Not sure if I am ready to swing

[hippiechick]

I am very new to this thought. my husband has been dropping hints lately. He always says that he is joking when he thinks that I might be hurt, but I know that he isn't. I realize that my fears are normal but I would like to know how to get over them. Some of these fears are will he find someone better? Am I not enough anymore? Why does he want to have some one eles if I am? I have agreed that I would like to go to a club for instance, but just to watch, and be watched. We have been married for 8 years and have a child, so for a while we had a lot of what I call "bathroom sex", that is we have to hide to keep little eyes from woundering in in the instance a nightmare occurs or she won't go to sleep. But all in all I think we have a very good sex life. So why does he want this? He has agreed that watching sounds like fun. He doesn't pressure me at all, and says you must seperate love and sex for this, but if it is going to hurt me in anyway than there is no question in what he wants, me, because he loves me and wouldn't hurt me and no sex is worth his love(me). But it still stings a little. Also, what if I down the road, decide to try another couple(I think that we should at least both have fun) and I can't handle this picture of he with this other woman, what do I do and will this offend the others, I don't want to hurt anyone. Has this ever happened? How do you know when your ready? Will the hesitation ever go away? And what if later after we've been at this for a while one of us decides to stop (which I realize wouldn't happen) how would this effect us? If your other so stop would you be ok or upset? And when is it to far, as for say you cant get off with out others help? And is it wrong to be upset? I see sex as an intimat thing that my husband and I share, and I realize that it must be mutal and you have made a very adult decision, but if I give away the most intamate thing between us then where do we go from there? I have so many questions that neither of us can anserw, can any one help?

[intuition897]

Welcome to the board hippiechick!

Reading your post was just like deja vu. I was about 5 years into my marriage when I had all of the same questions. Mr. intuition approached me, asking me to have a look at a website (adult friend finder) and wanted to know what I thought about it. To be honest, I was a little hurt. At the time, I felt much the same way you do. Things changed dramatically in the past 5 years (we've been married 11 years now), especially the past 2.

I'll try to answer a few of your questions, but ask anyone on the board and they'll tell you I tend to talk a lot.. lol So I shall try to be concise. You're getting advice, here, from someone for whom swinging is a terrific fit. It doesn't work for everyone, but I'll try explaining my view of it.

Originally Posted by hipppichick

So why does he want this? He has agreed that watching sounds like fun. He doesn't pressure me at all, and says you must seperate love and sex for this, but if it is going to hurt me in anyway than there is no question in what he wants, me, because he loves me and wouldn't hurt me and no sex is worth his love(me). But it still stings a little...will he find someone better? Am I not enough anymore? Why does he want to have some one eles if I am?

It sounds like your hubby is coming at this from the right angle: no pressure, he obviously loves you, and is willing to deny himself this pleasure to spare your feelings. That is all very good and necessary. He is not asking you to prostitute yourself in any way. He's not trying to put you in harm's way or belittle you. He's giving you the opportunity to take charge of your own sexuality... and hoping that you will eventually offer him the same. There is always a risk of losing your partner's to someone else, whether you swing or not. I say there's less risk in swinging than not, because when you swing, there is no 'grass is greener on the other side'; hell, you're playing in the neighbour's yard! So he gets the benefit of finding out that grass is pretty much just grass wherever you go without having to hire a moving truck to find out. Then once that riddle is solved, we naturally start to think well, if I'm not staying with my spouse for the great sex, then what is it that does keep me here with her/him? And that's the scary part I think. If you've based your marriage on how good the sex is - and nothing more - then you'll find that there are many people out there who can offer just as much to your spouse as you can. Maybe more. What do you have to offer your spouse that no one else can?

He's right: you have to separate love and sex. This is not as horrible as it sounds. Separating the two does not mean that they are less for having been separated. Quite the opposite, in our experience. They are two different animals altogether, and can exist very positively independant of one another. Love can exist without sex; ask any couple whose sex lives have been affected by a handicap such as paraplegia (sp?). Likewise, sex can exist very happily without requiring deep committment. Your fears, I think, are based on the common idea that sex is love, the idea that sexual attention (or lack of it) indicates how much one person loves another person. The fact is sex is a bodily function just like eating or sleeping. We use it as a powerful communication tool, but that is all. Making love to your husband or wife is the closest we can get to union of souls here on earth, but I'm guessing you don't have a deep emotional experience every time; sometimes it's just silly-sex! And what about masturbation? Are you communing with yourself? Nah, it just feels good. The body is stimulated, and it responds. There is a world of difference between having sex (with friends) and making love (to your spouse). Sex is the method, [love, friendship, hatred, anger, pity, indifference, etc] is the message. You asked "Am I not enough anymore?" You are enough. But the human body is a highly sexual thing. It's rigged to respond to outside stimuli (thank God!) and that doesn't stop just because you love someone or because you have a ring on your hand. The fact that he can become aroused by other women (or men?) only means one thing: he's healthy. It may seem like you have a million and one questions right now, but once you get some of these basics sorted out, seeing him with another woman won't be a problem; it'll be a turn-on!

