What are the first few things that come to your mind when a guy has never had a gf?

[mystic]

What are the first few things that come to your mind when a guy has never had a girlfriend? This question is for women only. I guess I'm just interested in what goes on inside women's heads so I can make it apparant (through life-style changes or telling stories) that I'm not that way. I guess that way if I state that I've never had a girlfriend up until this point (25 years old), it'll seem like a choice and not because I'm not attractive, unlovable, creepy or some other such thing.

I'm finding it difficult to socialize because people like asking personal questions. I'm a truthful guy, so usually I'll either give a little bit of info but not all that much, or change the topic a tactful way. But honestly, I don't want to come off as hiding something and admitting that I've never had a girlfriend is, well, not going to trigger any kind of pre-selection switch inside of the woman I'm talking to.

I found recently that it helps to lie. I've recently "added in" some false information about a life I never had with women, and I can tell it helped make the experience more positive for me. It was pretty non-arrogant as if I was talking naturally. I did it as an experiment. Like I'd tell an interesting story that happened (or may never happened) that included a girlfriend as one of the characters, or just saying she was present. Yeah, it's untruthful, but I'm getting better reactions.

I'm not sure how I feel about it though. After I reflected on it for a few days, I considered that I may as well pretend to have a life that I want until I actually have the life want. That seems to be healthier than being judged/victimized about my past, my social anxiety and my extreme introverted nature. I mean, you can basically say I lived a really unhealthy life up to my current age.

It's hard to forgot all of that and it seems that people want to know. I know they aren't probing. It's just that they are curious, and they want to trust me more. I get it. I guess I just don't want to say all the negative things that happened to me or the way my life was. Or talk about the sense of loss, the trapped feelings and lack of control over my life, the really bad direction my life was heading in right from the family I was born into, or extreme sorrow and guilt I felt on a day to day basis. Nobody wants to hear this shit and I certainly don't want to talk about and relive it.

Anyway, so what goes on inside your heads when you find information like this out? Honestly.

And I guess as an aside, what do you think of a person who really doesn't want to talk about their past or has nothing really positive to say about it? I mean, having no way to connect and share experiences on any of those levels.

Thanks

[Vespertine]

25 is still young, so I don't think most people would find it too odd that you haven't had a girlfriend yet.

A lot of young men prefer to play the field and date several women or leave their romantic involvements to only one night stands.

Age is in your favor. It would be a whole different story if you were 45 and still living with your mother.

I most definitely would NOT make up a "girlfriend". One lie leads to another and you will get caught. People do not care about your past as much as you do. People will judge you on who you are "now"....and nobody likes a liar. Everyone's had a bum card dealt to them in life and we all have skeletons in our closet.

Have you thought about seeing a therapist to help you over come your social anxiety?

[sexyshelby]

Honestly, the first things that come to mind are:
Is he gay?
Is he really THAT busy that he doesn't have time for a girl?

I agree, don't lie about it. There's nothing wrong with being 25 and never having a girlfriend. Just be honest about your situation. If you don't like to talk about the past, just tell people that. We all have things from the past that we dont like to talk about, when someone brings it up, I just politely say that I'd rather not talk about that.

I agree that some therapy might help you to deal with your anxiety as well the issues from your past.

~SS

[Alura]

I wouldn't worry about it, Mystic. Our sixteen-year-old gets hassled all the time because he hasn't had a girlfriend or even his first date yet. Pay no attention to those who don't pay your bills. Don't lie, either.

Alura

[Alura]

You might just try being friendly with single women. Don't come across as a guy who is desperately looking for a relationship. "Friends first" is a good philosophy in building a strong relationship.

Mr. Alura

[JnCC]

Well, I'm not a woman, "but I stayed in one last night" so I guess that makes me qualified to speak authoritatively on the subject.

I think that a person can be attractive on the outside, but suffer from a complete lack of social and/or interpersonal skills. Some people will eventually acquire those skills through practice. Others are destined to live very solitary lives.

You're 25 years old...the same age as my oldest daughter. In terms of expected life-span, you're at the "top of the third," and you haven't put a runner on base yet. In fact, from the sound of things, you haven't even made contact with the ball. That would concern me, as would the fact that you're having to invent a back-story to account for your lack of a social life up to this point.

Whatever you're doing, dude, it ain't working. It's time to make some changes. Exactly what those changes should be, I'm in no position to answer.

[mystic]

I am making changes. From the people that do know, they say I'm a very different person already. It just takes a lot of time to build changes into your character permanently, and some things seem very much impossible to do no matter how many times I try to do them (being energetic at clubs, just being around lots of people for long periods of time, being overly social, smiling and being bubbly, having lots to of nonsense conversation to talk about, etc.)

