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  1. #16
    Just a hick Okie Alura's Avatar
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    Originally posted by 2neophytes
    So now I want to ask, if it is the case that men are big, hairy, and yucky, then why are all of us sleek, smooth, and sexy girls doing it with you guys?

    later,
    2N
    As my ol' Pappy used to say, 2N, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, Son." If something nice comes your way, don't ask why, just be grateful.

    Mr. Alura

  2. #17
    Registered phone bugs's Avatar
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    Not all men are hairy. I, the female, do not find men yucky. I have seen some women that are not your soft and cuddly kind. The question is still why women get to have sex with women and be excepted, but men having sex with men has a gay tag on it, not to be excepted.

    Hubby says women on women are reveared as highly desirable, men on men get the tag/considered as gay.
    Where's my purse?

  3. #18
    Swingers Board Addict Brit_Pair's Avatar
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    I'm not a psychologist, a behaviourist nor a sexual analyst, so this is definitely something of a pet theory. But I've always considered this issue with regards to the respective roles that 'masculinity' and 'femininity' play.

    Somewhere, almost certainly as a product of evolution, it's hardwired into us that men are meant to act in a 'masculine' way: i.e. hunter/killer/protector/provider. You know the sort of thing. And for some people (male **and** female), the sight or even the idea of two men "getting it on" flies in the face of that hardwired, traditional concept of 'manliness'. I also think that some men, confronted by their own desire for sex with other men, may find that desire to be threatening to their own sense of masculinity, and therefore threatening to their very identity.

    For some reason though, the same set of conflicting thoughts and emotions are not triggered by the sight or thought of two women "getting it on". And I think it has something to do with the way that such an act does not fly in the face of any hardwired concept we have about the female role. Female-female sex does not threaten a woman's femininity. In fact, it may even enhance it. Why that should be is a question for someone with a far more profound appreciation of this field than I.

    Now before anyone jumps on me from a great height, I am **not** repeat **not** suggesting that a man who enjoys sex with another man (either as part of a homosexual or bisexual relationship) is not masculine, or has surrendered his masculinity. Nor am I suggesting that all men with sexual desires for other men feel that their masculinity or identities are threatened. This is a pet theory about the role that hundreds of thousands of years of biological programming may play in the question of why male-male sex still remains something of a taboo even among a crowd as sexually enlightened as swingers, while female-female sex is positively eulogised about.

    Even if this theory has a degree of truth to it, I suspect it's just one element of what is an incredibly complex issue.
    It's not going to be an orgy. It's a toga party . . .

  4. #19
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    Originally posted by phone bugs
    men having sex with men has a gay tag on it, not to be excepted.
    We would agree that bi men are often labled as "gay", and are not publicly accepted in most swinging circles. However, we also believe that most of the swinging world underestimates the number of bi males out there. Our experience has shown that many supposedly straight males will privately tell us that they are indeed bi. The number of e mails and replies we get to our ads from men who's profile states that they are straight, but then tell us they are bi, or bi curious, is truly amazing. We also go to adult theaters on occasion, and have witnessed a high percentage of the men there engaging in some type of m/m contact. We've also observed that many of these men are wearing wedding rings, so we would assume that they are "straight" out in the real world. While married men seeking a sexual thrill (cheating) isn't what we consider part of the swinging lifestyle, it does indicate that the number of men interested in bi activity is higher than a lot of us would believe.
    People live in cities, but people are alive in the woods.

  5. #20
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    Default mm vs ff

    after getting 570 on the kinky test thought id chip in. it depends if your in a 3some and things are hot i dont have a problem with playing with both people. never done a mmm and wont but if its mmf its ok. ive gone down on her while hes fucking her and he pops out ill do both, or let her watch. seems to get everyone hotter. shes sucked both our dicks, if hes fucking her ill work on her clit then slip a finger or 2 in with his dick..

  6. #21
    Just a hick Okie Alura's Avatar
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    Well, y'all can see how naive I am at this advanced age. I thought bi sex with a male did necessarily mean anal intercourse.

    When I was licking Mrs. Alura's clit while another guy was fucking her, I had no idea that was a bi act. I admit to being a bit uncomfortable when his balls were covering my nose but it was mostly because I was suffocating. Once we turned around, and I could breathe, it worked out pretty well.

    When Mrs. Alura was trying to stuff two cocks in her mouth at the same time, that didn't seem bi to me either.

    Thanks for the education, y'all. Should I go change our profile to "bi"?

