to swing or not too?

[mystressgaia]

I figured this would be the best place to ask my questions since it seems you guys have some experience.

My husband of 7 years has been trying to get me to have a threesome or group sex with him. It started off years ago just joking around but we have seriously been talking about it lately.

I have some issues that I feel I would need to work through first. I really dont like the idea of him with another woman even if Im there. To me it seems like cheating with permission. Ive tried to explain my view point to him but I dont think he understands it. For me it seems that I am not enough for him or that Im doing something wrong in the bedroom, he says this is not the case its just something he would like to experience and he figures that we've been together long enough that he could bring it up.

Now here are my questions, Do we keep talking about it? Do I comprimise myself to make him happy? If I am not willing to do this do I just say no, and become a hypocrite if one day it happens? (explaniation: I am very open to it spontaneously happening but that time may never come)

If I say no, where does that leave us? Do I tell him to go and find someone who will do this with him and make him happy? I have two children with him and love him very much but Im not sure what to do now. Also Im a jealous person and it almost hurts that he wants to share me with others, he says he doesnt see it that way, I should be honored because its so good he wants to share it with others.

ugg....... sorry this was long, any answers are appreciated.
thanks.

[SAMnTINA]

Tell him you are not interested at this point in your life for all the reasons you stated. You will let him know when and if things changes. This is not somthing you should do for him if you are not ready. Group sex, swinging and the lifestyle can and is a wonderful thing for those that can seperate sex from love and don't have jealous issues. But its not right for everyone one and timing is important. Married 7 years is not that long, with two children at home this may not be the right time for you. Tell him you are always willing to talk and maybe even a little rool playing in bed might be fun but now is not the right time for you you are not saying never just not now and that you will keep an open mind to the future.

We were married 18 years when we started swinging been at this for 6+ years now so you can do the math. The kids were old enough that they wanted lifes of there own (Teenagers only want to be seen with there parents when it comes time to pay at the mall, the rest of the time they want there friends to thinks they do not have parents).

Good luck

Steve & Terri

[ohash01]

Hmmm...have you TOLD him all of this? He shouldn't ever "force" or coerce you into swinging. It should be something you want to do for yourself. There are great benefits...you will learn more about yourself and your sexuality than you would probably ever learn non-swinging. There are also downfalls...what about a situation that you guys haven't discussed? What if you end up being so emotionally distraught afterwards that the marriage suffers?

Did you ask him HOW he wants to swing? Does he want to just see you with another female and maybe "help" a little? Or does he want 2 women, both of whom he has intercourse with? Because that can make a difference too. And the fact that he has said it's something he'd like to experience and you've been together "long enough" means he just trusted you with his feelings, and rather than going out and finding 2 single women, he wanted you involved...he wanted to do this as a couple.

Spontaneous happenings can be A LOT of fun (trust me...I know)...but it also causes A LOT of wondering. You wake up in the morning and go "Well...am I the first one to start this conversation or should he?"

It sounds like you are atleast MILDLY interested...I would definately say talk about it more. Set up "rules and guidelines" for the day when IF you are read to proceed, this IS how it will happen. For example...he can touch the other woman, but sex is just for you. Jealousy is an important emotion...in moderation...it can help you weed out problems before they happen. And I'm sure that everyone on this board has at some point experienced jealousy...whether in swinging or not.

Tell him no for now...tell him you're not ready at this point. Explain to him why and tell him that (if you really are a little interested) that it will be open for discussion in the future.

[ShellyM]

It personally does not sound to me like this is something you are interested in doing, especially by saying that you are having to be convinced to do it. This is NOT something that you can do to please your boyfriend, but has to be something you are okay with on your own. Don't do it, I think you would end up feeling devastated.

[havefuninsun]

Hi,

First and foremost, I'm glad you guys are able to talk about this, even though you may not be on the same page. Communication is *imperative* when talking about swinging (and anything, for that matter ).

