Are we too shy to swing?

[Jeepgurly]

Sometimes I wonder if this lifestyle suits us. I am not an exhibitionist, i'm shy, modest, self concious and pretty conservative as far as flirting or initiating anything goes. Whats worse is that I am slightly oblivious to overtures towards me and when I do notice them I don't know how to respond/react even when I am interested.

My husband and I have been together since 9th grade, 14 awesome years so far. We were eachothers first and up until a foursome we had with a close couple we knew a few years ago we were eachothers only. In fact he still has never been with anyone but me and I have just been with him and that 1 couple still. He wasn't at all attracted to the female in the couple we were with. She is my opposite and I think it was too far a departure for him. In any event, we dealt with that fine. We are very solid and we enjoyed the experiences we had with them as 3-somes without her and as 4-somes so we knew we wanted to do it again one day with another couple after they moved and we couldn't get together anymore. The trouble is finding a couple that will evolve naturally into more. Seems like everyone is on fast forward. Not only that but I seem to be judging approaches from a vanilla standpoint. I know that if we could meet a couple we would enjoy ourselves but I am so put off by some of the approaches we receive. I hate crassness, closeup body part pictures, being touched without any provocation from me or people that don't seem to be selective. That to me is the biggest turn-off. I will walk into a room and automatically be attracted to a few people maybe 2 or 3 and they will be the only ones I express interest in, I will certainly be friendly if approached by other people but I am not interested. People that move around quickly, and with a lot of people make me lose interest. I guess I need to feel special and courted and I don't feel that way if i'm one of many I guess. I like to be pursued, in someways i'm very old fashioned and prudish. I don't know how to flirt and feel akward trying, it comes so unnaturally for me. Parties where people are having sex all over the place turn me off. I prefer get togethers in normal clubs where people meet, dance and take it from there - elsewhere. I also don't like getting together with a couple we haven't met to meet over dinner or drinks, it feels contrived and pressured with the prospect of sex looming over me. What if we don't click and we've wasted a perfectly rare oppurtunity to use a babysitter meeting with a couple I frankly have no intention of sleeping with that night and then we may not even click. I like the no pressure atmosphere of a regular club gathering where we can get lost if theres no chemistry and not waste the night.

Just this past weekend we went to a club where a swingers group was meeting and we had a really nice time. And although we did dance all night - we stuck with only eachother. He's as shy as me, extremely picky, and never makes any type of move on anyone and in fact doesn't really express interest in anyone unless I ask him. He's not a dead fish, he talks when people approach us and is very friendly and laid back but he just doesn't initiate things. We never talk about sex with any couples, I figure if theres chemistry it'll happen and then we can set groundrules. Nothing brings me back to earth faster then the other couple bringing up sex as if they assume thats where we're headedhow presumptious of them I think. I on the other hand make these super lame attempts at flirtation that are so veiled they come off as harmelss vanilla compliments like "Nice boots".
Anyways back to the club. As soon as we got there I picked out 2 women and a couple I was attracted to and spent the night trying to position ourselves in situations where we might have the opportunity to talk. I ended up approaching the couple and making small talk, complimenting one of the womens boots and making eyes at the last lady. All 3 were interested but I don't know how to progress and stay in my comfort zone and I fear that we just don't move quickly enough to not piss off people.

The lady that I was making eyes at, kept trying to maneuver herself over to me and even held her hand out to me while she danced but my husband said I just turned my back on her and kept on dancing. I didn't notice I guess. She also grabbed my butt several times while we danced close by but I didn't acknowledge that I had felt anything, I didn't know what to do about it. How do you respond to a stranger grabbing your ass when you haven't even spoken? She was also in a heavy grindfest with 3 people including her husband (who was not attractive to me at all) who was fingering her right there on the dance floor of this vanilla club. Her husband was mostly the reason I wasn't receptive to her advances, the last thing I wanted to do was be saddled with a guy I wasn't attracted to just because she was hot.

I know this whole post is disjointed but is this whole thing just not for us? I feel defeated and like we'll never be able to experience this type of thing again because of our hang ups but I don't know if I can be the type of girl that just wants to go out and have sex as quickly as possible. I know couples aren't interested in courting us and I guess I don't blame them but I would like to feel like we were selected as opposed to one of many.

So what do you all think, is this just not for us?

