Confused but eager

[Principe03]

I'm new to this site and really wanting to break into the lifestyle with my sexy girlfriend but a few problems I need advice on.

When my girlfriend is aware that I want an MMF and at a dinner she whispers in my ear (a bit drunk she later admits) "You want to see me suck your friend off", and then expect a reaction out of me. I didn't know how to react but later she said she was drunk and hinted at regretting saying it.

Yet my girlfriend has responded very sexy to the following questions while me and her were having sex:

1. Who would you fuck if I wasn't around?
2. Who would you want fucking you with me right now?
3. You like latin men huh?

She made out with another girl at a GLBT club as a show for me, and I'm really wanting to have her give me another show of sorts. I need a good breaking point to find out if she really is interested or just teasing me of sort. I have spoken to several females online who say that a girl is lying if she doesn't admit she would love to have sex with an extra person. I don't want to push it on her as much as I use to, but damn it would be such a turn on to see her in a MMF or me in a voyeur situation.

P.S.-Is taking pictures a good start toward dropping her inhibitions? What else can I use as a "test"?

[SuAndBud]

This must be such a common occurrence.

The guy teases (it's always the guy first!) the girl teases back. The guy (and the girl) then spend hours, days weeks, months - maybe even decades wondering but not communicating their thoughts, a summary of which might be: "Did he/she really mean it? Should I have pressed harder? Could I now be enjoying multiple orgasms from a multitude of partners and still hold onto the guy/girl I love?"

Hands up who HASN'T been there.

The sooner we start teaching this stuff in school, the better - LOL.

[SuAndBud]

Prince,

We're new to this too, but based on your story would suggest you take your girl to a swinger party. Tell her where you're going. Say "It'll be fun - we can always leave as there's no pressure" - which is true.

If she said that before at a party, chances are her mind is already open to he lifestyle.

Worst that might happen is a kebab on the way home and blistering sex after with the thoughts of what might have been ringing in your head....Until next time!

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

Prince,

We're new to this too, but based on your story would suggest you take your girl to a swinger party. Tell her where you're going. Say "It'll be fun - we can always leave as there's no pressure" - which is true.

If she said that before at a party, chances are her mind is already open to he lifestyle.

Worst that might happen is a kebab on the way home and blistering sex after with the thoughts of what might have been ringing in your head....Until next time!

Wow... I strongly disgree with this advice!

Principe03,

There are many things you said that are ringing alarms for me.

You have to be able to tell appart fantasies from reality. We usually have a lot of sexual fantasies, and not all of them are ment to be bring to reality. So far, you two were playing with fantasies, which is ok, but you cannot jump into conclude she actually WANT this to happen in reality, unless you OPENLY ASK to know... in a situation where both of you have a cold heart.

Here's the other thing: alcohol ease you up, you may express your feelings and fantasies, and you'r FAR from being in a cold heart situation while drinking. The sole fact that, once sobre, she regrets saying what she said, should be more than enough clule that she DON'T want this to happen for real... Morover, that she didn't want you to ever know of her fantasies and you did because the alcohol eased her.

This is hardly the proper scenario from where to start swinging. And if you push her, or try to talk her into this, on the grounds of what she said while being drunk, you risk to spoil all the trust she have on you, because you'd be taking advantage of that situation, of something she already made explicit she regrets.

Don't even think of missleading her to bring her to a swinger club, by telling her what SuAndBud suggested, because WE ALL KNOW what's going on here: you'd expect her to get drunk, and easy to talk her into fulfilling your fantasy for real, somethign she may regret for the rest of her life, and, seriously, this would be the closest thing to a rape you can do to her.

Raise your eyes from your bellybutton and take a look at her. She may NOT have the same desires you have, and in this case, you'd have to RESPECT her limits.

To be able to succesfully swing, a couple needs a high degree of communication and honesty, all the opposed to all the wondering you posted, the missleading, the adventage taken from what someone does or say while being drunk. You need to talk, talk, and talk over the cofee table about this, think about the eventual odd outcomes and how you'd deal with them to preserve your relationship, be up to accept you won't fulfill your fantasies, up to take the NO as an answer, be respectfull about each other arguments and decisions, and if there's a chance for something to happen, to take it slowly, gowing at the peace of the slowest one.