But I'm much more assertive than before, I make eye contact a lot better, I take more social risks when I feel up to it, my mood is much overall better than before, I take excellent care of myself and I'm successful in other aspects of life (CEO of a profitably corporation I built, being an author, etc.).

I'm slowly working through my social anxiety. I've had some successful one-on-one conversations with strangers on the bus or at the mall. Not many, but a few. I've had more than a few that really didn't work out very well either. I know that doesn't sound like much to you guys, but I'm not that nervous anymore, which is a huge step and this stuff is hard for me.

I do find that even though I'm not that anxious, I still don't have a lot to say and I find the interaction is better if the other person takes the lead. If they don't, well, it usually ends pretty bad. I try to take the lead, but I think it's a combination of my lack of experience, skill and just my extremely introverted nature that makes it awkward for me.

I read a book that someone recommended to me on these forums called the Introvert Advantage this week and it pegs me extremely well. It gives some pretty strong evidence that that my brain is wired differently and I'm going to have to deal with a lot of these things my entire life, slowly getting better over the years. Basically I'm not going to be doing much trill-seeking and partying in my life, which I think is what most people find attractive.

The book was a fascinating help, but it was somewhat disturbing in that lots of the things I wanted to fix (mainly getting lots more extroverted qualities) seem like it's not going to happen. I guess I just have to work with what I've got.

[mystic]

You might just try being friendly with single women. Don't come across as a guy who is desperately looking for a relationship. "Friends first" is a good philosophy in building a strong relationship.

Mr. Alura

Oh I don't. You see, I've actually read a lot about dating and women. I've read so much stuff that I probably "get it" better than most people do at an intellectual level. Just that when it comes to actually doing it, it's still pretty difficult because I tend to tense up, get bad feelings in my stomach and my mind turns blank. I write lines and routines on a cheat sheet and look at it a lot to help me out

I'm not sure the friends first philosophy is that great though. I don't agree with it. I think that just shoves you in a best friend kind of a category. I think you have to make it known your interested in the girl. Yes, not in the beginning. I wouldn't go up to a girl and say, "Wow, you're beautiful" or "you have nice shoes" (those are actually bad thing to do). But I think you have to show value to her in the form of your independance, interesting personality, maturity, high character, humour, leadership ability, pre-selection by other women, high social status and number of other things that women find attractive.

[BradAndJanet]

What's wrong with saying, "Those are nice shoes"? I love shoes and the women I know spend considerable time picking them out. I'd think they'd love the complement on their good taste.

Have you considered seeing a therapist? Lots of people do. They can probably assist you in the self-improvment journey you've already started. I'm not real big on pharmacological solutions, but taking one of the SSRI class of drugs for a while might help you overcome some of your fears. Once you gain confidence you probably won't need them and your therapist can wean you off of them.

Just a thought and I wish you the best.

-B

[Vespertine]

I wouldn't go up to a girl and say, "Wow, you're beautiful" or "you have nice shoes" (those are actually bad thing to do). But I think you have to show value to her in the form of your independance, interesting personality, maturity, high character, humour, leadership ability, pre-selection by other women, high social status and number of other things that women find attractive.

Just so you know, "You're beautiful" is a good start...

[Vespertine]

What's wrong with saying, "Those are nice shoes"? I love shoes and the women I know spend considerable time picking them out. I'd think they'd love the complement on their good taste.

B

Dito

Shoes are very important to us. Men who know a good pair of shoes when they see them are important to us as well.

[mystic]

I wouldn't worry about it, Mystic. Our sixteen-year-old gets hassled all the time because he hasn't had a girlfriend or even his first date yet. Pay no attention to those who don't pay your bills. Don't lie, either.

Alura

I'm not so worried about it. But I never really dated much either. I don't think I've ever been on a date, and I honestly haven't been around a lot of women, although I'm trying now. I guess it just seems that at 25 years old, I should have done a lot of this but didn't. I have this really strong impression that people expect it too. I look back, and I can understand why I didn't.

In high school, this would have been an impossibility - even if I had the courage to approach girls, or even the just accept the ones that were interested in me (it did happen a few times), I would have never been able to hold the relationship anyway, living with an abusive famiy, living in a highly negative environment and having no ability to drive (being legally blind).