Jeepgurly


Our SLS profile

[WesternSwing]

From what I've read I wouldn't say this lifestyle isn't for you, you might just be approaching it wrong for you. It doesn't seem that jealousy is a problem and that is a big bonus. I just think that the way you are going at getting into the lifestyle is the wrong method for you. Meaning, clubs. Clubs can be pretty daunting being as shy as you say you are. Maybe you should try the dating thing with couples one-on-one (well, two-on-two ) This will give you a chance to meet just one couple without the distractions of being hit on by several others. You can talk and get to know each other without the pressure.

Mr. WS

[MrsVan]

Jeepgurly,

I wouldn't think that this lifestyle is not meant for you. I was similar to you when I first got into the lifestyle (and for those of you who have met me are probably wondering how is this so :rollseyes ) but I was not a girl who flirted and it did not come easy for me. I loved sex but only with my husband and watching porn or seeing couples in a vanilla setting do things to each other in public turned me off also. I was one who would not get out on the dance floor because I did not feel comfortable with myself to go out and have every one watch me.

But then it happened....MrVan and I got into the lifestyle and it has opened me up more than anyone can imagine. Even our vanilla friends ask what has happened that made me so open and so talkative. I think once you find that couple to help you feel comfortable and help you to open up, then you will feel more at ease with the things that go on in the lifestyle. When I go out to a club now (vanilla or swingers) I will go out on the dance floor, flirt with those I find attractive and I will even drag the guys out to the dance floor (which again I NEVER did in my entire life till the lifestyle).

I think with the lifestyle, you have to take it slow and you have to go at the pace that makes you feel comfortable. Not everyone moves at the fast pace as you have seen. But when we find a couple we click with at a club, most definetly we will allow ourselves to have some fun and go with the flow of things. If it leads to going somewhere else after,then that is great. But there are times were MrVan and I do not go that fast.

As for the couple that the lady kept grabbing your butt, although you may not have had an interest in the husband but most definetly her; I think you did the right thing by not wanting to "take one for the team" just to be with her. When I look at a couple, I first look at the guy cause that is my main concern is the attraction there. If there is no attraction then we move on. Now if the guy is one that I find attractive and he has a wife that I find attractive also then to me that is just an added bonus. facelick

I wouldn't get too discouraged but I think that in order for you both to have more fun with the lifestyle, you may need to loosen up and let your hair down. The lifestyle is suppose to be fun. When you finally open up like I did the lifestyle will be a great experience for you. When I first got into the lifestyle I wasn't sure if I would have any fun because I was a very shy person, but now...Watch out!!

MrsVan

[Dynamar]

First, let me say that my comments are not meant to be perjorative in any way... just an observation on what you've already said, as well as a comparison with a couple I met once who seemed similar to the way you describe yourselves...

I met a couple at a house party once (about 50 people were there)... they were both attractive, seemed very well grounded and into each other, but they spent most of the time hanging out with each other. They would speak when spoken to (my friend and I conversed with them early in the evening, before lots of people got there), and were very kind, but never really initiated communcation with anyone, especially after the party got good and going.

Very late in the evening, the girlfriend who was with me at the party said... "You know that couple we talked to briefly early on?... they really haven't talked to many people... I wonder what their story is?" So, we proceeded to sit down with them and just get to know them at little.

Turns out, they were both very shy, very selective about their partners, and previously had a close couple they enjoyed many experiences with, but couldn't anymore. In fact, this party was their first foray back into swinging since one half of their couple friends had died.

Now... you situations certainly aren't exactly the same, but it sounds like the vibes that you were throwing off to others are. My perception of the couple at the party was that they were pretty aloof and kinda stuck up. Turns out, that wasn't the case at all. Perhaps that's the impression you're giving people though?, and that definitely can limit your possibilities.

I agree with MrsVan though that some effort might be made on your parts to loosen up a little, if continuing is something you want to do. And like WesternSwing, I think maybe clubs is just a little too far, too fast, and you might be more comfortable sticking to "dating" via online sites.

Do wish you all the best with whatever you decide to do.

[ShellyM]

Hello, I agree with my friends in that you should not give up on the lifestyle. You actually sound alot like me. I have issues that prevent me from opening up alot, and sometimes people will see my shyness and take it as being rude. When I'm not at all, I just tend to sometimes put up walls to protect myself because of experiences in my past. AND I am notoriously picky. I will tell you what Jay told me when I became very frustrated. It is not a race, and you are not in a competition with anyone. This is supposed to be fun, and not stressful. You need to just slow down, and have fun. So what if you go to the swingers club and just dance with each other! Did you have fun? Did you relax and enjoy your evening? Then great! Thats what it is supposed to be about. I tend to be extremely goal oriented, I guess its the managerial aspect of my personality. I set certain goals in my mind, and if I don't "meet" those goals I get frustrated and lose my patience. I think you need to just relax a bit, and don't put pressure on yourself. Just chill out. The right couple will come along. And in the meantime, you love each other, and just have fun.

