Androgel: Has Anyone Tried It?

[Uomo]

I've seen several ("enhancement/anxiety") threads (typically about Viagra, Cialis, Levitra, Staminex, Enzyte, and the like) ... but I haven't seen any threads specifically addressing testosorine supplements and their effects on sex drive.

I'm curious if anyone has any expereience with testostorine replacement gels (such as Androgel; which is available by Prescription) ... or the various testostorine supplement pills available at health food stores?

My sex drive just isn't what it used to be ... and I'm wondering if this sort of thing might do the trick? My doctor once told me my testostorine levels were within an acceptable (normal) range, albeit on the low side of normal. I think it is unusual for someone my age (33) to have such a low libido. I certainly have the desire ... but sometimes ... I feel like I've got Larry Flint's eyes ... and Ben Stein's pulse. Frustrating. A spontaneous woody every now and then wouldn't be all that bad of a thing. I dare say I would probably feel somewhat better about myself ... a little more alive.

I'm thinking about going back to the doctor to ask for a trial prescription. But before I do ... I thought I might try to solicit some feedback.

For those of you who have never heard of aAndrogel, here's an brief excerpt from an Andrgoel webite:

AndroGel(TM) is a unique, clear, colorless topical gel that men apply once daily to the shoulders, upper arms and/or abdomen. Upon application, AndroGel(TM) dries within a few minutes, during which time the skin absorbs the testosterone. The skin serves as a reservoir for the hormone, which slowly enters the bloodstream. Normal testosterone levels are restored soon after application. AndroGel(TM) is the only FDA approved testosterone replacement therapy available in gel form. AndroGel(TM) provides men with a safe, effective and easy-to-use treatment that can be applied at home.

Clinical data from a U.S. phase III study conducted in men with hypogonadism indicated that AndroGel(TM) quickly raised circulating testosterone to desirable levels, and maintained it within normal range. The study also found that AndroGel(TM) increased sex drive, bone mineral density, and lean body mass and improved mood and energy levels.

[Thrax]

I've heard of it, but know nothing else about it.

Testosterone levels in an individual are usually the result of both heredity and enviromental factors, although I don't know which has a greater effect. Obviously you can't do anything about the DNA your parents gave you, but have you tried other things that might increase your testosterone level?

I don't know what kind of shape you're in, what your diet is, or how much you exercise, but have you considered changes in those areas to increase your t-levels first? Rather than take a drug that might be unnecessary, expensive, and have unwelcome side effects?

I don't have documenation at hand, but I have read articles in health and science magazines about t-levels. If you eat a reasonable diet with moderate intake of fats, maintain a good body weight (I know the "ideal" can vary by person), and get aerobic and anaerobic workouts three or four times a week, and your t-levels are still low (according to a medical professional), then a testosterone supplement might be useful. If you are not up to par in any of those three areas, why don't you see what you can do about your health -- without the drug first -- to see if your libido will improve.

I came to the exercise game sort of late, when I was in my early 30s. I was always thin (but little muscle) so I was lucky that I started exercising and paying attention to my diet right about the time most guys notice things might be starting to slide. I've continued that and it seems to be paying off. No decline in the libido area. Luckily. I can't remember ever having my testosterone level checked, but I might just ask my GP about that during my annual physical next month.

My personal recommendation is that you do a self-evaluation, and if you are otherwise in very good health, eat right most of the time, and get lots of exercise but still have a low t-level, THEN consider a supplement.

Good luck!

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Thrax

My personal recommendation is that you do a self-evaluation, and if you are otherwise in very good health, eat right most of the time, and get lots of exercise but still have a low t-level, THEN consider a supplement.

Basically what I was going to suggest...

I try to (when I have time) do some "testosterone boosting" exercise (we have a heavy bag in the garage, or I'll do a quick lift routine) before going to the club... Typically on club night I have sex at least twice, and always after midnight and following a lot of dancing... So I am pretty whipped by the time I start...

But still - it seems that burst of testosterone is enough to help me have the drive I need for the at least twice (very often three) times that it is needed...

When I "fall off the wagon" exercise and diet-wise, I notice a big decrease in drive. So - take Thrax's advice to heart... It is the best place to start...

