How to compensate the she's hot he's not syndrome?

[Tybee Swing]

Arvcpl, how has it played out, so far? If she sees a couple she likes, and as you said the other wife doesn't seem interested, does it end up being a threesome with you just watching or hanging around?

Have you found any pairs that you are both compatible with and were both able to play with, and if so, how did it work out?

[arvcpl]

Arvcpl, how has it played out, so far? If she sees a couple she likes, and as you said the other wife doesn't seem interested, does it end up being a threesome with you just watching or hanging around?

Have you found any pairs that you are both compatible with and were both able to play with, and if so, how did it work out?

We have had number of times that it has worked out fine and we have played with couples and a good time was had by all. In fact now that I think about it one of our favorite couples is the rare couple where the male half is actually considerably more attractive than the female. While she is of a little above average in looks she was a very hot lover... ummm hmmm...ok my mind wondered off a bit there, but anyway we are not ever able to get together with them very often due to distance and busy lives. The 3-some with me "hanging around" just isn't an option for me. If I am just on the sidelines I might as well just doing something else. I would never do that to my wife or to anyone else for that matter, I just don't believe in that. I know some people are ok with just watching but I am not one of them. Again, I don't want to give the impression that I have never played or that I am being treated rudely or intentionally being excluded. I was just curious if there were some ways for a typical guy to compensate for the she's hot he's not syndrome that seems to be so common and there has been some great advice so far.

[des1re06]

I am sure you are an attractive man and have alot to offer.

Have you considered house parties? The reason I ask is that at our house parties, the couples usually are free to mingle and don't necessarily play on a 2 by 2 basis. I'll explain.

We have 2 group rooms, and normally hubby is in the same room but may be with Jim's wife, while I'm with Bob. That way we don't have to worry about all this "all 4 must be attracted" kind of deal. There are also times where hubby is upstairs with Ted's wife, and I'm downstairs with Joe. We're all in the same house, so we let down some of those rules.

Hope this makes sense, and it may help you with some of that pressure you're putting on yourself. Have you told your wife about your frustration and is she willing to try something like a house party?

Hubby considers me a hot wife, and I asked him this question yesterday. He said that "I have had my "fantasy men" and now look to couples where the wife is interested in him moreso than just being selfish and considering my own desires, and he appreciates that." This is not to say that I "take one for the team". There must be interest in the husband for me, but he doesn't have to be Matthew McConaughey either.

Good luck to you!

Mrs. D

[Chicup]

You know not to use an internet cliché but this thread is meaningless without pictures.

[Tybee Swing]

Arvcpl, I'm glad to hear that you've been having fun and found some matches.

We recently met up with and had a fantastic time with a couple like you described - the husband was a bit more of a hottie than the wife. They were both very nice people and we all had a great personality match. He had a Body-By-Jake if you know what I mean, and while she was HWP, she'd had some kids and nature had taken it's course. Stretched skin makes it impossible to obtain the "tight" look that would make her match her husband no matter how much exercise, short of breast lift & tummy tuck surgery. (*By the way, we are by no means hard-bodies, we're just average people who try to take care of ourselves. Hard-bodies not required.*) This lady could have done much more for herself in the area of hair, makeup and clothes, which are very easy to do. He was very well-dressed/well-groomed. They seemed a bit mismatched on first impression. But WOW, they were both so hot - we had the time of our lives with them. They are a fantastic couple. We will gladly see more of them.

The 3-some with me "hanging around" just isn't an option for me. If I am just on the sidelines I might as well just doing something else. I would never do that to my wife or to anyone else for that matter, I just don't believe in that.

Dito We feel the same way about this. However, when we are engaging in marathon play with a couple (both of us very much involved), one of us may take a break and sit back from time to time while the other three keep going. This can be fun.

[tribbles]

arvcpl, you answered my questions perfectly....and I think Chicup nailed your problem.

There is nothing you can do, other than maybe surgery, to look more "Brad Pitt". Even that might not put you close enough to a fantasy male for many of the women you meet.

You aren't a fantasy male and that's just that....

I'd say, just keep enjoying it when it happens and the rest the time, relax and just have fun together. Don't make playing stressful and negative.

Enjoyment of what is possible and what does happen, is a big key to happiness here, IMHO.

