Are single men really worthless?

[Spoomonkey]

I'll just Dito Paphian on this one...

However, I'll add this: Cheat - To violate rules deliberately, as in a game.

We are playing within the boundaries of the rules that we, as a couple, have agreed on. We are NOT cheating according to any definition of the word. It is not simply a matter of degrees...

Your lack of understanding on this simple word put the rest of your post in the context of "this guy just doesn't get it."

Spoomonkey

[cumhungrycouple]

Surely a divorced/seperated etc single male swinger is far more attractive as a single male to couples than a guy new or just been the single male?

He will be more senstive, understanding and relaxed swinging with a couple(s). We wouldnt go for "normal single guys" who had no or little experience. surely clubs should differentiate between those that have long time experience and new inexperienced single swingers!

and for single female swingers surely a guy that has fone it before is more suitable than a newbie???

its aharsh old world

[macissmart]

John - my first step in here - I agree with wqhat you saay - take my situation mid fifties, married for 29 years - she was never reallyu very excited qbout sex, seemed to enjoy it but was never really "hey, lets go do it kind of girl. A little adventurous but not real. I will say no cheating but maybe I just wasn't the best husband, now see things I could have done better, Kids say "Dad, best thing that happened you really deserve someone better. My thoughts were the best thing to do would be to get involved in and around the life style feeling somwwhere there is a gal who for various reasons is going to leave her husband, and/or sad to say people die. If I meet a gal through this venue we would have a much better approach and uinderstanding about sex and have a great start as a new couple. So I would like to go to a club and just get to know people but all this stigma of "Single Males" has me a little wary. Thanks,


John.[/QUOTE]

[JnCC]

My thoughts were the best thing to do would be to get involved in and around the life style feeling somwwhere there is a gal who for various reasons is going to leave her husband, and/or sad to say people die. If I meet a gal through this venue we would have a much better approach and uinderstanding about sex and have a great start as a new couple.

Greetings and welcome from a fellow single male. I understand how a divorce can give a man a number of opportunities to pursue things he never could in his marriage, but I think you're getting a little ahead of yourself (and greatly restricting your possibilites) in pursuing only women who have experience in the lifestyle. Most women who have done this, have done it only within the context of a committed relationship. In other words, they want to be in the relationship first...then they'll talk about swinging. Those few women who are looking for male swing partners are, well...they're so few and far between you're probably not going to find one anyway, so there's no use discussing them here.

Being somebody's "ticket" is NEVER a one-sided deal. Most women who are agreeable to being some guys ticket into this lifestyle do so in the expectation that the man will be their ticket out of some other lifestyle. How much bullshit are you willing to put up with, and how much expense are you willing to incur, just to have somebody to swing with?

[Spoomonkey]

My thoughts were the best thing to do would be to get involved in and around the life style feeling somwwhere there is a gal who for various reasons is going to leave her husband, and/or sad to say people die.

Dude - this makes you sound like a freaking vulture...

And it is EXACTLY the kind of "stigma" that some single males are trying to avoid. This is the kind of stuff that totally turns us off of most single men - and this is the kind of sick attitude that makes it tough for sincere couples to find good singles...

Spoomonkey

[hotblonde47]

Well I'm kind of late into this discussion ... I guess my first question would be why Flori_Daman (if thats right) said his mate had died .... and it seems she hadn't or am i too many wines down here LOL. Anyway hubby and I had a great first MFM experience and from all reports we were lucky. However he has since married and - well he's a hard act to follow. But ... one of our very first criteria with each other, was that anyone we involved in our "playtime" had to be fully aware of the risks. So by that we meant that if your spouse doesn't know about it they are taking risks both emotionally and physically that they are not even aware of. We have met many people online (mostly males) who have attempted to deceive us but it doesn't take long to see through it if you're aware. Only once did we actually play in a situation which was a married man with a girlfriend and as soon as they "fessed up" shortly afterwards it was "bye bye from us". This is not a moral judgement on anyone else, it is i guess some kind of ruling that helps us to feel a touch less hedonistic! If we're not hurting anyone else than its OK. Do we need that? Well yes I guess to some degree we do. But for the single males out there, and only for the really truly single males out there .... don't be too disheartened. As was said earlier, many couples just are not interested in MFM, its not necessarily personal or discriminatory. I am not Bi. and have been in many situations where I've had to gently push away the bi.fem. because its just not my thing.

[sereneiders]

Ok, I'll bring back the signature of an "old" post:

John (the celibate swinger).

Well... that's what define you as the "right" single swinger. Seriously.

