Considering swinging, but have other issues, where do we start?

[all4him]

can someone please advise an "ice princess prude" on the ins and outs of becoming a swinger? my bf wants to try this and i'm clueless. he's done 3somes before, i haven't. i get embarrassed going into "toy" stores. would like to try but how does one start?

[driveajeepnaked]

All4him...
I think your name is part of your problem... if you are going into this venture just for him, then you will not feel comfortable "in your own skin" in a swinger situation. I may be totally off base here, as you do say that you would like to try - but are you trying only to appease your b/f?

Do you have any interest in being with other people, with your b/f present? Another man or multiple men? Another woman? Will you enjoy seeing your b/f enhoying other people and others pleasuring him?

Please read, read and read some more - the messages on this board. Have a heart-to heart with yourself and your b/f about both of your motives for wanting this lifestyle...

V

[all4him]

I have to admit, I'm intrigued by the idea, but... i'm afraid it will cause problems between us. Does he want this because I'm not enough for him? I'm a little insecure still in our relationship whcih has been going on for about two years. We've had trust issues in the past mostly having to do with jealousy, and it's been from both sides, his ex, my ex. I'm afraid if another guy is involved and I enjoy it, then he'll think I want to be with somebody else. If it's another woman, will he like what she does better than what I do? And if it's another woman, if I touch her or she touches me (which would definitely fascinate him), does that mean I'm bi? I have no problem with anyone's sexuality, but I have never even thought of other women, nor has the thought of a woman touching me ever turned me on. Can you understand what i'm saying? Then there'sthe fear of my reaction to someone else touching him. I can say it would be ok, but....

He's the only guy I've ever experimented with and most of what he's taught me I have definitely enjoyed. I've become a lot more open about sexuality, his and mine, and don't fear talking about it anymore. I've even gone into a sex shop without (which if you had seen me the first time I went to one, you'd understand what a feat that was). I trust him sexually very much. He's never hurt me, never tried to push the issue if I said no, i don't like that after trying it. And as I said, 99%of the things he's gotten me to try I have enjoyed very much once I relaxed. A year ago we had sex in a public place and I was terrified, now I do things like give him a blow job at the movie theater before they turn out the lights. I just need to find a way to relax enough to try this. And yes, it's for him, he's a freak when it comes to sex, but I'm turning into one, sort of. So it is something I want to try, but how do I start and what advice would you give for a first timer? Should we start with another guy or should we start with a woman? Which do you think would be easier while we go through the adjustment period considering my feelings. And by the way, he thinks it would be very hot to see me with another guy, almost as hot as with a woman. That's the way he put it. Thanks for your advice.

[VegasLee]

Originally Posted by all4him

I have to admit, I'm intrigued by the idea, but... i'm afraid it will cause problems between us. Does he want this because I'm not enough for him? I'm a little insecure still in our relationship whcih has been going on for about two years. We've had trust issues in the past mostly having to do with jealousy, and it's been from both sides, his ex, my ex.

Just what you wrote there says that you really need so spend a great deal of time TALKING to your partner before you even consider this.

Swinging involves a great deal more then just sex and you hit on some of the main problems.

Trust, Jealousy are two of the biggest. From either side.

The "handle" you are using also says a great deal. As long as you are doing this for him you will end up regretting it.

I have a feeling you, and him might be young. You have only been together two years yet and have a great deal to learn about each other before you break it all up trying to do "for him" all the time.

You are making a good move by asking things in this forum though. Hopefully you take a great deal of time and read the 100's/1000's of threads here before you venture out into this lifestyle.

[all4him]

Actually, I'm not that young. 32 and have four kids, he's 28 and has 2. Ok you can stop laughing now. Yes, a virgin mother. Or that's what I used to feel like before my bf. He's the one who taught me how to give blow jobs. So yeah I know I'm a little old to just be starting to learn about sex, especially considering the kids.