To answer your concerns:

I don't think men want other women because they're partner is failing them in some way .. I understand your feeling of "what am I not fulfilling for him if he wants something else?" What I finally understand is, men (and women) like variety. And because men seem to be able to seperate feelings and sex more easily than women do sometimes, sex with another woman is just sex. A crude analogy is having your favorite pair of jeans you wear all the time, but once in a while just want to wear something else. I know you're probably thinking "I can't BELIEVE she's comparing me to a nice worn pair of jeans," and I'm not. Just an analogy.

You are smart in knowing your own feelings, and knowing that jealousy may be an issue. That's a GREAT thing that you know that about yourself. If you decide you want to venture down this road, you know that there is no room for jealousy, so you will have to come to terms with that. I know I did. And what's amazing is how unjealous I actually feel in a play session. I love to see him pleasured; I love to see him pleasure another woman (he's good!). And ... I know that what we have is such a wonderful thing, at such a deeper level, that our playmates will never touch that part of our relationship. Believe it or not, we actually feel CLOSER and more in love with each other everytime we've played. Sounds like an oxymoron, doesn't it? But it's true.

Keep talking. I'm sure your husband will respect your feelings and be willing to talk about all the aspects that bother you. And you need to be honest with him about what all the issues are so he can better communicate with you as well (that whole mars/venus thing). And although you've said "no" now, you're always welcome to change your mind in the future .

Good luck!!

[Pepper & Drew]

Originally Posted by mystressgaia

For me it seems that I am not enough for him or that Im doing something wrong in the bedroom, he says this is not the case its just something he would like to experience and he figures that we've been together long enough that he could bring it up.

I think you need to hear his answer. People who swing (at least not those who are well-adjusted, happy swingers) aren't looking for someone to replace their spouse or be better in bed. In fact, most people here had fabulous, hot sex lives before swinging, and would probably say it's only gotten better since.

Now here are my questions, Do we keep talking about it?

If you still want to talk about it, by all means, YES. Talk about it often if you like. He needs to understand where you're coming from and you need to understand where he's coming from.

Do I comprimise myself to make him happy?

Hell no. If you do anything that you're uncomfortable with or don't want to do, it will only breed resentment and eventually that resentment will boil over. If you don't want to swing...don't swing.

If I am not willing to do this do I just say no, and become a hypocrite if one day it happens? (explaniation: I am very open to it spontaneously happening but that time may never come)

Here's where I'm confused. I think you need to articulate to him why you would be open to it spontaneously happening, but not something planned. Personally, I think having not talked about boundaries--like what is or is not ok, or how you both feel, would be far riskier to your feelings and overall marriage than continuing to talk about it. As a couple, we wouldn't want to play with you, because it's situations like these that end up with people yelling at each other across the bed and completely killing the mood, just because they aren't on the same page.

If I say no, where does that leave us? Do I tell him to go and find someone who will do this with him and make him happy? I have two children with him and love him very much but Im not sure what to do now. Also Im a jealous person and it almost hurts that he wants to share me with others, he says he doesnt see it that way, I should be honored because its so good he wants to share it with others.

Only you know where it leaves you as a couple. I'm surprised that you're considering telling him to leave because he brought up the idea of swinging. Swing, or don't swing, but certainly don't boil down your marriage to sex. I'm sure that you share so much more than that--goals, children, history, etc. that no matter whether you decide to do about swinging, your marriage should still be as viable as it was before it was brought up.

Pepper

[WesternSwing]

It seems to me like although you don't feel you can do it, you're at least not running away screaming, so you are at least open to the conversation. This is good in all circumstances in a relationship, not just swinging. If either party can't talk about their fantasies than I feel there is some deep issues in the relationship that will someday rear their ugly head.

It comes down to this, though. If you don't want to do it, than don't. It's not for everybody. It's great that you recognize your issues with it and openly, and not judgementally, express them.

