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Thread: Cheating...

  1. #46

    Default Re: Cheating...

    Ed here-- Over the years I've see a fair share of men and women cheat on their marriages. While, initially, the sex is fun, things never end well. This is because to have the sex, you have to lie, deceive and become the type of person you don't want to be. This results in further behavior and actions that diminish you and burden those around you. In short, in every case, the person said it wasn't worth it.

    With healthy swinging couples, the desire for sex is up front and no one is being lied to. In fact lack of communication and honesty is usually the only thing that causes problems and not the additional fun sex expressed within a healthy relationship.

    Susan has been completely open with me from the first nanosecond I asked her out. Her sexual expression is something I celebrate as opposed to be worried or burdened by. And, for me, sex with friends has been incredibly liberating. Yet, none of it would have been possible if there wasn't honesty and communication. If there wasn't, I could have never tried Swinging and never could say,"Watching Susan fuck is a rockin' experience ".

    ----------
    On the one night stand cheat versus long term cheat. I had a colleague who did something stupid while traveling on business and had a one nighter. He'd never done anything like that before and would never again. He should have just left it as a mistake and moved on. Instead, he needed to unburden himself and told his wife. What a jerk. She was fine without this information and was severely hurt. They got counseling and remain married 15 years after the event. But, there was a 'catch'. He always has to let her know where he is and what he's doing when she's not around. So, because he felt the need to tell her about one stupid night, he's chained to that mistake for life. His wife is also chained, she just doesn't realize it. So, from my perspective, a one night mistake should be left in the past or it easily stays with you a lifetime.
    Last edited by Edison Carter; 12-12-2007 at 01:42 PM.

  2. #47

    Default Re: Cheating...

    Ed, I think you are right in a way. As I said before, when younger my Dad was a notorious lady's man. They have now been married over 40 (yes, 40 lol) years. He hasn't cheated probably in over 20 years at least...and every time they get in a fight he is reminded of it. I guess you can forgive but you never forget.
    Merry Christmas and a Ho Ho Ho
    Shelly

  3. #48

    Default Re: Cheating...

    I understand that cheating can be something that leads to a relational catharsis. However, that does not make it a good thing - anymore than a person drinking himself out of a job and a family could be considered a good thing, even if he does bounce back. Wouldn't it have been better for the man who "hit rock bottom" to admit he has a drinking problem earlier? Get help sooner? Fix the issue before he reaches the point where he has no choice?
    Amen and Hallelujah!
    I'd rather go to hell for doing something I enjoyed than heaven wondering what it's like.

  4. #49

    Default Re: Cheating...

    Quote Originally Posted by willyoats View Post
    There seems to be some doubt about whether cheating (an affair without the SO's knowledge) can be beneficial. Clearly, it can be destructive: marriages break up and families are destroyed. However, it can also can be helpful, as in our case. Early in our marriage, we had a lousy sex life. I was inhibited and she was frustrated. She had an affair with a real romantic stud. She found out that her failure to reach orgasm was not my fault. She also found out that , except for sex, I had all of the qualities that she wanted in a life partner.

    Then when she told me about it, I was really turned on to her and was all over her all of the time. The shrink says it resolved the madonna-whore complex. Whatever the psychological underpinnings, which I still don't completely understand, it freed me to approach my wife with a new outlook on our sex life.

    So, between her not blaming me for her problems and me not having the hangups, we have had great sex ourselves and with others in the swinging community for most of the past 40 years.
    You know, y'all have really made me think. I have been thinking about this issue alot lately. We have a couple that are our friends. Due to whatever reason (she refuses to acknowledge that there is a problem) she will NOT have sex with her husband. Won't do it. There is always an excuse; she is tired or sick or on her period, or pms.......and I mean they have had sex like literally twice in the last 8 weeks. The hubby is a good man who has tried everything he can think of from taking her on a romantic getaway to Cabo to lingerie to this and that...they fortunately have the financial ability for him to really treat her well. She will not have sex. He is at his wit's end and honestly I have recommended that they get marital counseling. Now I'm not coming down on my sister...she is a teacher and I know she is busy and stressed and tired. They are a BEAUTIFUL couple both inside and out, and Jay and I are pulling for them. But he is at his wit's end. Sex in a marriage is not just physical, its the emotional connection. So I've been thinking about this thread. Normally yes, I would say cheating is WRONG WRONG WRONG. But what does a spouse do in this situation? He has talked to her until he is blue in the face; offered to go with her to the ob/gyn even. He loves her with all of his heart. But the more he tries to make love to her the more she rejects him and its like a knife in his heart. In this situation do you think that perhaps another woman would help him? I'm truly asking because I don't know. I would NEVER tell him this because in truth I'm not a marital counselor and simply don't have the qualifications to meddle in such things as a marriage like that. But damn, I don't know that I would blame Jay for having an affair in a case like that. I don't know, I've just been thinking about them and this thread alot.
    Merry Christmas and a Ho Ho Ho
    Shelly

  5. #50

    Default Re: Cheating...

