Interested but not sure swinging is morally right

[twoferfun69]

Very well spoken Intuition.
Some of you have read my other posts concerning my soon to be Mrs. and the fun we have had.
We, like you suggested "discussed it to death" but our relationship overall has been that way. We talk about EVERYTHING. No subject is taboo, although some downright piss each other off, because we have differing opinions, but we feel that's ok too. We're allowed!
We had discussed this little by little as the months went by. Mrs was, and is, a bit more adventerous than I (and to think when we met I thought she was a prude.....whole 'nother story ) Finally we visited a club in another town. Nothing happened, but we became aware of what was going on. More discussion, decided where the limits where to be, then back to the club, joined a couple of "personals" sites, etc. Well, now.....dontchaknow we met a great couple at the club, kinda took us by the hand, and most of the limits went out the window but we, again, discussed it to death (and are still) and we are ok with what happened, and have revised our thought processes on the whole matter.
Now, in contrast, short version of what happened with my ex--- thought we were talking about it, but one of us was not being honest, and things got way out of hand. Accusations flew, "you pressured me", "I didn't want to do it anyway", etc. Through the actions of "non-truthfull" discussions, cheating/adultery went on, and things went down the tubes from there.
Basically what I am getting at is this:
1-no pressure
2-discussions must be honest, open, and ongoing
3-no pressure
4-relax, let happen what will
oh, did I mention, NO PRESSURE?
Enjoy yourself, but mostly, whether or not you find yourselves in this lifestyle, enjoy each other, and the honest and open communication that will most assuredly come from at least talking about opening this door.
Good luck and have fun!!

[J&C39466]

Thanks again guys&dolls for all your comments. I would like to address a statement that Intuition897 made in her response to me. She said that swinging is not cheating or adultery. How can you justify that answer when we've been taught all our lives that sex with anyone other than your spouse is wrong. The Bible even teaches that this is wrong. ( I know this is going to open a can of worms)

[DaveNSheila]

Originally Posted by J&C39466

Thanks again guys&dolls for all your comments. I would like to address a statement that Intuition897 made in her response to me. She said that swinging is not cheating or adultery. How can you justify that answer when we've been taught all our lives that sex with anyone other than your spouse is wrong. The Bible even teaches that this is wrong. ( I know this is going to open a can of worms)

It isn't cheating or adultery because you both are doing it together. There are no hidden lies there. You are both there participating in the act. In someways you are putting your relationship on hold and enjoying a moment of being single and dating again, after the moment is gone and the two of you are back together then you are continuing with your relationship. When you are with other people(however many at that moment) you all are consenting adults going into the situation with your eyes open as a couple yet in a way single. The part that you both get to work on from your statement now is the moral aspect of it. I hope that helps. D

[BradAndJanet]

Some people are always going to think that swinging is adultery. Can't help that I guess. It really comes down to what you believe, doesn't it?

How do I justify it? I don't believe most of what society thinks I should be taught, that's how.

-B

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by J&C39466

Thanks again guys&dolls for all your comments. I would like to address a statement that Intuition897 made in her response to me. She said that swinging is not cheating or adultery. How can you justify that answer when we've been taught all our lives that sex with anyone other than your spouse is wrong. The Bible even teaches that this is wrong. ( I know this is going to open a can of worms)

I can justify it because I don't feel the need to simply accept that something is right just because the rest of the world believes it. A lot of people thought the world was flat until they were proved wrong. As far as what the Bible says... YEAH, that is a whole 'nother can of worms. But since you asked, if you wanted to, you can find prophetic revelations in a phonebook. It's all a matter of interpretation and what you want to focus on. Personally, I believe the mallarky about sex with more than one partner being wrong was propaganda that was started by church leaders as a way to control people. If you forget everything you were taught by other people, and just read the thing with fresh eyes and an open mind and heart, you would see that God has no time for BS. People tend to sweat the small stuff, and He keeps trying to get them to see the bigger picture. Old testament or new, it's the same theme. Sex was not a big deal to Him. It's not bad. It's another function of the human body, and is pleasurable. As is being able to enjoy your food while eating, or being able to smell when it's going to rain. He made these things pleasant in order that we would enjoy them. When these gifts are abused, when we take them for granted or we disrespect them, that's when it becomes a problem. We can use sex recreatively without disrespecting it. I do not see why this is wrong. I mean, for crying out loud, God gave King Solomon over 700 wives as a gift. Just because he had the legalities taken care of, does that make it ok? Do you really think he had a deep spiritual connection with each and every one of them? Another example is when God told David (loosely paraphrased) "If you wanted more women, all you had to do was ask and I would've given you as many as you need. But instead, you took it upon yourself to kill this woman's husband because you wanted her." Again, sex was not the problem (he would've been given more women if he'd asked for them); it was David's integrity...or lack thereof. If you look, you'll see over and over again that any instance of adultery is accompanied by victimization of one form or another. Someone is being dishonoured or disrespcected. That is why adultery is wrong. In order for something to be wrong, it must negatively impact someone somehow. We are very careful to never allow what we do to negatively impact our relationship and we avoid knowingly involving ourselves with another couple whose relationship, we feel, would be negatively impacted by swinging. To us, that's just good citizenship. No, we're not necessarily our brothers' keepers, but we look out for others in this respect. If the other couple still chooses to go ahead with it, have at it! ...but it won't be with us.