I find it interesting you mention that if the situation ever just spontaneously happened you'd probably be up for it. Why then? Does such an event relieve you of the same responsibility and maybe the guilt you think you may feel if you actually planned it? Just a question to make you go "hmmmm..."

You should never do it just to please your spouse though. This goes for anything, not just swinging. That is just opening the door for resenting them in the future.

I would say that from your post it seems you have issues with it, but somehow, someway the idea is still intriguing, that you cool the idea of it happening right now and just maybe talk about it, fantasize together about it. Just make some fun out of the "what if" of it. That alone may be what he needs right now.

How important is it to your husband that you swing? Is it worth the relationship? I wouldn't think so. If it is than there are other issues at work here besides just wanting to swing.

As far as him wanting you to have fun? This is a concept that non-swingers sometimes have a hard time wrapping their minds around. Yes, I really like seeing Mrs. WS having a good time. For me, that is as big a turn-on as the idea of having sex with someone else myself. Her being "naughty" turns me on. Me being "naughty" turns her on. In turn it works for both of us. To some it seems strange, to us it seems natural.

So he is not trying to whore you out or anything like that. Truly, the idea of you having sex with another man may really be a turn-on for him. Nothing more, nothing less.

Mr. WS

[intuition897]

M.Gaia, you sound just like me a few years ago. I swear, I felt exactly the same way you do, and now look at me. I'm probably one of the lifestyle's biggest cheerleaders! When my husband brought up the idea of swinging, I was hurt and deeply offended...even though it intrigued me on some level. But I just couldn't understand why on earth he would feel compelled to give away the one thing I thought was most precious and sacred between us. I have since come to understand that dicks and pussies are just body parts and, as such, are not worthy of being the placeholder of a sacred bond between a man and a woman. The only thing that is worthy is The Gift, which is what we give to one another in love's name. My Gift to my husband was myself. All of me, in all of my unimpressive glory, and my absolute trust in that surrender. Part of this gift is to not ask anything of him as a condition of my being there. All I ask is that he appreciates the magnitude of what he is being given, and the responsibility he bears in that. I trust that he will not use this power I have given him to hurt me.

So when I say that we do not ask anything of one another, I mean just that. I do not demand that he remain monogamous just to soothe my ego. This, I feel, would limit him, and my job as his spouse is to enhance and enrich his life. To encourage him to live his life to its fullest potential. If I did nothing to come to terms with my insecurities, I would not be doing my job.

I, too, felt very insecure with the idea of him touching another woman. My imagination ran wild with all the thoughts I figured he and the other woman would be thinking, secret alliances between them that I was not privy to, private jokes that I didn't get, malicious or resentful thoughts towards me, or worries of abandonnment. I had nightmarish fantasies that once he had a taste of this other woman, he would either forget all about me, or wish I was no longer in his life...or wish me dead. I imagined the other woman bad-mouthing me, and - instead of defending my honour - he would fully agree with her.

I tortured myself mercilessly with these thoughts, and drove myself to tears. Swinging is like looking into a magnifying mirror: it reflects back to you an amplified version of what it sees. In swinging you are your own worst enemy! Truly. It fixes nothing; it only amplifies what is already there. If it is good, then the good is amplified, but if it is bad... Yet you hear so often that it was swinging that caused the problem. Bullshit. The problem was there to begin with; swinging just revealed it. And because it forced the couple to resolve the problem (they couldn't stuff those demons back into Pandora's Box), they gave up and blamed the failure on swinging. Easy enough to do, I suppose.

The fastest and easiest way to resolve these fears is to talk to your husband. Sit down and say the things you have always been afraid to admit. It sounds difficult, but it's just a matter of deciding that fear has nothing to do with this discussion, and you WILL say what is undeniably true. Just stick to the absolute truth, be clear and concise, and get it out there in the open. Both of you should decide before you begin this discussion that you will not allow emotion to interfere with what you are saying. You are talking about the framework and foundation of your marriage here. Emotion has its place, but it should not be allowed to persuade you to make decisions that are ultimately bad for you and your marriage. Because left to its own devices the heart will tell you all sorts of foolish things, like to not speak about something that makes you uncomfortable, or to have an affair behind your partner's back because you are afraid to be honest and you "need" to satisfy some curiosity, or to continue a relationship that does not and will never improve the lives of the people in it.

