it's not rude ...

[JustAskJulie]

Hey ownerspet... you still haven't answered what the Mrs. was doing while this was going on.

I am a believer that each person should at least try to take care of themselves so in this case maybe a safeword could have been used to let the Mrs. know that you were uncomfortable so SHE could stop the other dude. If she says no, it's not rude ...

Actually, I answered what the Mrs was doing in this post: http://www.swingersboard.com/forums/...tml#post324536