[ShellyM]

Its true. What one woman finds HOTTT another one doesn't.
Take me for example. I get turned on by men most women I think don't. I like them to be on the chubbier side, not skinny. I LOVE men with chest hair, which most women don't from what I'm told lol. I adore men with dark hair and dark eyes, and I love love LOVE the 5:00 shadow. This is not the typical man most women find hottt I think lol. But I tell you what, it gets MY engines running lol.
Shelly

[iapr]

You know not to use an internet cliché but this thread is meaningless without pictures.

I think it would be pretty much meaningless with pictures as well. Don't misunderstand me the topic is valid and the points are good but pictures won't really help at all. I am sure if he posted pictures of the both of them that the women here would say he looked fine and to get out and have fun and the guys here would say she was a nice looking gal and that he was a fortunate man to have a hot wife and to have had some positive play experiences at all. He has never said he was unattractive or deformed, just a normal guy and that his wife is comparably more attractive than him. There is no reason not to believe that, the vast majority of couples vanilla and lifestyle are the same way. He sounds like a decent guy and decent guys often have beautifull wives. You said it yourself that women will marry a plain looking but nice guy but will want to play with pretty guys. That is probably what is taking place here.

The more I read into this the more I think the core issue is that he and his wife are interested in different types of people and they are having a hard time making a 4-way click. That is very common. It is also common to have the 'she's hot he's not thing going.' Mrs iapr and I are in the same boat there.

What else is at issue here is just good old human nature. I'll go back to what I said earlier, no man can match any woman when it comes to sexual opportunity. Even if the OP was an underwear model and she was downright ugly she would still have more play opportunities, that is just a design feature of the species.

If the OP had said that he wasn't getting anywhere and that noone was playing with him we may have something to work with and may be able to troubleshoot a little bit and see if there was something to correct. But from the way he talks it sounds more like he is doing fine but that he and the mrs are not completely in sync as a couple in regards to where their interests lay and in who they want to play with.

[iapr]

I dont want to give the impression that I have never played or that I am being treated rudely or intentionally being excluded. I was just curious if there were some ways for a typical guy to compensate for the she's hot he's not syndrome that seems to be so common and there has been some great advice so far.

As I said in my post above, I am wondering if the issue isn't more between you and your partner rather than any shortcomings on your part. If you had said that you never or rarely get to play then maybe there was some issue that could be identified and corrected but it sounds like you are doing all the right things already and are already reaping the benifits. I'm not saying that you don't have an issue it just may be in the dynamics between you and your wife and not just resting solely with you.

A good place to start may be just sitting down with her and showing her this thread. She may not grasp fully what your feelings on the matter are. You two may be able to work together in finding people that you both can mesh with. You may be able to help her see that some of us normal joes in the plain brown wrapper can be great guys and can be a lot of fun in the sack and that we may have a lot of other qualities that may take a little more time to appreciate.

And something that she may be able to help you with is to recognize some of the subtle signs that women give when they are interested in someone. If you are like me it pretty much takes someone reaching into my pants and saying, "I want some of this right now!" before I start to suspect that someone may be interested. Many of the very attractive women have learned to be very subtle in showing their interests because they are getting hit on so often they can't afford to be too explicit in their interests. For me it has been a long hard road but I have had a lot of help from mrs iapr and some people on this board (y'know who you are) to pick up on some signs that otherwise would have gone right over my head.

Other than that just keep doing what you are doing and maybe keep trying to always do it a little better, there is always room for improvement for everyone. Also the house party idea is a good one too. If you are in a safe and comfortable environment where you can each pursue your own interests a little more independantly that may work as well.

As with many things in swinging often the real issue is at home as opposed to the club and that is often the best place to start.

[Chicup]

I think it would be pretty much meaningless with pictures as well. Don't misunderstand me the topic is valid and the points are good but pictures won't really help at all. I am sure if he posted pictures of the both of them that the women here would say he looked fine and to get out and have fun and the guys here would say she was a nice looking gal and that he was a fortunate man to have a hot wife and to have had some positive play experiences at all. He has never said he was unattractive or deformed, just a normal guy and that his wife is comparably more attractive than him. There is no reason not to believe that, the vast majority of couples vanilla and lifestyle are the same way. He sounds like a decent guy and decent guys often have beautifull wives. You said it yourself that women will marry a plain looking but nice guy but will want to play with pretty guys. That is probably what is taking place here.