    Willyoats - There are exceptions to almost every rule. I believe your's is one of them and one men like to read on the story board - some to fantasize, some to justify. I think think it's great for you

    Shelly,

    I'm not a marital counselor and simply don't have the qualifications to meddle in such things as a marriage either, but, I don't think cheating is his answer unless he wants to ruin his marriage. I think your sister would never understand the reasons and would be devastated to the point she would try to ruin his life whether or they stayed married.

    You know your sister better than us, so you would be a better judge of her reaction if she ever found out, but, usually this isn't taken as a wake up call, but rather a cheating, deceitful spouse, that honestly they can't see any reason why he (or she) would cheat on them.

    But, I do feel sorry for him. I don't have a solution, just a word of caution to the one you were thinking. I hate the thought of counseling myself (seems most counselors are as messed up as their clients) but will she even consider that?

  6. #51

    Default Re: Cheating...

    To be honest they are our friends but not what I would call "good" friends. Well, I'm better friends with him than I am with her. Shes my girl, not my actual sister...my "sista" lol. I'm just an ear. You know, he is vulnerable and so I just kind of listen. I think they need counseling. Yeah, I just am not qualified to tell him "you should do this or that"....I told him the only thing I do know is they need to suspend all swinging and seek marital counseling. I am just really pulling for them. You are right, she would not see the reasoning behind an affair.
    Merry Christmas and a Ho Ho Ho
    Shelly

  7. #52

    Default Re: Cheating...

    Susan here-- I know the history on older friends of ours with the same problem. It was sex perhaps once a month,once no sex for nearly a year. No acknowledgement of a problem. And, just like your friends, he loved her deeply. Ultimately, she was diagnosed with depression. She is treated, but anti-depressants reduce desire even further. He did talk to her doctor and asked what usually happens and the doctor explained that most couples divorce. His answer," Well, I've never been one to follow the crowd". He thought about his family first and rarely has complained except to say that,"I've swam oceans of solitude for her". He's considered everything from divorce, to elite call girls, to having a friend with benefits. Yet, never has done anything. Maybe he's noble, maybe he's stupid, but she's lucky to have such a 'stand up' guy.

  8. #53

    Default Re: Cheating...

    Quote Originally Posted by Edison Carter View Post
    Susan here-- I know the history on older friends of ours with the same problem. It was sex perhaps once a month,once no sex for nearly a year. No acknowledgement of a problem. And, just like your friends, he loved her deeply. Ultimately, she was diagnosed with depression. She is treated, but anti-depressants reduce desire even further. He did talk to her doctor and asked what usually happens and the doctor explained that most couples divorce. His answer," Well, I've never been one to follow the crowd". He thought about his family first and rarely has complained except to say that,"I've swam oceans of solitude for her". He's considered everything from divorce, to elite call girls, to having a friend with benefits. Yet, never has done anything. Maybe he's noble, maybe he's stupid, but she's lucky to have such a 'stand up' guy.
    omg, thats just so sad Susan. I only hope that things turn out for them.
    Merry Christmas and a Ho Ho Ho
    Shelly

  9. #54

    Default Re: Cheating...

    Quote Originally Posted by Edison Carter View Post
    Susan here-- I know the history on older friends of ours with the same problem. It was sex perhaps once a month,once no sex for nearly a year. No acknowledgement of a problem. And, just like your friends, he loved her deeply. Ultimately, she was diagnosed with depression. She is treated, but anti-depressants reduce desire even further. He did talk to her doctor and asked what usually happens and the doctor explained that most couples divorce. His answer," Well, I've never been one to follow the crowd". He thought about his family first and rarely has complained except to say that,"I've swam oceans of solitude for her". He's considered everything from divorce, to elite call girls, to having a friend with benefits. Yet, never has done anything. Maybe he's noble, maybe he's stupid, but she's lucky to have such a 'stand up' guy.
    has he talked to his wife honestly about how he feels about the lack of sex?

    has the alternative/ swinging lifestyle, been discussed between them?