I'll ask you to keep reading on, the board is full of good advice and experiences, both good and bad ones, from where to learn. You'll find tons of advice against swinging to guys coming from where you come, and tons of bad experiences from people who did what you told in your post, or what SuAndBud adviced.

Also, notice that SuAndBud gave their advice in their 8th post in this board, that they have a succesfull experience in an scenario going against what's advisable for most of this boards members (just read the board), which IMO tells us more about their luck than about their wisdom, that I am challenging from their advice.

At least, hang on and wait for the answers other members will give to you in this thread before "making your move".

[Amanda69]

We're new to this too, but based on your story would suggest you take your girl to a swinger party. Tell her where you're going. Say "It'll be fun - we can always leave as there's no pressure" - which is true.

Don't even consider doing this to a woman who hasn't clearly been informed ahead of time of what she is getting into and CLEARLY stated she would be into it or at least okay with checking it out.

The above advice is a recipe for disaster. The amount of couples I have seen show up at the club or a party and once the female works out what the club is really about and sees some action...bam they are in a big fight and she walks out. Not a good way to start off swinging.

It took me from the time my partner started sharing fantasties and a few interesting interactions with males and females at regular clubs, approximately one more year before I agreed and was comfortable with the concept of going to a swing club. Even then it was about another 6-8 months of attending before I truly became comfortable with swinging.

We all have fantasies and we all say things during sex to turn on our partners. These things don't always translate into actual events in real life unless you are both on board.

On a side note you are on a good track so far, explore the ideas a little more, suggest checking out a website such as this. Communicate, communicate and communicate some more. By the way communication is a 2 way street it involves listening as much as talking...have fun and play safe.

[SuAndBud]

Whoa,

At no time would we suggest taking anyone to a club without them knowing it was a such a club.

But it was she (albeit "a bit drunk") apparently, who asked if he wanted her to suck his friend. If ever you wanted to push-the-envelope it's after a statement like that.

Would the average guy here have ever said to a date "would you like me to lick your friend's pussy"?.

She had the thought first, so how could it be so harmful to suggests a club?

How many couples in the vanilla world toy with the idea of swinging - but as individuals, not as a couple, through fear- so don't share the thought with their partner? Each in their own fantasies. Someone has to broach the subject and someone has to follow it up or we end up with half the population being of a swinging mindset but half of the population not and because the half that are are too embarassed to agree or admit to the same thoughts as the other half - no-one actually swings.

The OP is obviously interested in the lifestyle. The OP's partner has expressed an interest (however tenuously).

Option A: Push the envelope a little. You can always pull back.
Option B: Ignore it (though you want it) and live for the next 30 years in the vanilla world with each of you wanting to express yourself to no avail. Then get divorced.

[SuAndBud]

PS.

There are some excellent First Posts on this (and other) board/s.

And some lousy 80th Posts.

Haven't yet checked out all the 8th Posts.

Your point is, exactly?

[sereneiders]

Well, my point is that we've seen posts like this one before, and people comming afterwards looking for advice on how to fix things up after they had a bad idea. I invite you to see this post because I believe you'd recognize certain patterns among all the possible ways to approach swinging.

I didn't suggested you adviced the OP to bring his GF to a swingers party without her knowledge, but that you didn't pointed out her knowledge was a requirement. No one needs to push a little bit any envelope, but to talk about the fantasies and the fears refraining someone to bring them to reality. Even when a little push may help, it will be a matter of luck, and such a little push can do way more harm than good.

The good thing here is, the OP came here looking for advice as to know what to do (something a lot of people doesn't until the harm is done), and IMO, we're responsible for the advice we provide. So, even when it's possible that the club idea could work, AT LEAST we should inform the OP (and every reader coming afterwards who face a similar scenario) about the risks involved. For this, and for any other option we could suggest.

Now, it seems to me you didn't take the time to read on, because the only options you see are:

Option A: Push the envelope a little. You can always pull back.
Option B: Ignore it (though you want it) and live for the next 30 years in the vanilla world with each of you wanting to express yourself to no avail. Then get divorced.

You didn't mentioned the Option C, which already worked for a lot of us, is the one you'll find posted more often in this board, can be resumed as "talk, talk and talk", leaving the door open to find out swinging isn't for them.