Spoomonkey

[intuition897]

Spoo and Thrax make good suggestions, Uomo. I noticed when Mr. intuition is working out regularly lifting weights and running, he's ALWAYS horny. We're talking erections that are knocking things off tables here!

Another consideration: are you a smoker? When Mr. intuition quit smoking, we both noticed a big difference! The impotence warning is right on the package. Can't argue with that. More oxygen, better circulation, and more muscle mass (= more testosterone) all act together I think to enhance performance.

[Uomo]

Wow. Great feedback. In response to questions asked:

I do not smoke. I exercise regualrly (2-3 times a week), mostly cardio, with some freeweights thrown in here and there, just as necessary (I enjoy sports, but don't care for weightlifting). Overall, I consider myself to be in good shape (I'm six foot with a 35-Inch waist). My primary motivation for exercising is a family history of diabetes. I've also been told I have high-chlorestorol and by blood pressure is higher than ideal. So off to the gym I go. I think of it as just something I need to do (like shaving and brushing my teeth). As far as diets go: I stick to an Atkins/South Beach hybrid (I tend to very bad eating habits when I go off the diet [gain weight] ... so I've made it a permanent change of dietary lifestyle).

So I'm not sure diet and exercise are (alone) going to do the trick. Still searching ...

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Uomo

I exercise regualrly (2-3 times a week), mostly cardio, with some freeweights thrown in here and there, just as necessary (I enjoy sports, but don't care for weightlifting).

Building muscle increase testosterone...

Cardio can tear it down...

If you are doing weight lifting "here and there" you're short changing yourself. Also - you don't mention diet, but you mention cholesterol and blood pressure. Cardio can knock these down a lot - so my guess is (and it is just a guess) that your diet is less than optimal.

Two things to think about...



Spoomonkey

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

Building muscle increase testosterone...

Cardio can tear it down...

If you are doing weight lifting "here and there" you're short changing yourself. Also - you don't mention diet, but you mention cholesterol and blood pressure. Cardio can knock these down a lot - so my guess is (and it is just a guess) that your diet is less than optimal.

Two things to think about...



Spoomonkey

I know you said you dislike weightlifting, Uomo, but perhaps you should consider doing it anyway in a more regular fashion. Before you start any other kind of prescription therapy. Just add it to the list of things to do like brushing your teeth. I personally enjoyed weightlifting when I was doing it regularly (and I'm just a guuuurl ). It really makes you feel super strong and vigorous. I loved the feeling when the bag boy offered to help carry my grocery bags to the car and I say, "No thanks! I can manage." and then hoist the whole lot of them effortlessly. No sweat! And I felt somewhat more sexually aggressive - partially because of the physical sense of well-being, and equally because I was proud of the way I looked.

I'd suggest trying weights - HEAVY weights, not the sissy little 2 1/2 lb dumbells either! Start with one set of moderately heavy weights (if you've been doing them already) the first week. Work out one day, then rest at least one day in between (this is when you actually build the muscle you just tore down). When you increase your weights, do it gradually, but a few tips:
- Focus on excellent form - sloppy = lazy = a waste of time and sweat. AND it's not a matter of IF you hurt yourself with this bad habit, but WHEN.
- Train HARD. Go to failure. Don't be a pansy.
- Don't dick around in the gym. Get in, get sweaty, and get out. I'll have to see if I can find it, but a study has shown that if you're taking longer than 45 minutes to work out, you're wasting time. You need to move from station to station quickly, and avoid resting more than 1 minute between sets.
-Big muscle groups first, then smaller ones; you need those stabilizing triceps to be fresh and ready if you're going to use good form when working out your pecs doing benchpresses. Form is everything. You can finish wearing your secondary muscles out later.
- Eat something light but high in protein before and after working out. Before, obviously, to fuel up, and within 30 minutes afterward to provide your muscles the protein/nutrients it needs. For some reason, there's this 30 minute window when your body is most receptive to absorbing the protein.

You sound like a bit of a health buff, so you likely knew this already. But whatever! Maybe others didn't.

[Thrax]

Originally Posted by intuition897

I personally enjoyed weightlifting when I was doing it regularly (and I'm just a guuuurl ). It really makes you feel super strong and vigorous. I loved the feeling when the bag boy offered to help carry my grocery bags to the car and I say, "No thanks! I can manage." and then hoist the whole lot of them effortlessly. No sweat! And I felt somewhat more sexually aggressive - partially because of the physical sense of well-being, and equally because I was proud of the way I looked.