  10. #55

    Default Re: Cheating...

    They've talked more than for the Treaty of Nuremburg.

  11. #56

    Default Re: Cheating...

    Quote Originally Posted by Edison Carter View Post
    Treaty of Nuremburg.
    ????

    ok, what Treaty?

    and on topic... NO NO NEVER... why cheat with a wonderful woman as a partner...

  12. #57

    Default Re: Cheating...

    Quote Originally Posted by JP51 View Post
    ????

    ok, what Treaty?

    and on topic... NO NO NEVER... why cheat with a wonderful woman as a partner...

    What I believe Ed is trying to say there is that the couple he was talking about has talked about their situation ad nauseum.

    As to your other question, I agree. My hubby is so damn lucky to have me.

    And I'm very lucky to have him, too.
    I'd rather go to hell for doing something I enjoyed than heaven wondering what it's like.

  13. #58

    Default Re: Cheating...

    Quote Originally Posted by Edison Carter View Post
    They've talked more than for the Treaty of Nuremburg.
    this is a discussion about cheating.

    i don't want to change the concept here. but what came to mind for me was, someone being FORCED in to going somewhere els. Teresa mentioned that she could understand a time why, some one went that direction. spoomonkey mentioned in relation to the drunk, fixing things before family and relationship was lost. then your situation about the man that had endured so much, but couldn't or wouldn't cross the line. and by the way, his dilemma and hardships are more than (Nobel) in my opinion.

    but its been our observations that sometimes the cheater is, FORCED into what ever alternatives they could find. i too have had conversations with other men that have testified that they have gone through long durations of no sex. like you said the guy had gone a year. its not something i could ever say i could understand or do. fortunately and thankfully, iv never had to. witch brings me to a discussion earlier between Mrs.fun and i.

    this is something i saw sometimes while i was researching the swinging lifestyle. and really stuck out to me. when couples were searching for male companionship for the wife. there were times that the male couldn't for whatever medical reasons have sex, many different reasons that are really tough for long term or commited loving couples. i have given this serious thought, WHAT IF IT HAPPENED TO ME?

    we have talked about this and i wouldn't want my wife to do without sex for what ever reasons that might come my way, physically or mentally. i can accept something like this. something that i cant change. something maybe i couldn't fix but would rather search for alternatives. to me my dysfunction would lead to FORCING her to get sex elsewhere.

    i asked my wife about this and she says it would be hard, something that would be personal. meaning it would crush her so much to not be able to satisfy me, if the situation were reversed.for what ever reasons might prevent her from having sexual desires. like you say the woman is suffering from depression and maybe more.then complicated by medications. but isn't there a sense of her Forcing her husband to think of his alternatives?

    i really was shocked that the doctor suggested divorce as an alternative. i mean are we (swingers)?? the only people that see things in relationships that have good positive alternatives?

    i wounder sometimes when marriage counselors come across failing sexual problems in these situations, why don't they understand or offer the lifestyle as an alternative?

    just my thoughts from trying to see some posts here and having a positive attitude about such a devastating hard to understand thread.

    cheating...

  14. #59

    Default Re: Cheating...

    Sex in a marriage is not just physical, its the emotional connection.
    Shelly, you answered your own question with the above statement.

    People can go outside marriage for just sex but they still miss the emotional connection.

    I think many 'normal' cheaters (affairs, not escorts), develop some emotional connection as well as the sex.

    Then that hurts a marriage further cuz the emotional connection is further strained.
    Evel Knievel died of natural causes.

  15. #60

    Default Re: Cheating...

    Quote Originally Posted by tribbles View Post
    Shelly, you answered your own question with the above statement.

    People can go outside marriage for just sex but they still miss the emotional connection.

    I think many 'normal' cheaters (affairs, not escorts), develop some emotional connection as well as the sex.

    Then that hurts a marriage further cuz the emotional connection is further strained.
    You are absolutely right, but I think that usually one gets connected more than the other. My friend had a 14 month long affair with a man; she was in love with him and foolishly believed that he was going to leave his wife. Well of course, when the ultimatum inevitably came he was gone. He didn't even blink an eye while she was absolutely destroyed.
    Merry Christmas and a Ho Ho Ho
    Shelly

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