    In all seriousness, I was doing these things for Mrs. Alura, not for the other man. Both his pleasure and mine were immaterial to me at the time, and I think that's the key to assessing one's bi-ness. But hell, I'm just a hick Okie.

    Mr. Alura

  7. #22
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    Wink My few pennies worth . . . .

    I know you were joshin' us, Mr. Alura, about changing y'all's profile to bi. I have seen many profiles that define the gentleman as straight but not homophobic - perhaps even the added phrase of "not fearful of things that go bump in the night". I believe what you refer to is what is being aluded to in that wording. It would be difficult, I think, for two gentlemen to be attending to one lady's pleasure without their being some incidental contact.

    I think the profiles that state the gentleman's reaction to bisexuality as "NO WAY, NO HOW, HELL NO, NOT EVER" are probably reflective of those who might get highly distressed at the non-intended but unavoidable encounter.

    I agree with jcbicouple's statement that an underestimate of bimales exists. IMO, a contributing factor is the lack of honesty of a goodly number of bimales with their wives/significant others. I have heard some harsh criticism of bimales from men who enjoy the activity themselves, odd as that may be.

    This would seem to bear out Lord Brit's theory of a perceived/implied lack of masculinity being part of the reason for the difference in how MM activity is generally viewed. Whether the variance is equitable, just, fair, or right doesn't seem to matter - - it does exist.

    But views vary M to F in other areas too. For instance, a young man who gets a lot of action is viewed by many to be "studly". A young lady who has an active and varied sex life is viewed by many in a quite uncomplimentary manner. Some activities are just going to be gauged differently by gender.

    I am not supporting those viewpoints, just acknowledging them.

  8. #23
    Just a hick Okie Alura's Avatar
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    Well, Mrs. Wrnakedru, I think both you and Lord Brit made some very good points. To me, though, sex with a male is just something I'm not interested in. I don't know why. Maybe it was because I was raised by a cowboy. Gays are always saying, "It's just the way I am." I'll buy that and reply, "I'm just a hick heterosexual."

    I wasn't threatened when in close proximity to the guy we had the threesome with, nor was I "turned on" by his presence. He was a big help in giving Mrs. Alura a fun experience, though.

    I was, indeed, joshing about changing our profile. HeeHee.

    Mr. Alura

  9. #24
    Has Left the Building yawanna's Avatar
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    to Mr. Alura for stating just exactly what the deal is.

    MFM events..there is GONNA be some MM contact. No need to freak...stuff happens

    wrnakedru posted:

    IMO, a contributing factor is the lack of honesty of a goodly number of bimales with their wives/significant others.
    and with respect I disagree. Many years of meeting men, both as a single and as a couple, lead me to see otherwise.
    The men who some label as bi aren't. Two men and me in a bed? Two couples and me in a bed? Many couples on mattresses and me? I'm sorry...certain genitals are gonna bump.

    I don't identify as 'bi' myself but I have played with women..proximity, in the moment, etc. etc. Same can happen for men.

    A better distinction/label would be 'not homophobic and won't scream if 'parts' bump during a DP'.

    Mr. Alura....were you thinking of Clinton's definition of sex?

  10. #25
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    Unhappy To clarify -

    I may have not expressed myself in a clear fashion. I did not, do not, and would not deem a gentleman as bi [any more than he would define himself] simply because he doesn't get the heebie-geebie screaming meemies if/when a portion of another man's genital area comes into some contact with him.

    Yawanna, the quote of me you cited refers to several men I have known over the years who have pursued separate one on one activity with other men. The wife is certainly aware of that activity which occurs in her presence and/or as a part of couple/threesome/group/orgy activity. But those I speak of are those who, when the opportunity arises, seek activity with oft times total strangers when their wife is either out of town or occupied for a sufficient length of time for them to make contact and schedule a one on one [sometimes more] encounter for themselves.

    I have heard some men refer to this pursuit, and at the same time tell of their wife's diminishing sex drive. Others cite a certainty of the wife's lack of understanding for the interest he has - perhaps even believe she finds it distasteful. Whatever their justification or rationale, they are not being honest about themselves.

    And yes, I feel it is in an effort to keep that portion of themselves well guarded and private that they often are quite negatively vocal in front of others when male bisexuality is discussed.

    There are many profiles that deem a male as straight when that in fact is not the case. I do not think that is a deliberate attempt to mislead anyone, but rather an acknowledgement of the general lack of acceptance of male bisexuality. And often, too, a reluctance to become totally defined by something that is perhaps mostly a 'right time, right circumstances, right folks involved' kind of thing.