[Mrs.PaganLovers]

Jeep, I pretty much agree with everyone on this thread. When we attended our first swing club (and it was a suprise anniversary present to hubby) I was scared to death. I was afraid everyone had the expectation of sex, a free for all, that is not me. The owner of the club introduced us to another couple that she felt we had things in common with and we sat and talked. Found out they are pretty much like us, in fact I think the world of them.

I go with the idea of having a good time, dancing and hanging out with my beautiful husband. I am selective and actually over 10 years have had only a few experiences.

It sounds like the lifestyle fits you well, you just aren't into crass people, that can think of nothing but another notch on the bedpost. Take your time, and have fun. Don't put expectations on yourself and stress out. You will know it when you meet the right people.

And as Mrs. Van said, look at how it has changed her shyness

Blessings
Mrs. PaganLovers

[rpu3]

Jeepgurly:

Your first paragraph is me in a nutshell. In fact, a lot of your post reflects our outlook and approach. And we do manage to swing.

And I'd have to ditto a lot of the other posters' advice, as well.

I do think that engaging in this lifestyle has caused me to be a bit more outgoing, or try a different approach to meeting people, and the more I try, the more I find what works for me, and what will work for us. We have nothing to prove, no to-do lists, so we have no issues with taking it slowly and being as selective as it suits us - we are just here to have fun - and the minute it isn't fun, we are done.

Thus, I have not ruled the lifestyle out for myself - I just will only engage in it in a manner that makes sense for myself and my spouse. I don't think you should rule yourself out of the lifestyle - you are allowed to do what makes sense for you and your partner. You owe nothing to no one else.

Take care and above all - try to have fun!

Rebecca

[Tybee Swing]

Hi Jeepgurly,

There are so many ways to do this Lifestyle. It sounds like the party/club scene is not for you. Any time you're at an on-premise sort of event, and even many off-premise socials (often connected to a motel), that tends to move much more quickly than the "let's have dinner and get to know each other" approach. People are usually at the clubs to party, and many are open to having sex that night. By the way, I don't think that makes them crass or crude, or bed-notchers - that's just not your style.

I see you have a link to your SLS profile, but we're not members there so I can't see it. My main suggestion would be to stick to the adult sites and meet people one-on-one, and "date" them. Does your profile clearly state your preferences, like you told us here in this post? Do you explain that you want to be friends and take time before anything sexual happens? Does your profile say that you don't want to be one of many, and you want to feel special? I think that you'll find the pace you want much more easily with likeminded people, if you're very clear about that.

Originally Posted by Jeepgurly

I guess I need to feel special and courted and I don't feel that way if i'm one of many I guess. I like to be pursued, in someways i'm very old fashioned and prudish. I don't know how to flirt and feel akward trying, it comes so unnaturally for me.

It sounds like you want the other couple to take the lead, as if you're the woman and "they" are the man, pursuing you in an old-fashioned way, like in a romance novel. I understand this; I find this a lot among other women in the Lifestyle. You want them to take the lead, but not in a pushy way, nor with sexual innuendo or overtones, rather in a courting way, to "win" you. I mean no offense at all by this, but this isn't swinging, it's dating. It's perhaps even poly, or close. You want to be special, and you don't want to feel like you're "one of many". This is more the mentality of single women who are looking to seriously date a man - does that make sense? They want to be special to him. They want him making a lot of effort and proving himself and his worthiness. This is what you appear to be looking for in another couple.

It's not unusual, it's just not swinging, in my humble opinion. It's couple-dating. There are others like you looking for the same thing, though. I believe you can find this through profiles much more readily than you'll find this in clubs. However, if you find a couple who want the same thing, realize that they want to be pursued, too. So if you don't know how to flirt or pick up vibes, or communicate back to them in some clear way "I want you", they might get frustrated. They want to be pursued, also. Very few people are going to want to do all the "work" to win your favors over a long period of time. You'll need to meet them halfway.