Swinger couples (are supposed to) have a satisfying sex live inside their marriages. Looking at them as a unit, they'd be ok about being "swinging celibates", when they actually meet someone else for sex, it is just for fun, not because of a crave coming from an "enforced to celibate" (i.e., who doesn't find who to fuck with). This leads to an attitude most of them share.

Part of the prescreening problem is how to know tell if the others (singles or married) are "celibate swinger" or "enforced to celibate" (for couples, let say those who doesn't enjoy it with their spouses), because the later ones (and this is true even for couples) are the ones in a rush that could be risky for a couple, a risk going from the uncomfortability to the plain drama.

This prescreening is more easy with couples. Being two, those who crave and rush often end up exposing themselves (it is easy to hide it for just one person). With women, the prescreening would be even harder. Culturaly women are taguht to celibate, or at least know how to behave as if they were celibes and become very proficient on hidding the craving and rush thing... even to the point required to avoid the unconfortability or the drama most of the times, should that crave were there.

Males are toguht in the macho, competitive stuff, something requiring to expose the crave and even the rush fulfillment, as opposed to women, so we're not proficient enough to hide this when we have the crave: we may do it during the seduction game (with a gal, with a couple), but once succeded in that game, we're unable to hide the crave and for the other one (couple or even a gal) it became exposed.

So we, males, actually know how to pass trough such a prescreening proccess. If having the crave, we're not proficient to hide it afterwards... once the ball is rolling, and when too late for the other involved (single or couple).

This isn't an issue when singles meet each other. Let say, you meet a woman, you either know if she wants an uncommited relationship or a commited one. In the later case, such a commitment takes time, you have to be patient and spend time proving who you are in a longer prescreening proccess.

But for couples, they already have a commitment themselves to preserve, anyone else getting involved with them should at least know the value of a commitment, both the commitment they have and a commitment requred for third parties (singles or couples) that they won't challenge the couple commitment. Among couples you can suppose both ot them have the same problem to address, and they will colaborate with each other and enforce the rules, and that can be done fast enough as to get the fun they all look for.

When the couple meets the single, the problem would be how to ensure the understanding of the commitment the single have is enough for them to ensure they can preserve their own one, and to ensure the singe guy would fit to the rules.

So I believe the "swinging celibate" attitude, to be up to stick to the rules and pay attention to the effects the single actions may have in the couple commitments, even at the price of keep being "swinging celibate" if required, is the key point here. And how to find this trough a prescreening.

I know, I am breaking your rules... we don't seek for single guys, but actually we don't deny the chance. Just the prescreening proccess able to make us confident enough about a single guy seems to require an effort that insn't needed with couples, that doesn't worth the price... as we wouldn't be swinging at all if the effor were the same with couples either.

The problem I have here is, everithing that can be said to help us prescreen guys can be used by some guys to learn how to give us an answer.

And this isn't a matter of granting rights to singles to have a fair chance to be known. In fact, there are singles who have increasing chances, but those are regulars in the club we attend whose attitude is consistent as the time goes on, thus allowing us to a slower prescreening proccess. Such a request for granting rights is unfair to us: we cannot realy on such a prescreening and we have way more to loose than the single in the exchange.

Someone said in a post, as the thumb rule for cheaters: "never fuck with anyone who have less to loose than yourself". I believe this is true not only for cheaters, also for swingers. If we perceive a couple have less to loose than us, we trend to run away, but this is the perception we have with every single we knew.

Let's take macissmart previous comment:

"My thoughts were the best thing to do would be to get involved in and around the life style feeling somwwhere there is a gal who for various reasons is going to leave her husband".

This guy not only have less to loose than me, he also is hoping me to loose my wife, hoping for my marriage commitment to fall appart. I know he won't succeed, he have no chance, but this attitude may lead to a very anoying situation that has nothing to do with what we're looking for when swinging.

We beaten him because of his words. He may come here under a new nickname after learning that telling this is the fatest way to loose in his prescreening. How can you tell, then, how many other guys around are hidding the same sort of toughts while giving us his best smile for a prescreening?

For a lot of couples this is a risk we don't have proficiencies to deal with, and by risk I mean a very concrete threat of harm to our marriage. As I said before, if we were feeling so threatened by couples, we wouldn't be swinging at all, but the fact is, most couples doesn't threat us, they have to deal with the same threats, and the couples that can actually threat us are easily seen.

It isn't a matter of an "stigma", it's just about self preservation. And I hate to not know any way to tell appart the "right" singles from the "bad" ones, because I like the tought of an MFM... and even when two couples can engage into a MFM as well.