Swinging is at its best when you are both at your most vulnerable to one another. It is a gift you give with a generous and open heart, and a gift that should be graciously accepted. It is not something you ask for yourself, nor does anyone have the right to demand it. It should never be taken for granted. It is you and your spouse each saying, "I no longer want to own your sexuality. It is yours to do with what you wish. I want to see you enjoying your life, being happy. I will no longer demand all of your sexual attention as a requirement of my staying with you." Or in other words, "Here is my still-beating heart on a silver platter. Please, please, please don't hurt me." It's the most frightening thing we can give to another person. It's like letting something wild out of a cage because it doesn't belong there. And all you can do is pray that you've taken good enough care of it, and that it loves you enough that it will keep returning to you. It is a wonderful feeling to know that you do not need leashes and cages in your relationship, but that your spouse is given a choice every single day...and chooses to spend his/her life with you.

Read lots and lots of posts on getting started. Search for keywords like 'nervous', 'worried', and 'why we swing'. Check out the FAQ and archives, as well as the section for new swingers. Your questions are some of the most common and there have been plenty of threads on all of them. Over and over you will hear "communication, communication, communication". There is no such thing as a concern or emotion too trivial to be discussed with one another. Talk about everything, especially if it's difficult to talk about! Be brave. Be honest.

Hmmm. So much for conciseness. :rollseyes

[Alura]

Intuition talks a lot, HippieChick, but she never uses one word too many.

Wonderful post, Intutition! Thank you!

Alura

[DBL D]

There may not be as many posts for your thread as you expected because Intuition so adquately gave you all the starting and ending issues as well as any of us could.

Beyond that however; You are not alone in your feelings about everything you've mentioned. We went through it and are still finding things don't go as smoothly as planned. One thing though...please don't do anything that you don't want to do. Don't start swinging unless you're ready to let yourself go. Never take one for the team. Be openminded...remember this is about fulfilling fantasies as much as anything. Let your partner have his and you have yours and then you have those you (hopefully) share.

Good luck and have fun.

Male D

[hippiechick]

Thank you all so much for the responce, and I too can talk to much. But what if it is not a fantacy of mine to be with another man or to see my huband with another woman? See, I do like to look, some guys and girls are hot!!! However, it has not realy occured to do them. Don't get me wrong I do sometimes wonder how they are diffrent from my husband and all that, but my mind always goes back to my husband and wanting him. I don't know if that makes sense, I wonder about sex, but I have no desire to do it with some one I don't know or love. Does anyone know what I am saying? And I know it is in a guys nature to want to do other girls and some times a girls nature, but I guess because it has not crossed my mind, I find it hard to understand why he does. I mean, I have all the degrees and took psycology and sociology and all that, I now how the mind works and know that it is easier for men to seperate the two, which is how so many men (and some times women) can cheat on there spouse but still love them very much. But the heart and the mind are two totaly diffrent organs and with me the heart over rules the mind some times, while I know most of the time my husbands penis has the brain power. So is it wrong to say no, if he loves me enough to not do it, shouldn't I love him enough to do it? And I realize you don't realy know untilll you try, but what if you get there and see them and realize you can't what then and how does that effect your marrige because you will always have that image in your mind, and every time you have sex you see him with her and you wounder if he is thinking of some one eles with you ( outside normal fantacy). I just don't know what to do, I want to try, I think I might find I like it but once your there and certain things are done and you were wrong, what then? And is this cheating my husband out of something great, and will he later resent me for holding him back? I want to give him every thing.

[VegasLee]

Originally Posted by hippiechick

I want to give him every thing.

When this is also for YOU then it is the right time. Until then you are going to regret anything you do.

This has to be about both of you and never just one of you.

Swinging is NOT for everyone. Not everyone wants sex as a hobby. No everyone can take their heart out of sex.

Only you can decide when the time is going to be right if at all.