Originally Posted by Jeepgurly

I know this whole post is disjointed but is this whole thing just not for us? I feel defeated and like we'll never be able to experience this type of thing again because of our hang ups but I don't know if I can be the type of girl that just wants to go out and have sex as quickly as possible. I know couples aren't interested in courting us and I guess I don't blame them but I would like to feel like we were selected as opposed to one of many.

So what do you all think, is this just not for us?

I just have this feeling you'd be a lot more comfortable in an exclusive relationship with a couple, or at least semi-exclusive. You don't want to be one of many. Swinging couples aren't committed to anybody but each other and are free to mix with and have sex with as many other couples as they like. They may meet somebody new and exciting on any given weekend and are free to explore that. But you want to be more "special" than that. Have you considered polyamory, or something in the middle between swinging and poly? That might be more for you.

Best wishes and I hope you find what you are looking for.

[ShellyM]

Tybee, you made some outstanding points in your post, many that got me to thinking myself actually. I feel in a lot of ways like the original poster does, that I don't want to be a notch on a bedpost. Of course, there is no commitment, and our play partners have a man they do 3somes with as well...and if Jay and I find someone particularly interesting they understand that this is fine. But yes, you made some wonderful points.

[Additude]

I would agree with the others. This is not for you.

If you go to a swingers club social event and think; "Nothing brings me back to earth faster then the other couple bringing up sex as if they assume thats where we're headedhow presumptious of them I think."

Then I think you shouldn't be at the club with any intent of swinging. If you and hubby go to a resturant, it's generally assumed you want to eat. If you and hubby go to a bar, it's generally assumed you want to have a drink. If you and hubby go to a theater with another couple it's generally assumed you want to see a movie. If you go to a swingers social gathering then it's generally assumed there will be some sexual content, however maybe not by you.

Don't get me wrong. It's OK to go to a swingers social gathering and not have intentions of swinging. That's perfectly OK and fine. It's also OK to be selective, to say your not interested, that your just there to check things out, etc. But I would hardly find it "presumptious" that someone or some other couple would approach you with conversations of a sexual nature at a swingers social event.

It sounds like you are both very nice people, but you should know to differentiate swinging from dating or romancing. Your probably not going to get wooed, wined, dined and courted. Think of swinging as recreational sex....like going to the beach for a nice swim. Then get out of the water.

[Tybee Swing]

Dito Additude, you said that so well. I totally agree with you regarding presumption. Your analogy about restaurants and movie theatres was perfect.

[ShellyM]

Yes, I also agree that Additude had some great points as well.
However, experienced swingers can tell if a couple is receptive or not, even in the club. We have couples that sit at a table and are there just to party and have fun with each other...probably couples committed to only swinging together. And then lol, you can always tell the newbies, because they have the deer caught in the headlights kind of look, they are thinking "what if my friends knew I was here?" And then you can tell the ones who are there to look for potential partners, or to play. So although I do agree with Additude on many points, I think that if a couple is experienced and receptive they will know who and who not to approach.

[Jeepgurly]

Hi everybody thanks so far for all the great thoughts and ideas regarding my post. A lot to think about.

I do agree with a lot of what has been said alot of it is dead on accurate. But because I was trying to summarize a lot of thoughts and experiences into as short a post as I could manage a lot was left out that would give you a bigger better impression of who we are and indeed how we feel.

For Additude I can understand your analogy and while its a good one, I don't think it pertains to what I meant. Maybe what I said, which is all you can address/respond to but not really what I meant. What I meant was we're all at a swinger's party so in the back of all of our minds (at the very least, in the front for many) we all know thats what we're there for. But as i'm learning your name and the other getting to know you basics, I don't need you to bring up the possibility of sex already. I know why i'm there, I know why you're there but for me I like to feel out chemistry first and even if I am attracted to you I still like to get to know you without you bringing up what we both already know is a possibility. If it feels right it'll come up naturally i'm sure and when it does under those circumstances I wouldn't mind it a bit, i'd even welcome it. I think for me hitting all the steps is exciting, building up the anticipation.

As far as the restaurant analogy, if I could use it and tweak it a bit. Some go to restaraunts and perhaps want to just dig in without looking at the menu, stuff their faces and go. We're not in a hurry. We might want to have a drink first, share some conversation and enjoy a leisurely dinner - whats the rush afterall? And when someone is rushing me, then they just don't appeal to me. Thats fine, i'm in it for us afterall.