[guitarlover]

Personally, my S.O. and I are swing virgins to this point. Last night, though, we explored a bit further by meeting a gentleman with whom we had corresponded over the past couple of months.
He was obviously experienced in the lifestyle, for over 20 years. We weren't planning on becoming intimate with him, actually. We were just seeking more information. My woman may taken the meeting to the next step if he had turned her on, but, simply put, he just didn't make her boat float. Although he talked about making sure that her pleasure was first on his mind, there was just things that he said that indicated otherwise. He seemed anxious to get his 'freak' on and indicated that many times during the conversation.
I can't put my finger directly on the whole thing, but, after visiting his place there was a 'seedy' factor that we both felt, and it made her feel uncomfortable. I fully understand her feelings.
Frankly, I wish that the meeting had been a better experience, but, this was the kind of meeting where she might decide that a swing experience is just not for her. I am hoping that she keeps an open mind, and will explore the lifestyle some more, because, I feel certain that there are other men and couples with whom we would click with under the right circumstances.
We will continue to move slowly but surely on this aspect of exploration. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the next encounter with people into the lifestyle will be more of what we are seeking...
You go slow too! Don't rush into something that you might regret later. I'm sure that if you find the right kind of people, the experience will be everything you hope for.
Good Luck!

[missbetty]

Hi board members,my name is J and I'm a married male. I've been exploring this web site for some time now and I'm finding your opinions and expertise very helpful. I've been interested in the thought of swinging for quite some time and have even had some deep discussions with my wife (C). One side of me says that this could possibly be fun and erotic,the other side of me says that this lifestyle is wrong. I have been wrestling with these thoughts over and over in my mind for a long time and at this point,still not sure.

Dear J, our situation is quite similar with yours in that, we are still at the 'thought' stage of our exploration of swinging. We are now at a stage where discussion is more about communication and learning more about each other than it is about making our first steps. So we cannot offer 'first-steps advice', but maybe part of our experience thus far will relate with what you and C are going through, or might be of help.

Wrestling between right or wrong:
Mr. L and i had been having ongoing discussions about intimacy, our relp, sex, fantasies, etc., when he tentatively mentionned he had long fantasized about sharing a 3some with either a M or F. I am definitely open to the idea. Talking to me about it was a big step, in that he said he'd always been struggling with guilt related to being caught between his sexual fantasies and what was 'morally right'. (He was raised with the Bible / i was not). I don't know the difference between right or wrong where faith is concerned but i do believe that, where two people love each other, where no harm is done to either or to others, doing what feels natural cannot be wrong. This is why 'acceptance' really became central to our discussion... in a way, by showing that i accepted and was supportive of his fantasies, he became more accepting of himself, and of having such fantasies. I think this helped him 'frame' and discuss them in a more positive way, and lessened the guilty feelings. Also making note of the difference between discussing fantasy and reality means we can talk openly about things without feeling pressure to move into action.

From fantasy to reality?
Fantasy is where we feel comfortable for the moment. Given the above, L and i are careful not to move too quickly. But we did find a good way to start testing our reaction to a real situation. We've decided to make our discussions 'more real' by discussing 'fantasy 3somes' by introducing M/F we meet or know in real life in the scenarios (as opposed to fictitious participants) - ie: 'what if we were to approach this person? how would you/we feel? how would we feel safe about it? limits, etc'. We found this to be a good way to test jealousy responses, how well we read each other's signals through a variety of situations, what we are comfortable with, finding out what we find attractive in other people, etc.

Key thing between us is that talk gets 'real' but 'action' doesn't, and this takes a lot of pressure off the two of us. And if our exploration never goes any further, then we will still feel immensily enriched, more supportive, and closer to each other as a result.

Good luck to the two of you! We wish you well...

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(On that note, L and i would just like to say that we are extremely thankful for the support to 'new swingers' and insights shared by all members of this board. Thank you all for being there!!!)