[hippiechick]

Then I guess the next question should be, what about him, and if we just watched does that usually lead to wanting to touch, and is there any suggerstion on how to approch this, with out just shooting him down? I guess it might be helpfull there if I say that I have never been with any one eles but my husband, I was a virgin untill him, and I do think I might like it but what if I try and don't then how to handel that? Because I truly belive you never know until you try, the though dosn't repulse me, but if I think I'm ready and I'm not, how would you get rid of the thought, and how to tust your husband not to want what he can't have? Not to say he has never cheated or done any thing to hurt me, he never has and I don't think he ever would. But once the tast is there what then? I know these are all hypethetical questions, but I just dont know. Has any one been in this situation or know any one who has? Also what if you do it and are realy ok with it at the time, I mean I scrwed the husband, but later you regret it when the sex hormones are not there any more. You do a lot of things in the heat of the moment you wouldn't normally do.

[DBL D]

Thanks for expressing your feelings, hippiechick!

As far as having a "taste", well, I have the taste, let me tell you; but I have also been the one who asked for us to quit the lifestyle because I didn't like the turmoil Fem D was going through and also what we went through as a couple. Just wasn't worth it. True, we have learned a lot about each other. The sex between us is just as special. (I didn't want the lifestyle that much). Turns out that she really does want to explore the world of sex, just for sex, but has only recently been able to really feel like she has turned the corner. I really feel that she is ready to go for it without reservation. It's taken 2 years to get to where we are now. Seems like forever to me. We do both feel very differently about what we want from the lifestyle, but for now we are trying our best to let things flow. Of course, every once in awhile I have to get involved and screw things up.

Give yourself time to examine your real deep down feelings. He's giving you an opportunity for you to handle your sex life in a much different way than you had ever planned on. Relish the idea and if your husband loves you he will be happy to just focus on you two. Like I, and others, have said...you must want to do this for yourself, not for your husband. Hopefully he really understands that as well.

Male D

[twobears]

HI thanks all of the questions you have put into words so much emtional feeling, which is hard for some of us, like me. My hubby and I are new to the lifestyle and even oh I want it for myself I am still working at letting myself learn about me, I never saw myself as a good sexy woman. I have lots of pain and mistreatment from family and ex. I have been married to a wonderful man who over the years with him loving me at my worse, it is still hard for me to accept that he will never leave me and trusting is hard for me. We are reading on the board here and books on swinging. I want to let myself out of that cage, that was very helpful to me, by the way. We have not had many good experiences here in Alaska but we are learning from our mistakes and learning to take our time. I fine that I am more comfortable with a couple if I can have some play with my hubby and the other female. This board has keep me from trying to go pass that comfort zone, my self esteem is not as strong as I would like it to be but I am working on it. This pass year I would not give anything in the world for even with all the crying I have done as I learned about myself ,I still would not change it for anything, the love I see on my husband face is great. It was my idea to try to get into 3some's FMF and now I am able to let myself feel what comes natural to me and that is enjoying seeing my hubby have oral sex with a partner and I giving her pleasure also. I bet you cann't picture yourself doing that.lol My husband and I are so much more open with each other and I do trust him, the feeling left that have to go is just from my poor self image. Anyone got any ideas on how to bet this last, hope it is last, gate I have to go through, self-esteem how can we improve on our own? I will re-read this many times to let it all get into my mind and heart. We have talked we are not sure how we will feel after our first full swap, we enjoy solf swing, and same room very much. I still get nervous oh at the last few moments, I guess I was willing and really for a full swap and the man refused me, he was enjoying watching my hubby give pleasure to his wife, she was really enjoying it.lol My hubby took care of me oh, you will experience all kinds of things. We have decided that if a couple are not comfortable in talking to us about what they want in sexual play then we will not play. Good Luck, and read read read and talk talk talk, boy we were up most of the winter talking late, a good thing to do in winter in Alaska.lol Thanks everyone.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by hippiechick

Then I guess the next question should be, what about him, and if we just watched does that usually lead to wanting to touch, and is there any suggerstion on how to approch this, with out just shooting him down? I guess it might be helpfull there if I say that I have never been with any one eles but my husband, I was a virgin untill him, and I do think I might like it but what if I try and don't then how to handel that? Because I truly belive you never know until you try, the though dosn't repulse me, but if I think I'm ready and I'm not, how would you get rid of the thought, and how to tust your husband not to want what he can't have? Not to say he has never cheated or done any thing to hurt me, he never has and I don't think he ever would. But once the tast is there what then? I know these are all hypethetical questions, but I just dont know. Has any one been in this situation or know any one who has? Also what if you do it and are realy ok with it at the time, I mean I scrwed the husband, but later you regret it when the sex hormones are not there any more. You do a lot of things in the heat of the moment you wouldn't normally do.