The way you phrased your Option B give for granted that you'd get divorced if you don't "dare" to push in order to fulfill your swinging fantasies. This is a serious statement, because:

1) It isn't true, moreover, it is missleading for the one looking for advice. You're threatening the reader to swing "or else".
2) It seems you meant swinging could be necesary to AVOID a divorce, and again, this is false and missleading. Most swingers will advice AGAINST swinging if you have marital problems, because it'd be the fastest way to reach a divorce. Most of the couples you'll find aroun are able to succesfully swing because they WOULDN'T risk their marriages if they were NOT swinging.

If you read around, you'll find the forum puspose IS NOT to advocate for swinging, but to help people understand the risks involved as to have enough information to decide to swing, or to AVOID swinging, on more solid grounds than the one they have when looking for advice.

[menher1559]

You know, the more I read this board, the more I realize that alot of times, it does nothing more than create jealousy and what would appear to be anger and hard feelings....

I was always of the opinion that folks were entitled to an opinion and should be allowed to voice it. In so far as not to offend anyone...Seldom it seems that ultimately someone finds offense, because one's opinion is not like thier own.

Please people.....lets all be nice

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by sereneiders

If you read around, you'll find the forum puspose IS NOT to advocate for swinging, but to help people understand the risks involved as to have enough information to decide to swing, or to AVOID swinging, on more solid grounds than the one they have when looking for advice.

Sereneiders, I would have to say this sums up the board's purpose very nicely. I'm not quite sure what menher1559 means by jealousy and hard feelings. Who is jealous of whom? And the only ones who develop hard feelings are the ones who unapologetically and unashamedly hurt other people (or intended to hurt them) and were called on it. I never got the sense that the people who confronted them did it out of malice or mean-spiritedness. They seemed just as concerned for the well-being of the person they were confronting. Sometimes you just need a good kick in the ass, and I can only hope that if I ever came to a board like this with ideas to disregard the well-being of others...well I can only hope that I'll get the verbal ass-kicking that I deserve. And I'd hope that I'd be smart enough to thank them for it in the end.

[Principe03]

Well we did it watching MMF porn and she was really into it, I kept asking her "You like the way she's getting fucked" and also "You want to do that with some hot latino studs" (she has a thing for latinos). But before all that porn business we went to a Salsa club where I saw her check out a guy. I told her how I caught her and not to be scared to see what you like. As I drove back home I fingered her and started getting heavy on my spanish accent and roleplaying that she was coming back to my place to "meet" me and my friend. She reacted very well even by saying "Can I get to know both of you guys" on my knees?

Now bottomline it's all very hot but before I've had her deny ever wanting to do a MMF, so how do I know if she's just pushing the fantasy or very interested and curious in the real feeling. Also am I pushing the envelope too much and possibly going off on a limb and falling on my ass if she doesn't like it, or is it still safe?

[intuition897]

I would say maybe next time you guys could try having her dance with some of these guys the next time you go to the salsa club.* See how she likes that, and how you like it. You don't have to go all the way the first time out, y'know. This is supposed to be fun, eh? So...play it out! Let her flirt and play at the club (just be careful that the guy isn't attached or she might end up with a busted lip at the business end of an angry girlfriend's fist). Don't be afraid to let the guy know that you're NOT being played here; she's your honey, you KNOW she's flirting with him, and you totally approve. If you lead him on into thinking that she's there alone or fooling around on a husband, then you get him home and spring the truth on him, you may get some serious drama. Everything from a full-blown melt-down to performance problems if you DO manage to coax him into bed. Just because guys are reputed be natural born horn dogs doesn't mean they aren't still human. And all that male bravado will mean absolutely nothing once he's got his pants off and Mr. Happy doesn't want to come out of his coma. So my advice: keep it honest right from the get-go so he'll understand what he's getting himself into. Even though a 3some is a VERY common fantasy for guys, not every guy feels okay with making it a reality. Just like us chicks.