I know we need to do a lot more talking first. This subject only came up a few days ago. And the first time we talked it was a huge argument. He said I ruined the mood because I was worried about things like STD's and stuff. Sorry, I don't want one and before I would consider doing this we need to have the bases covered.

So what do you recommend for making sure it's right for both of us. Like I said earlier, I'm open to the idea so that's not an issue. How do we get past the roadblocks that are in our path. I read a lot of the threads that deal with seperating sex from our love and relationship, I guess my question is how do you do that? Him being turned on is a major turn on for me, and I know this would do it for him. And I do want to try it and see what it's like. I think there is a definite possibility that I would enjoy it as well, not just for his sake.

The trust issues definitely have to be dealt with first. (1) I think the issues from the past would remanifest themselves in this type of situation if we don't work them out completely first. (2) I think those issues would also the ruin what could be a very enjoyable experience. I won't do it unless I'm certain that neither of us would hold the experiences against each other in the future.

Jealousy is another thing. Ok, how can a person not be jealous when someone else is touching their mate? He says it would be a turn on to see me with someone else. For me I think it would be a turn on to have him watching. But I don't understand how it could be a turn on for him to see that. And I don't think it would be a very comfortable feeling for me to see him with someone else. I know I can't expect him to watch me with someone else yet tell him he can't touch another woman. That wouldn't be fair. And if I am with another guy, I don't want my bf to just watch either. I want him involved. But could I do that with him and another female? So many questions..... What can I do to lose these inhibitions once we are sure the trust issues are over with? It all boils down to he's ready right now (no, he's not pressuring me, matter of fact he's pretty much dropped the subject. I'm the one who keeps bringing it back up), but me, well my mind is, but my heart is still saying "no, it's wrong to be with someone else."

To be honest, I even think I let the trust thing stand between us on this out of fear of the unknown. I'm not even sure it's a real issue anymore. Am I just using it as a crutch? Why? Especially since, as I said, I'm intrigued by the idea. So how do I get past the fear. Do I just jump right in and hope I don't sink?

[all4him]

Ok, just read something Alura posted in "am i ready?"

"We think y'all are on the right track, HippieChick! You've made some good, solid decisions.

We're not clubbers, but there is one in Tulsa and I'm sure y'all could go there, watch and play with each other. I'd think you might find a bunch of couples doing the same thing.

Two couples making love with their spouses in the same room or bed is called "soft swinging." There are lots of folks who do only that, and some full-swappers who are willing to soft-swap from time to time.

Hang around on the board with us, though. We've come to like you.

Alura"

With the issues we (or I) have, do you think this type of situation would be a safe way to start? At least until I'm more comfortable? Or should we not do anything until we're ready for everything? Sorry, I know it's kind of stupid for a woman my age to be asking people she doesn't know about stuff like this that's so personal. Just very confused on everything right now. Thanks again.

[BradAndJanet]

I don't think that jumping right in would be a good thing while you're still confused about how you feel. Take Vegas Lee's advice and do a lot more thinking and talking with your boyfriend before you do anything at all.

Your concerns are valid and I'm a bit worried that he'd try to gloss over your fears about STDs and the like. Don't do this just for him or before you're sure you're ready. You will live to regret it; we've seen that many times here.

There's nothing wrong with telling us your personal thoughts. That's what we're here for (who else can you tell?) and you're safely anonymous. Swinging is a huge step in a relationship and you should get all the advice you can.

-B

[all4him]

thanks you guys. Guess only time will tell if I'll ever be able to open up. We talked a lot last night and both of us were looking at every website we could find. We spent a lot of time linking each other to the pages we were on individually. I asked about starting off with a situation like what I quoted from Alura and if he would be ok with that. He said when I'm ready we'll start however I would be comfortable. That was very encouraging. But I think I'm still going to wait a while. We have a couple of issues to deal with and get through first. After our issues are straightened thenit will be time to play. I'm ready to start with the soft-swinging now, just not going to til the issues are fixed. I know myself too well and I would end up holding it over his head: "Well, I did this for you so you need to do this for me." Not the way I really feel, cause the soft stuff is exciting for me, not just him. But I would still try and use it to get my way in an argument. So now it's just a matter of time and patience to fix the rest.