It's true, you can't know something for certain without trying it. This is one of those doors you simply have to walk through to fully understand what any of us are talking about. Right now, it seems out of context to you. And having been a virgin before your husband, it might seem that much more difficult to let go of the idea of "saving yourself" for one person and one person only. Although if you do decide to try swinging, your husband gets to be there to see you lose your virginity (or sorts) all over again when you experience sexual intimacy with someone else. An exciting prospect for all those involved

All I know is YES, the first little while there is a steep learning curve. I like to say it's a contact sport in more than one way; you can count on getting hurt now and then. But as time goes by, you start realizing that nearly all the hurts are self-inflicted...so you learn to stop hurting yourself by imagining things that really aren't there. No, he's not laughing at you behind your back, no she's not actually able to use sex to lure your husband's heart away from you, no he hasn't forgotten you, no he is not more attracted to other women than to you... on and on. One problem we often have is finding partners we are attracted enough to to want to swing with. Mr. and I are each other's type to a T, and although it's lots of fun to have sex with other people, the best sex happens after we get home. The rest is more like foreplay. It's when you get home to the privacy of your own bed that the real magic of it happens. Sex with other people only punctuates the closeness and uniqueness of your relationship with your husband. You realize that there is an emotional barrier that only your own partner can get past with you, and he/she is the only one who knows you so intimately.

PS>> Do a search on here for 'cheating'. You'll find I've posted on that topic a LOT. Most people here on the board have very strong feelings about the differences between cheating and swinging.

[couple_ps]

Hi there,

You have gotten very nice replies to your post. I am just going to tell you a bit about our experience.

When I first introduced the idea to her, she thought I was crazy. Deep down she thought I just wanted to sleep with other women with her blessings. I never insisted on it. I would like to point out, however, swinging has never made me wanting to leave my wife for another woman. If swinging has had an "influence" on our life, it has made us deeper in love with each other.

We started only when she was ready (I explained in details in my introduction). We also did not know how we would react to see the other with another partner. But its true that this is something you need to try to understand it. For us, love and communication was always there. We were actually surprised how much we enjoyed the moment when side by side, we doing it.

The whole night, I could not keep my hands off her, we were like a new couple.

One more thing, when we played with "virgin couples" we always tell them, if there is something wrong, something that you are not comfortable with, just tell us. Even if we have to stop everything, we will be fine with it. Others can correct me if I am wrong, but everyone has the right to say "Stop, I am not comfortable with this or that"

[hippiechick]

I just wanted to say thanks, you guys have all been great. I think for now we are just going to take it slow, I don't want to do any thing that I can't handel. I do think I might be ready later, but for now I think the thought would hurt to much and where it might be ok later down the road, I think seeing my husband with another woman and even me with another man might be something I can't get passed. Some day when we are older I might be more secure. And I have to realize that we have a child who is only 6, and I think I should be SURE even for her, she deserves a happy mom and dad. But I defenatly would like to go and watch and even be watched. Is there a lot of people who do this even for a while? I do find it erotic to have some one screwing right beside us and we both get a veiw of others at play close up. I am into exploreing, I don't want to be an old married couple who have sex as a requirement instead of a loving act, wheter it be makeing love or just plain f#*king !! (ha ha). Which you can do even with your love, and is sometimes more fun! But I do want to say you all have helped me greatly, and if I had not talked with you all I might have jumped into something that would later result in a unhappy marriage if a marriage at all. So THANKS.

[Alura]

We think y'all are on the right track, HippieChick! You've made some good, solid decisions.

We're not clubbers, but there is one in Tulsa and I'm sure y'all could go there, watch and play with each other. I'd think you might find a bunch of couples doing the same thing.

Two couples making love with their spouses in the same room or bed is called "soft swinging." There are lots of folks who do only that, and some full-swappers who are willing to soft-swap from time to time.

Hang around on the board with us, though. We've come to like you.

Alura

[Mike and Jan]

Hey, just wanted to add one thing to what everyone else has posted. You said;

(So is it wrong to say no, if he loves me enough to not do it, shouldn't I love him enough to do it?)

Totally wrong reason and would just lead to so many more problems! Perhaps you could agree to being open to the idea if you both are in the right situation, at the right moment, and, most importantly, with the right people.

I think if you found a couple just like yourselves, with the same desires and apprehensions, it might be rewarding to both of you to exchange thoughts. There are lots of couples around with the same fears and desires and, after you become friends..., who knows?

[hippiechick]

You are all right, as of right now it would be for the wrong reasons. I am open minded and willing to see how it goes, who knows later he might be wondering what kind of monster he created! But there is so much we still could try with just the two of us, and even though we've been together 8 years we are still newly weds in a way. (Know what I mean). There is still so much to explore and do and when we've done that and I ready, I might release the beast with in, until then I can keep him busy and so drained he won't have enough to share any way!