We don't sound much like romantics, do we? Well, we are and we aren't. We believe in true love that lives forever, and outlasts death. We believe in the absolute purity of love, and we believe that it exists and is not a fairy tale. This is because many of us have actually experienced it. We just don't feel that we need to shut out reality to believe it or experience it. If we need to shut out reality, then it means it's not the real thing. We rank that "prince-&-princess-happily-ever-after" crap up there with the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. True love does not resemble fairy tales.

True love is unconditional friendship. True love is loving someone enough to let them go. True love is the forgetting of one's self for the sake of someone else.

Now that said, it still is each person's responsibility to not compromise their heart-felt beliefs for the sake of someone else. That's an offense before God, and is not negotiable (AKA "sin"). For example, a person should not do something (like swinging) that would make him or her feel degraded or dirty or worth less as a person. It's a damned fine line there, but it exists. And you know when you've crossed it by the conspicuous lack of peace about your decision. If you are not at peace with your decisions, you're on the wrong side of the fine line.

Man, I'm long-winded. I would suggest that you do some serious thinking about what it is that you feel specifically (don't just label it "jealousy" and leave it at that...use specific labels like anger, fear, nervousness, loneliness, anticipation, etc.) and do your best to draw a few conclusions. Be your own shrink. Then take these findings to your husband and share what you've found with him. Ask him to clarify for you whether or not your fears are justified and to explain exactly why or why not. You need to know exactly where you stand with one another. Please believe me, your husband is trying to reach out to you with this offer. He is not asking something of you; he is offering you a gift. There is no catch. He is giving you back your sexuality. You gave it to him when you got married as a gift, but like giving someone a coat that is tailor made for you, it's only a token because he can't actually wear it himself. Only YOU can make the most of your sexuality so he's giving it back to you...although he fully appreciates the gesture. It's like being an accomplished pianist and composer and giving your husband your piano...but he can't play a note. So instead, he's giving you back the piano, and suggesting that you play him a song instead, since no one makes that piano sing like you do.

Another analogy would be your husband owning a Porsche and you're both driving down the road, and he's faced with a HUGE long stretch of empty blacktop, TONS of horsepower under the hood, and a wife who is asking him to please obey the speed limit. Now, because he loves you, he will do as you ask. But imagine giving him a mischeivous grin and telling him to floor it...

[LakeLuvers]

Originally Posted by havefuninsun

A crude analogy is having your favorite pair of jeans you wear all the time, but once in a while just want to wear something else. I know you're probably thinking "I can't BELIEVE she's comparing me to a nice worn pair of jeans," and I'm not. Just an analogy.

A damn good analogy, actually! I've never heard this one before and I think it's great!


But back to the point - I'd say keep talking. Communication is so very important. Don't rule it out for the future, keep talking about it, do some role playing in bed, and keep the communication going. But DO NOT participate until you are (both of you) comfortable with the situation!

Good luck!

[Mr. Truelove]

I don't think you should swing until you both want to.

Keep in mind that swinging is not for everyone. I don't share your view that it's cheating with permission. To me it's something my spouse and I are doing together.

But if she had said what you said in your post, we wouldn't be moving forward.

There is nothing that prevents you two from talking about it more with each other. And nothing to say you might not warm up to the idea eventually as well. So let time be on your side and talk it over, perhaps go back and focus on your marriage some more and come back to the topic at a later date.

It's been two years since I first mentioned this to my wife. And I didn't bring it up a second time until about a year ago. Time benefited us and no matter what your conclusion is, I'm sure it'll be good to you as well. At least thats my honest opinion.