RRRRrrrrooooooowwwwwwwwwrrrr! Let me be your bagboy, baby!

I started weightlifting -- very light weights -- for part of my therapy after I dislocated a shoulder in 2000. Because I had lost so much muscle -- and I didn't have much of an upper-body to begin with -- during my recuperation, it was amazing to me after two months of regular workouts, gradually increasing weights, how much hard muscle started showing up.

I never felt comfortable around the ironheads at the Y, so eventually I got a used weight bench and a variety of dumbbells up to 60 lbs. each, and some bars and weight discs for use at home. Work got so crazy about a year and a half ago that I just concentrated on swimming and pushups and situps. But now that I read this, and have a good start on my New Year's resolution for more exercise, I think I might get back to the weights sooner than I had planned. My arms and chest are about the same size, but that real muscle, the hardness isn't as evident. Gotta get that back.

(Luckily the lack of weightlifting hasn't affected the other hardness! )

Sorry about the threadjack. Carry on.

[Uomo]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

Building muscle increase testosterone...

Cardio can tear it down...

Huh ... I never knew that. So all that time I spent hauling ass on the treadmill ... was actually undermining my muscle build-up? Ain't that a bitch?!

Originally Posted by intuition897

I know you said you dislike weightlifting, Uomo, but perhaps you should consider doing it anyway in a more regular fashion.

(Sigh) ... I will. You and Spoo have opened my eyes to something I had not realized.

Originally Posted by intuition897

I'd suggest trying weights - HEAVY weights ... Start with one set of moderately heavy weights (if you've been doing them already) the first week. Work out one day, then rest at least one day in between (this is when you actually build the muscle you just tore down). When you increase your weights, do it gradually, but a few tips:
- Focus on excellent form - sloppy = lazy = a waste of time and sweat. AND it's not a matter of IF you hurt yourself with this bad habit, but WHEN.
- Train HARD. Go to failure. Don't be a pansy.
- Don't dick around in the gym. Get in, get sweaty, and get out. I'll have to see if I can find it, but a study has shown that if you're taking longer than 45 minutes to work out, you're wasting time. You need to move from station to station quickly, and avoid resting more than 1 minute between sets.
-Big muscle groups first, then smaller ones; you need those stabilizing triceps to be fresh and ready if you're going to use good form when working out your pecs doing benchpresses. Form is everything. You can finish wearing your secondary muscles out later.
- Eat something light but high in protein before and after working out. Before, obviously, to fuel up, and within 30 minutes afterward to provide your muscles the protein/nutrients it needs. For some reason, there's this 30 minute window when your body is most receptive to absorbing the protein.

You sound like a bit of a health buff, so you likely knew this already. But whatever! Maybe others didn't.

That was some excellent work-out advice. A lot of what you just told me, I had never heard before. My old work-out philosophy was "No Pain ... No Pain ... Time for Cardio." I have to admit, however, that since I started fooling around (in a soft-swing with my secretary) last summer, I have been a much more regular gym patron. I've often mused to myself that swinging is good for your health. Hell ... before all of this loosing up you would never catch me on the other side of the gym. I'd just run my ass off ... and go home.

So all of this begs a new question: Exactly how much cardio should I do (if any) so as not to screw up my progress up elsewhere in the gym?

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Uomo

So all of this begs a new question: Exactly how much cardio should I do (if any) so as not to screw up my progress up elsewhere in the gym?

That is a tough question...

Since we run (half-marathons) it can be difficult to build muscle - so a lot of that comes with diet...

We picked half-marathons over full ones because of time and this very reason: I didn't want "runner's body". You'd have to be taller than me to look good that thin.

My advice would be to use a version of the "Body For Life" cardio plan. We actually do cardio six days per week - a mix of elliptical and 3-10 mile road runs. So I am a bad one to ask about how much you should do. If you are going to do a lot of cardio, you really need to hit the weights and eat a LOT of quality food. I am sincere when I say that at the peak of my training this summer, I will very likely be eating 3500 calories per day minimum - and with the cardio I do, that will be a deficit.