In university I found myself not knowing what to do. It was kind of too late. My dad died, so that was a great relief, but honestly, now that I had freedom to make my own choices and was considered to be an adult, I didn't know what to do with it. I was pretty overwhelmed. Everyone just seemed so much more experienced and different than I was. And I was kind of trapped. I was depressed. And I didn't have any options on how to fix my life. It's as if I thought I was stuck and couldn't change anything and nobody bothered to even tell me that the way I was living life was unhealthy or the way I was dealing with life could change. Of course, I had my school to keep my mind busy, so I buried myself in the books and played a lot of video games and read a lot to escape.

But even now I find things pretty exhausting. I mean, I don't have a social circle to meet people, so any friends or women that I hope to meet in the future will have to be complete strangers off the street, in the mall, on the bus, or whatever.

I try clubs and stuff, but I feel so uncomfortable in those places. I tend to zone out, get really anxious, feel compelled to leave, or just avoid them altogether. And they are so loud and play music that gives me a lot of negative feelings. It's hard to talk to anyone in there. And when I go to lean in to hear what people are saying, I get the vibe that I'm not supposed to do that or that I'm indicating too much interesting or something. Of course to me, it's just that I can hear them. But whatever. It seems like they have all of these social rules and things and I don't seem to understand them.

It's not really a big deal that I shouldn't lie. I just don't really enjoy the feelings I get by avoiding my past or people asking about it. I guess the only healthy way to get around it is to politely say you don't want to talk about it then... I guess that'll have to do then. Thank you.

[mystic]

What's wrong with saying, "Those are nice shoes"? I love shoes and the women I know spend considerable time picking them out. I'd think they'd love the complement on their good taste.

Have you considered seeing a therapist? Lots of people do. They can probably assist you in the self-improvment journey you've already started. I'm not real big on pharmacological solutions, but taking one of the SSRI class of drugs for a while might help you overcome some of your fears. Once you gain confidence you probably won't need them and your therapist can wean you off of them.

Just a thought and I wish you the best.

-B

Okay, here's the thing. When a high status guy says a woman is beautiful, it doesn't matter what you said because your a high status guy. But when a low status, low confidence guy says it, guess what? You get thrown out pretty fast. You get pegged as the other 700 lovable losers that had approached her in her entire life. Honestly, I get the impression women don't really give a shit who I am until I demonstrate some kind of value to them. Sure they are nice about it (well most of them anyway), but the semantics are what they are.

I find that saying something unexpected and interesting tends to open the conversation better. It has yet to get me a girlfriend or have a one night stand, but I get more positive feedback and conversations tend to last longer. I build some more self-esteem because I can tell they are working to my benefit more. I guess I don't like being rejected, and anything to reduce the odds of being rejected helps me out.

Honestly, the women I should be with (like my genetic compliment) should probably be a lot like me. But they aren't exactly in public approaching strangers like I do, trying to build social skills. LOL. They're probably playing video games or reading or watching star trek.

[mystic]

Honestly, the first things that come to mind are:
Is he gay?
Is he really THAT busy that he doesn't have time for a girl?

I agree, don't lie about it. There's nothing wrong with being 25 and never having a girlfriend. Just be honest about your situation. If you don't like to talk about the past, just tell people that. We all have things from the past that we dont like to talk about, when someone brings it up, I just politely say that I'd rather not talk about that.

I agree that some therapy might help you to deal with your anxiety as well the issues from your past.

~SS

Okay, that sounds like good advice. Thanks.

It's hard to believe "there is nothing wrong it" when I certainly don't feel fantastic about it. The thing is, half the reasons are that haven't lived my life much yet, and the other half are skill/self-esteem related. I just hope the feeling goes away when things start moving better for me, because it's a pretty strong negative feeling and I try not think on it much.

[Alura]

Thanks for the additional input, Mystic. It makes your situation a lot clearer.

I think you need Toastmasters International. They are a civic club dedicated to improving one's communication skills, improving self-confidence, etc. Here's a link to their website: http://www.toastmasters.org/ On the left, near the top of the first page, you'll find "Find a Club." I didn't know your zip code so I didn't look to see if there's one in Windsor.

Forget the clubs and bars. You don't seem to enjoy them at all and if you meet a woman there, you'll probably find that she does like them. Such a difference of opinion, right at the start, would not bode well for a relationship. She may also have an alcohol problem you don't need to deal with.

Now, if you find a woman at Toastmasters, chances are she's there for the same reason you are and will understand you quite well.

There is also a professional training course called The Dale Carnegie Course. (Dale Carnegie wrote How to Win Friends and Influence People.) They teach the same things. I took the course when I was in my twenties and found it helped a lot. I think it's more expensive than Toastmasters, but you'll probably get to where you want to be a lot faster.

Keep us posted!

Mr. Alura