I feel better about us and how we're progressing after a few days to think about things. I really don't care to morph into another type of couple. I don't care to rush us and I think we'll be fine. I do need to brush up on my flirting but its the initial meeting we have trouble with not the talking after we get some face time.And contrary to what some of you have said, we really don't care to develop a relationship with these people outside of a superficial one. I know that for us we could even swing within a night of meeting someone if the chemistry was right and it was a natural progression. I don't even mind them swinging with others on the side, thats none of our business but I just feel like if you're interested in us then focus on us and let it be about us when we're together. When we're together or when you're pursuing us I don't want to feel like anyone will do. For me a lot of the appeal comes from being desired and if I don't feel desired watching them make their rounds then it just won't happen for me. That almost translates itself into how I live my life in general. When you're with me be with me thats all.

One other thing:

....and many are open to having sex that night. By the way, I don't think that makes them crass or crude, or bed-notchers - that's just not your style.

I don't find that crass - what I feel is crass are close ups of your genitalia, sexual or dirty talk outside of a sexual situation or even before I would think it was appropriate with a new couple or someone we've just met. Cheesy would you like to CUM join us lines. I like to approach any relationship the same way, hitting all the basics first the same as I would in my vanilla life but in a swingers setting theres the added excitement that we both know that if we hit it off it could progress. I don't want to see your dick or talk about how big it is, to me thats crass. I just want to get to know you a bit.


I hope i've clarified some of my thoughts. Just putting them out there for all of you and stopping to think about how it is I do feel is helpful for me. I appreciate all the feedback.

Jeepgurly

Our SlS Profile

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by Jeepgurly

Sometimes I wonder if this lifestyle suits us. I am not an exhibitionist, i'm shy, modest, self concious and pretty conservative as far as flirting or initiating anything goes. Whats worse is that I am slightly oblivious to overtures towards me and when I do notice them I don't know how to respond/react even when I am interested.

Jeepgurly,

Something else just occurred to me...this may help. You and your husband have been a couple since you were only 9th graders in school. You've been together forever, so to speak. Once you found each other, you stopped needing to develop dating skills, because you were already with the one you were going to be with. You were still kids at the time you stopped developing dating/flirting skills with different people.

Dating is really learning the skills of flirting, and many social skills that go along with dating. The longer a person is in the dating world as a single, the more they develop these skills. People who continued to date all through their late teens, through their 20's, and maybe into their 30's and beyond simply have many more years of dating/flirting skills under their belts. It's just an advantage that some people have over you and your husband, because they have more experience with being a flirt.

You and your husband certainly can develop these skills, too. I'm sure you will. It's just that you stopped seeking others when you were still kids, so you have some catching up to do. You could practice flirting in various settings. Not to give mixed signals or anything, but just learning to be a better flirt. Try to practice making more eye contact with people in general. Practice being the first to say hello to new people...things like that. If a man is checking you out in the produce aisle, look back at him and smile. I think this could really help you get over your shyness, and also could make you more comfortable with the flirting that you receive when you're meeting people in the Lifestyle.

I'll use a personal story as an example of how this works, acquiring flirting/dating skills. After my first marriage, I entered the single world again in my 30's. I realized at one point that when men initiated flirting with me by eye contact, I got shy and looked away. This gave the non-verbal cue that I wasn't interested, which wasn't the truth, I just was uncomfortable with flirting and didn't know how anymore! After I realized what was happening, I started to make myself look back and smile. It took practice. I had to learn how to flirt. I got better at it over time.

Fast-forward to my second marriage, and us starting to swing together (first time for both of us): I've used the same flirting skills and friendly social skills in swinging settings that I've used in my vanilla dating, and they work exactly the same way. I'm a lot more outgoing now than I used to be.

It doesn't have to come naturally, and shy people don't have to give up by saying, "I'm just naturally shy". Social / flirting / dating skills can all be acquired. Hope that helps!

[Tybee Swing]

I agree with a lot of what you just said. I don't like close ups of genitalia, either...especially if they're used as primary photos.

Originally Posted by Jeepgurly

I don't want to see your dick or talk about how big it is, to me thats crass.

LOL! I totally agree.

I do like to talk to people about what they like sexually and what we like sexually. Not in a gross way, but in ways that help us all understand what we're into and especially what we're NOT into. I don't want to leave all this to chance after we're in a sexual situation, where things could get awkward and you have to squirm away saying, "I don't do that!" So, I do like sexual conversation in that sense.

Do you and your husband also like to talk ahead of time about sexual preferences before you get into the sexual setting?