Mr. Truelove

[sereneiders]

I believe you got a lot of good answers here.

I won't advice to swing or not to do it. It's up to you, it is your right to choose what to do, but certainly if you choose to do it, it have to be after doing a lot of work, which means: think a lot, talk a lot.

In any case, I'd dare to advice you to engage in doing this work, WITHOUT correlating it with the "to swing or not to swing" question, but because, IMO, you're stuck with a lot of issues that 1) are affecting you, and 2) are affecting your marriage.

It calls my attention a couple of things from what you said.

It seems for you everithing is black or white, there are no gray shades in between. You trend to think "if he have sex with another women, then NECESARILY he doesn't love me and I am not enough for him".

This leads to another ringing bell: it seems to me you undersestimate yourself. You're doing it alone, without anyone else's help, not even your husband, but when your husband asked you this, he fit in the right place as for you to listen YOUR OWN words isnthead of his words. Why wouldn't him appreciate the relationship you developed during 7 years, all the common history, as to valuate you as a person and his wife, and keep chosing you over any other woman he could have sex with? Do you feel yourself as merely a set of holes devised to relieve his sexual urges, so if this set of holes were not proficient enough for the task, it would be so easy for him to discard you and pick a new (better) set of holes? You don't seem to give yourself credit, nor give your husband credit, nor give your relationship credit, and this seems to be a serious problem here.

Again, this leads to another thing, because so far it seems I am blaming on you for all of this, but I wonder, if your husband is so centered and balanced as he seems to portrait himself... why he didn't noticed all of this, of if he noticed this, why he wouldn't be bringing the subject? In any case, if I were in his shoes, I would be trying to work on the "credits" issues, even before bringing the swinging subject.

For you, this could resemble the Greek's tragedy structure, where you'd be telling a prophecy about the tragedy (you, loosing your husband because you're "not enough" for him), and everyone's acts ends up leading to the prophecy fullfillment no matter what they choose to do, how well intended they are, nor how harder people want to avoid it from being fulfilled. So, back to you (since you're the one who posted), I believe the lack of credit is what lead you to make this prophesy. For some issues, it is the prophecy we forge what ultimattely matters, and it'd be a matter of changing your prophesy for a better one. Forget the swinging stuff here. If you were able to give yourself, your husband, and your marriage more credit, it'd be enough to save it. And back to the swinging stuff, it'd be enough to be able to swing without risking to tear appart your marriage, and, even more important, to enable you to refuse to swing without risking your marriage.

When people ask why we swing, I like to say "because we can". It isn't "because we need to" (which means "because we cannot not swing"). If we can't, we wouldn't swing, and still we'd have the excellent marriage we have. It seems to me that you feel your husband is asking you to swing "because he needs it" to save your marriage. I'd need to read his own words as to endorse this thought, so far, I only have your word, and your lack of self confidence easily would make you jump to conclude he's asking you this because of a need for something better.

My point is, if you don't trust you two already have something "good enough", this would easily undermine your marriage roots. If your husband didn't realize of this problem, he's collaborating in undermining your marriage roots (and as an aside, it¡s probable that you were right about something, because he wouldn't have the wood for swinging as well).

So, the issue here isn't about swinging or not, it's about your marriage survival, no matter what you choose to do about swinging. Marriage is like tango, you need two people to dance tango, and the two of you are required to work on your issues. If you don't, I am afraid it is very likely that your prophecy will be fulfilled.

Looking for counseling would be wise.

[ddt&lgt]

My wife and I are not in the lifestyle. I guess…I have to say we flirt with the lifestyle. And I don’t mean that to be we tease another couple and then don’t engage in sex with them. What I mean is that we are both very curious and we want to know more before we take that plunge.