I'm often amazed how many people put 'We are an attractive couple' in a profile when they clearly are not. Of course I'm amazed that people would write they are attractive in their profile when they have pictures up in the first place, no need to describe your physical attributes when you have pictures.

You are right that no one would say anything bad though.

Pictures would help to know if it was in fact a self esteem issue or not. My wife for ages thought she was unattractive, its most likely how I got her in the first place

[Lovethenights]

Arvcpl, sounds like if your body isn't producing for you, then you're going to have to rely on your personality. Thank goodness we run with a crowd that's as desperate for affection and sex as we are so no one pays much attention to what is merely physical.

[likeitalot04]

Hi Arvcpl,

You are receiving a ton of responses to your post, so many in fact admit I have not read them all. To me, your answer is obvious, let me try to explain.

You state your wife is very "hot" and your "not so hot" and you feel that you can not stand up to the "competition" with the men and women your wife feels meet her standard. First let me point out to you that YOUR WIFE must think you are hot or she would not have selected YOU. You obviously meet HER standards, what makes you automatically assume you do not meet the standards of other "hot women?"

You say it is NOT a self esteem issue, but it seems to me that it is. Women are complex creatures and though they enjoy a good looking man as you enjoy a good looking woman it really takes more than that to get their juices flowing. It is my humble opinion that women are attracted to a bearing of self confidence projected from a man more than just about any other trait. Not to say that they are attracted to cocky men, but a quiet self confidence, a projection that "you are in control of your world", you are confident yet humble...all the traits of a natural leader.

I don't think anything turns a woman off more than seeing a meek, unsure man...it is in their genes to be attracted to confident men that project power and control. I think this is why women often pass up "nice guys" for the "rugged rebel."

My advice is just be yourself, show interest in the other woman and make it an interest in more than her obvious beauty, be a GOOD LISTENER, be at ease while showing your sense of humor. Make sure you project that is isn't "all about you" and do every thing you can to give confidence to the woman you are pursuing because even the most beautiful of women do not have the confidence in their bodies that you think they have. You just can not expect a woman to "believe in you" unless you "believe in yourself."

I think you will find a "quiet confidence" will over come what you lack in not being physically "hot."

[WonderWhat]

Something in this whole thread struck me as curious: there is no mention of you (arvcpl) and your wife talking things over, or what she says or feels about this whole thing.

That tells me she either isn't getting your vibes at being left out somehow, or you aren't letting her know about it. Assuming of course, that if she did know about it she'd participate in finding a solution.

When at a club, do you both size up prospective couples and approach them with small talk? When approaching them, you might be missing subtle signals from the female half that say you're interested. If so, maybe your wife needs to tell you, or give you playful hints. That happens to me all the time; I've always been very oblivious as to when a gal is making a pass at me.

As a rule, the women are the negotiators in the lifestyle. Does she intercede for you in the first unspoken and later explicit negotiations? Or does she just flirt at the guy and leave you with the other end of the negotiation? If she doesn't include you, then you're screwed, because a man initiating advances in the LS is almost always a no-no. If this is what's happening, you should talk with your wife to help you have fun as a team, or even re-evaluate if being in the LS is really a good thing for you as a couple.

[WildMiCouple]

I guess what I am looking for is some kind of nuts and bolts things that I can do short of cosmetic surgery that will make me more interesting to the female halves of couples so that my wife and I are on a little more level playing field.

I know exactly how you feel and can help you out. Just do what I do and have your wife not doll up when you go out to the clubs. Leave the makeup in the bag and have her wear school teacher outfits with high necklines. Note that was school teacher and not school girl This will definately help keep the Ken and Barbie's from mingling with you too much.

Good luck and glad I could help.

Brett

[arvcpl]

I know exactly how you feel and can help you out. Just do what I do and have your wife not doll up when you go out to the clubs. Leave the makeup in the bag and have her wear school teacher outfits with high necklines. Note that was school teacher and not school girl This will definately help keep the Ken and Barbie's from mingling with you too much.

Good luck and glad I could help.

Brett

She would rather piss on an electric fence than not get all dolled up to go out