  11. #26
    Swingers Board Addict EternallySingle's Avatar
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    Default Its a simple concept, really

    Men in our culture have been taught to be hard, forceful, and dominant. Sex usually requires one person, at least temporarily, to become soft, receptive, and submissive. That can eat away at a man's sense of worth and, in the end, make him doubt not only his masulinity but his role as a person in our society. And thats all it is. Our society has taught us men don't do that.

    I knew three men from a small community in Brazil who laughed at the fact that I wouldn't join them and their girlfriends in a mutual masturbation party. Where they grew up, the terms homosexuality, bisexuality, and heterosexuality didn't exist until the 1940's when missionaries tried Christianizing them. They simply believed sex was sex and as long as noone was forced, everything was enjoyable.

    I didn't join them, but it made me think hard about the labels we put on things. But lets think about this. Not too many years ago two men who met and hugged each other would have been considered "not quite manly", but now it is somewhat more acceptable.
    "Style is not lusting after somone because they are cool. Style is loving yourself till everyone else does too."

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  12. #27
    Has Left the Building yawanna's Avatar
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    To provide my own clarification, I was expressing my respectful disagreement that there are many bi men who hide that fact from their wives and SO's or other sexual partners, in tandem or not with their primary partner. That hasn't been my experience or understanding from my encounters as a longtime single women and then as a participant for many years now in this lifestyle.

    Any and all men that I/we met with, and perhaps will meet with, aren't in this for bi activities. Bumps happen as you said and they don't freak out about that. They are in fact more open sexually than men in the general population, and have more opportunities/chances of coming in closer contact sexually with other men, during the course of an encounter involving a woman or women.

    But perhaps you were speaking of the general population and not those involved in swinging?
    Last edited by yawanna; 03-26-2004 at 11:33 PM.

  13. #28
    Just a hick Okie Alura's Avatar
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    Originally posted by yawanna
    to Mr. Alura for stating just exactly what the deal is.
    Thanks, Yawanna.

    Mr. Alura....were you thinking of Clinton's definition of sex?
    Actually, Clinton hadn't crossed my mind. But don't forget, that definition of sex wasn't Clinton's, it was the court's. , yourself!

    Mr. Alura

  14. #29
    Only slightly cracked... BradAndJanet's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Alura
    ... I thought bi sex with a male did necessarily mean anal intercourse.
    ...
    I'd say it covers a whole range of M/M interaction, from kissing, mutual masturbation, oral sex and anal intercourse. While I have never had a strong desire to kiss another man or engage in anal sex, I did enjoy giving and receiving oral sex in the context of a foursome. Part of that was that I knew that one of the ladies involved enjoyed watching, but I won't say that I didn't enjoy it myself.

    I guess that makes me bi, or a bit more than just 'bi-curious'. I'd probably do it again, given the right circumstances, but it's not something I would particularly seek out either.

    Like many have said, when there are four or more involved, things are gonna go 'bump' occasionally, and that does not bother me in the slightest. One thing for sure though, I'd never do anything that would make anyone (male or female) uncomfortable.

    -B
    "If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain
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  15. #30
    Purveyors of Perviness ionsawmill's Avatar
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    Default JBICouple

    I agree that there are more bisexual men in the swinging lifestyle than people would want to believe. I was told, when I started investigating the lifestyle, that I should keep my bisexuality to myself. I decided to be honest and open about my sexuality, even if it meant that we never find anyone compatible. How many men entering the lifestyle are willing to make that kind of commitment? Instead, they pass as straights and either suppress their bisexual tendancies or live a double life. Odds are that if you've been in swinging for long, you've had sex with a bisexual man, whether you knew it or not.

    One of our unfulfilled fantasies is double vaginal insertion. I can't imagine any "very str8" man rubbing his penis against mine, regardless of its location. (By "very str8", I mean the men who announce vociferously their staightness and wilt in the presence of another male member.) Of course, there's no accounting for the ability that we men have to rationalize almost anything. Somehow, the presence of a woman acts as a buffer that allows the straight man to reason away the presence of the other male, despite the fact that most of his own sensation may be caused by male-male contact.

    Somehow, we are supposed to believe that there are more bisexual females in swinging than in the general population and that, conversely, there are less bisexual men. How likely is that, considering the homogeneity of the swinging subculture?

    I really think that if women were inherently more bisexual than men, then there would be less close-ups of penises in hetero porn. Guys in porn flicks would remain clothed throughout the entire show, only exposing the least necessary flesh. They would be as unattractive as possible and preferably out of shape. Instead, they are Calvin Klein underwear models making a few extra bucks on the side.
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