You guys have been great at offering advice and I appreciate all of it. While we're working at the other issues, I'll be visiting ya'll a bunch. "Research" you know. I wanna know as much as possible to make an informed decision. When it does happen I'll let you know how it goes, just no gory details. Sorry. facelick

[intuition897]

Sounds like you're approaching swinging cautiously. Good for you!! I'm the same way as you are; as my signature line says Fear is the symptom, knowledge is the cure. When I'm freaked out about something, the first thing I do is Google it. At least then I know what I'm dealing with. Swinging is something that too many people take much too lightly. It can be light and fun, but it should definitely be respected as something that can wreak havoc on a relationship. Your concerns are valid. And BTW, there's NO need to apologize to anyone for being concerned about STDs, etc. While we consider ourselves a relatively low-risk and conscientious group, STD transmission - or rather the prevention thereof - is something that responsible swingers educate themselves about, and take precautions for.

Addressing your question about separating love and sex, and being able to watch your partner with someone else...
I think people use the word 'jealousy' as a catch-all term for whatever negative feelings they happen to have when they perceive a threat to their relationship. I don't like to do that. Instead, picture your partner in the throes of ecstasy with some other woman... How does it make you feel? And you can't say jealous. Use other words: angry, furious, enraged, vengeful, hurt, betrayed, confused, sad, scared, aroused, fascinated, amused, disgusted...etc. Maybe it's unpleasant, but do it anyway. You really need to get in touch with what you're feelings are and give them a name. And be sure that you've named them correctly. Then, once you've got your list of emotions, start picking apart exactly why you feel that way. It might be good to start with the emotion that comes through the strongest. They're all interlinked and cause each other to exist. So let's say it's fear. Why are you afraid? What are you afraid of? That he will forget about me; that he will compare me to her; that I will no longer be enough for him; that she will take him away from me. Work through your list and share your conclusions with your b/f. This is his opportunity to address your fears and concerns, so make sure you schedule some time for this talk and don't trivialize its importance.

I think the one thing that lingers most strongly is the idea that sex is the be-all-end-all of a marriage or relationship, and that if one person has sex outside of that relationship, the relationship is automatically voided. This sort of revolves around the 'rule' that you can't have your cake and eat it too. That being involved in a long term relationship requires a sacrifice. Namely sex. We swingers still make sacrifices, but instead of sacrificing sex - which we actually embrace as a vital and wonderful part of each other's personalities - we sacrifice our socially granted 'right' to demand sexual exclusivity of our partner as a condition of remaining in the relationship with him or her. Instead, we give him or her the opportunity to choose where they want to be; they don't have to leave the relationship just because they want to have sex with someone else. Sort of like setting free the proverbial wild creature into its natural environment (because caging it seems criminal), and if it returns to you it's yours. If it doesn't then it never was.

Bottom line is that separating love and sex is simply recognizing, and believing in your heart, that sex is not what glues your relationship together. Any other woman can offer him sex, just the same as you can. Damn good sex, too. Why does this bother you? Why did he choose you in the first place? Out of all the women he could be with - that also could offer him some pretty good sex - he chose you. Why? After you solve this riddle, you can watch your b/f bonk Pamela Anderson's brains out and enjoy the view. Some snot-nosed little bimbo with Playboy-perfect measurements could step up to you and challenge you to a fuck-off: winner gets your man. You could accept without blinking an eye and think three things: 1: Jeez, what a bitch...lol...she's not gonna like the way this turns out, 2: Woo-hoo for b/f!, and 3: I sure hope for b/f's sake that she's as good a lay as she boasts to be. The threat of sex no longer hover like an anvil over your head.