But I'm getting ahead of myself. I'd suggest giving her plenty of time and space. Ask her questions like you have been and keep the fantasy up. Let her set the pace. But another thing you'll need to do is bring it up - for real - in the cold light of day. So after a smokin' hot night at the salsa club followed by a lot of raunchy sex and an hour or two of sleep, have a coffee with her and talk about the night before. How would she feel about doing that for real? She may deny it, saying it's just a fantasy. This is where you get into the deeper end of the discussion, letting her know how you feel about her, and what you are open to. You'll also need to let her know WHY you have this fantasy of seeing her with another man because, if she's anything like I was, she'll feel that you do not value her if you are willing to pass her around to strangers. She needs to be made to understand that it is precisely because you love and value her so much that you are wanting to give her back her sexuality to with as she pleases. It's a gift, not an askance. So is she willing and ready to accept it, and use that gift responsibly?

*I keep trying to get Mr. intuition to take ME to one of those kinds of clubs, but he's afraid I'm going make him wear one of those frilly pink shirts.

[SuAndBud]

Intuition, you are so, so, so wrong on this.

We speak from experiences (not AN experience, but experienceS).

Su could flirt for gold in the olympics. Bud's more shy.

Su loves to party and dance and tease and be prevocative. Bud loves to watch but it can be dangerous.

Bud has got to the stage where, unless crewed up (i.e. with a few buddies in tow) he'd prefer not to accompany Su and her girlfriends to clubs/disco's because the girls flirt and dance with guys (or at least allow the guys to dance around them).

At some point during the night, however and fuelled on drink testosterone and ardour, Bud has come pretty close to having HIS lip busted along with Su's by a guy or guys who got totally the wrong idea. With his/their buddies egging them on and prepared to weigh in to help him/them out. To them, their night's pulling potential has been ruined by their having been led on by Bud's whore of a wife and her friends.

Bud's stood outside a club with police present and had to endure a guy shouting to the world that his wife is a whore. Just because she let her hair down and danced.

In our world it's commonly accepted that regardless of how far things may have progressed "no means no".

You're encouraging such behaviour in the vanilla world where the same (though it should) does not apply.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by SuAndBud

Intuition, you are so, so, so wrong on this.

We speak from experiences (not AN experience, but experienceS).

Su could flirt for gold in the olympics. Bud's more shy.

Su loves to party and dance and tease and be prevocative. Bud loves to watch but it can be dangerous.

Bud has got to the stage where, unless crewed up (i.e. with a few buddies in tow) he'd prefer not to accompany Su and her girlfriends to clubs/disco's because the girls flirt and dance with guys (or at least allow the guys to dance around them).

At some point during the night, however and fuelled on drink testosterone and ardour, Bud has come pretty close to having HIS lip busted along with Su's by a guy or guys who got totally the wrong idea. With his/their buddies egging them on and prepared to weigh in to help him/them out. To them, their night's pulling potential has been ruined by their having been led on by Bud's whore of a wife and her friends.

Bud's stood outside a club with police present and had to endure a guy shouting to the world that his wife is a whore. Just because she let her hair down and danced.

In our world it's commonly accepted that regardless of how far things may have progressed "no means no".

You're encouraging such behaviour in the vanilla world where the same (though it should) does not apply.

HOLY SHIT!

I stand corrected.

Mmm-kay, maybe just try this at swinger's clubs instead.

Gawd, I can be so naiive sometimes.

[SuAndBud]

Intuiton,

I'm (Bud's) astonished.

Expected a lecture but got an aknowledgement instead.

Thank you.

We are right on this matter and it's cool that you can appreciate that we might be, too.

Bud goes out with Su often and we both have fun but as soon as she has another of her girlie extrovert pals with her, it can be mayhem and he'd rather not be there 'coz of the jealous looks and out and out animosity that can occur when a guy has an ultra attractive lady who is not afraid to let her hair down.

It works the other way sometimes. A couple of weeks ago, after a great dancing session, a complete stranger came up to Bud and held his hand out. Bud's prior experience tells him to watch his back, but the guy (with his own lady in tow) simply shook hands and said "Nice one. You two are great. Justed wanted to say that". His girl smiled sweetly and said "Hi". (Wish we'd gotten their numbers - lol).

We were totally taken aback. What a nice thing to happen.

Generally though, it's far more risky to "be oneself" in the vanilla world these days. People who feel they have less are likely to take offence.