We started visiting clothing optional beaches, moved on to resorts (we’ve been to Hedonism II a couple of times and just returned from Desire in Cancun), and we have visited lifestyle clubs near our hometown. While at these destinations we always tell those with whom we strike up conversations that we don’t yet swing…just dipping our toes in the water until we’re more comfortable. As of yet, no one we have spoken to was either rude or tried to push us into something. (Some, but not all, of the single guys have made us uncomfortable, usually a more stern “excuse us” gets the point across) The couples are very friendly, talk about what interests they have in swinging, and the kids and dogs.

I believe my wife would never have considered many of the things we have done thus far without me sharing fantasies with her and encouraging her to do the same with me. We have been together 5 years and married for over 1. Both have been around that horn before and we each have grown children and grandchildren. She was raised in a somewhat closed minded Christian family and the previous marriage did not include any experimentation in more “out there” sexual activity. None of which is right or wrong it is just the way many people are raised. From what I observe it may also be the reason why many swingers and other more liberal sexual minded people take some precautions to keep their activities private and within their peer group. Least we labeled sexually deviant by a large part of our society.

So my point…if I really had one…is if you have any interest in swinging or the lifestyle or whatever moniker you wish ascribe to any interest by one or both members of a relationship to step into nonmonogamous sexual activity, you must first address in each others heads what you really want, why, and what in your past either encourages or discourages those feelings. Both partners must be patient with each other, fair, and above all totally honest. We think that is what encouraged our open communication without any fear of the other partner getting upset or thinking you’re some kind of sex freak. Our only rule is, no one does anything without the other’s approval and NO is OK.

With that simple rule we have exposed ourselves in public, watched others engage in many forms of sexual activity in just about every possible combination or permutation, and engaged in sex ourselves in view of others. We freely admire and discuss with each other our observations of other people and couples. “She has a nice rack.” “His ass looks good.” “I like the way she trims her pussy.” “I’d suck his cock.” “Those guys were a nice couple.”

One day I may watch her take another man’s cock doggie with me beneath her kissing her pussy while she and another women share me cock. That is one of my fantasies. One of her fantasies is a man’s cock in her pussy, mine in her ass, and another man’s cock in her mouth. (That one works for me too) But, the best part is that we both really know what interests the other and we both know that neither of is emotionally quite ready for the reality just yet.

Take your time and openly share your feelings with each other. And you can open the door and look in without fear.

[wetpanties]

This is the "Mrs" of the couple...We have been together 6 years and into the lifestyle for about 5 years...in my "prior life" my ex brought up the swinging many years ago and I was very hurt as I equated "sex" with love...I felt if he loved me he would not even want to be with another female...but...it is totally different!!! What my husand and I do now is strictly for PHYSICAL pleasure and not for emotions...we have a terrific sex life between us but we totally enjoy being with other couples and females for the physical pleasure alone. If your husband truly loves you, there is nothing for you to be jealous about. I suggest you talk to him about your feelings and just try swinging..you may be pleasantly surprised!!!

[cuzzeyesaidso]

I'm still confused. What do you expect to happen different if it's a spontaneous thing vs. a thought out and planned evening?

It would seem to me that the comfort level would be a little higher if you and your husband had worked out the kinks ahead of time.

[SouthBond]

Seven years, two kids, a wife that has a major problem with the whole idea sounds like you do not need to join the world of swingers. Go get your husband and bring him to the computer and show him what we are saying. In fact, have him ask questions and we can respond. No, means no. The most important person in his life doesn't want to play. Get over it. So you go to him and cry and say Darling, I love you more than anything, you are the father of our children, I can't stand to see you with another woman, it will destroy our family and how would you like to drag this through the Courts. I have audio tapes and video tapes of every time you have ask me about going to some motel, pulling all my clothes off and screwing total strangers. I have already talked to a lawyer and he said that he will rip your ass from one end to the other and easily convince a jury that you are some kind of pervert and a danger to our your kids. I will own everything you have for the rest of your life. Give him a wink and ask him if he still wants to play.