Spoomonkey

[intuition897]

You know, I think I've got myself stoked to hit the bench again... But like you, Uomo, I think I'm gonna have to spend a few weeks working out at home before I'll feel comfortable joining the university gym rats in the weight room.

[sexyshelby]

Lifting weights can increase your sexual desire (among all the other benefits) even for women.
For me it's a great cycle...I work out to feel sexy, when I feel sexy I want to have sex, when I have sex I want to have an even better body, so I work out more, which makes me feel better, which makes me want to show off my sexy body, which makes me want to have sex...well you get the point!

I wouldn't recommend doing as much cardio as Spoo, unless you will also be running. Personally, I don't do cardio at all. (Except shopping, which I DO consider cardio ) I would just hit the weights 3 or 4 times a week. If you insist on doing cardio, don't do it on the same days as weights and don't do more than 30 minutes....just my opinion.

If you want more workout advice, I highly recommend checking out the forums on BodyBuilding.com It has a wealth of information. Much like this site, only for working out! There are plenty of sample workouts and diet advice.

Good luck.

~SS

[highlander]

I've used androgel for over a year now.

If you think you have low testosterone, you can get a test for $60 at www.salivatest.com

I've also used a cream from a compounding pharmacy. I'm using androgel because my insurance pays for it-the cream is a better deal IMHO.

Anyhow if you want to do this, find a _good_ anti-aging doc. There are lots at www.acam.org.

Another hormone level to check is HGH.

I wouldn't do it unless you think your T level is below what has been optimal for you.

Also if you decide to start taking T: consider banking some sperm in case you want kids later(T supplements cause you to stop producing as many sperm unless you cycle carefully-this effect is usually reversable-but it is a pain in the rear to do).

Good luck.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by highlander

Also if you decide to start taking T: consider banking some sperm in case you want kids later(T supplements cause you to stop producing as many sperm unless you cycle carefully-this effect is usually reversable-but it is a pain in the rear to do).

Good luck.

Huh. Male hormonal birth control. Interesting.

Originally Posted by sexyshelby

Lifting weights can increase your sexual desire (among all the other benefits) even for women.
For me it's a great cycle...I work out to feel sexy, when I feel sexy I want to have sex, when I have sex I want to have an even better body, so I work out more, which makes me feel better, which makes me want to show off my sexy body, which makes me want to have sex...well you get the point!

I wouldn't recommend doing as much cardio as Spoo, unless you will also be running. Personally, I don't do cardio at all. (Except shopping, which I DO consider cardio ) I would just hit the weights 3 or 4 times a week. If you insist on doing cardio, don't do it on the same days as weights and don't do more than 30 minutes....just my opinion.

You're totally right Shelby! It really is a perpetual win-win-win situation. I know the feeling exactly.

As far as burning calories goes, lifting burns huge calories, too. With cardio, you burn your calories while working out, and then experience the lingering effect of post-workout calorie burn for something like 24 hours afterward, when your metabolism is still increased. With weightlifting, the post-workout increase in your metabolism is something like 48 hours; your body uses a lot of energy to rebuild that muscle on rest days...and you get to rest! No working out.

Another thing to consider: What kind of engine uses more fuel? A four-cylinder engine? Or a big-block Chevy 427? Bigger muscles = greater need for fuel. You burn more fuel when you use those muscles, and even when you're not using them. In terms of body efficiency, they're expensive to keep; muscle requires 9 calories per pound just to maintain, fat only requires 1. Unless you NEED the muscle to lift heavy weights, your body won't keep it. Also, your body is smart enough to know that if your daily life requires a lot of walking/running/cardio for long distances, it beefs up your cardio system, but sheds the unnecessary muscle mass to make you lean, light, and more efficient for that purpose.

Like Spoomonkey said, you gotta eat. Low fat, HIGH PROTEIN! It's actually difficult to get enough calories in of the kind of food you need to eat. Our usual breakfast was 'facon and eggs', which is bacon-flavoured ham strips and about 6-8 egg whites each.

[sexyshelby]

Wow...listen to this girl...She really knows her stuff.

I agree, eating enough is the hardest thing about being healthy. Most people struggle to eat less, I struggle to eat enough!

~SS