Anyhoo, I'll end my sermon here. We all wish you luck as you explore things here on the board and in your relationship. Hope I've helped a little.

[Sunswept]

Originally Posted by intuition897

...Anyhoo, I'll end my sermon here...

Jeez, I am looking forward to more sermons. What a totally awesome post! This deserves a sticky.

[Alura]

Sunswept wrote:

Jeez, I am looking forward to more sermons. What a totally awesome post! This deserves a sticky.

Absolutely, Intuition! I had to pry Mrs. Alura away from her laptop and let her read it. Beautiful!

Mr. Alura

[wtxcpl]

Intuition,
Im blown away! No really, that reply should be stuck at the top of this forum.
I really like the "challenge to a fuck-off" analogy.

[twoplayful2]

Think I will change all future counseling referals to Intuition from now on! Great post!

all4him, I'm also extremely impressed with you (and all others who come this way) making the choice to learn instead of making a reaction from what little information you had before. It's pretty cool to see people looking for more information instead of simply being afraid of the unknown (this includes your own feelings).

[all4him]

Intuition, thank you for all that. That has probably been the most helpful advice I've found. It's really making me think. Gotta figure out what's causing the jealousy thing. Never dealt with it before. My philosophy has always been "if you can get him from me, you can have him cuz he's not worth my time." For some reason this relationship is different. Maybe because I'm getting older and the fear of growing old alone. Not sure. But definitely need tofigure that part out, need to analyze and define the actual emotions, as you stated.
As much as I am still into the idea of doing this with him, right now it's on hold. We have a few other issues we're dealing with. I have learned one thing in a recent argument though. Don't threaten him with screwing someone else. He made me very angry the other night and kept bringing up my ex. I told him if he brought him up or accused me one more time that I would just go f**k my ex. He told me go ahead. I said why? you wanna watch? should i make sure we do it on the balcony? Of course I only said it to make him as angry as I was, but later after we both calmed down he told me that me talking about that and "offering" to let him watch just turned him on. Note to self: don't attempt to make him angry by suggesting sex with someone else and allowing him to watch.
Anyway, once everything else is worked out, I plan to take him to a swingers club here in town, maybe just to watch, maybe try a little soft swing. We'll play it by ear (or other body parts) and see. I want to say thank you to all who have offered adviced or even just read my post and empathized. It's a wonderful feeling to have such a great support system here when ya'll don't even know me from adam. I'll keep ya'll posted on the outcome of our little voyage into new territory. And I'll keep checking back for more posts.
[b]Intuition: Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by all4him

Intuition: Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Hey NP, all4him. I'm just happy if I'm of some help to others.

Originally Posted by all4him

I have learned one thing in a recent argument though. Don't threaten him with screwing someone else. He made me very angry the other night and kept bringing up my ex. I told him if he brought him up or accused me one more time that I would just go f**k my ex. He told me go ahead. I said why? you wanna watch? should i make sure we do it on the balcony? Of course I only said it to make him as angry as I was, but later after we both calmed down he told me that me talking about that and "offering" to let him watch just turned him on. Note to self: don't attempt to make him angry by suggesting sex with someone else and allowing him to watch.

This part of your post just made me smile. That was maybe the most startling thing I'd learned on our journey: you can't use sex as a weapon anymore. It's amazing. We're all so used to threatening each other with sex with others - and we do it SOOO subtly - that we don't even realize we're doing it. Ever had a fight, wake up the next morning still mad and then dress to kill as you head off to work? You know, the whole nine yards, matching black lace bra and thong, or maybe stockings and garter belt under a sexy skirt? Perfume, hair, makeup, paint the toenails... You don't even realize you're doing it, but somewhere underneath it all, you're still mad and you're getting even by getting sexual attention from other men...or women. You can see the question in his eyes as you leave for work, and you think, "Good! Let him sit and wonder." But after you've openend Pandora's Box, you can't do that anymore. He just shouts as you leave the door, "I want all the juicy details when you get hoooome!"