counseling/swinging/low self esteem

[Tarnished Halo]

Hello Everyone,

I just wanted those who have read my posts to know that I am now in counseling. Because of our personalities, and the issues that have come up in our marriage in regard to swinging, I finally found someone that is 1. In our area 2. A registered sex therapist and 3. Someone that I can afford. NOT that I am going to reveal here what goes on in our counseling sessions, but will keep you all posted on what's happening. Two very intertesting things that she noted.
In the week that I went for the first time, she said that there were three cases that week that involved swinging, after a nearly 10 year lull. She also found that quite interesting.
And two....after a couple of sessions, she stated that she did not believe that one of my problems was that I have low self esteem. She explained that in addition to other considerations, but primarily due to the fact that I did not have a problem in communicating (that doesn't include HOW I COMMUNICATED) my discomfort and considerations about swinging to and with my husband, she did not feel that my self labeled "self esteem" was correct. I did have some self esteem issues though. I thought that was quite interesting.

I will be attending by myself at first, and then we will bring my husband into counseling to address the couple issues that we have communication, etc.
The support from my friends in seeking counseling has been truly wonderful. They do not see me as "sick", or lacking in any way, not that I had ever seen counseling in that light.
I thought that some might be interested in this.
T.H.

[Sadie]

Good luck to you in counseling...it's the first step in reconnecting with yourself. We sometimes lose sight of what we want and it's amazing how a good therapist can help us sort out what we want for ourselves. Best of luck!!!

[wrnakedru]

It has been a good many years ago, but I still firmly believe that counseling is one of the best gifts I was ever smart enough to give myself.

The phrase Sadie used about connecting with yourself was the crux of the matter for me. I had become so responsive to what everyone/anyone else expected of me, I had really lost myself in the process.

I'm sure to others there appeared to be no major change that occurred in my life as a result of the counseling. But internally, the transformation was immense. I took responsibility for myself and made my decisions for myself, based on what worked for me.

You are fortunate indeed that your husband is supportive and willing to attend some sessions with you. Mine was not, but it did not stop me from doing what I needed to do for myself. Perhaps his problem was he feared if I began listening to myself, I might see him more clearly as well.

It took another 6 years after that, but I was able to see when the time came that I no longer wanted him in my life. The end of a marriage is a sad thing, especially one of long duration. I have never regretted making that decision, as I would not have the life I have today if I had not.

As I said, sometimes the results of counseling do not manifest themselves to others. But what it can do for you is the total reason for going. I am glad you have found the "right" person for yourself and wish you all the best. There may be some sessions that leave you feeling a little shaky, but what you are building for yourself is important - so stay with it!

Hugs to you!
wrnakedru

[JustAskJulie]

Great move and congratulations for taking control of your life and finding someone who can help you. I really hope that once you get your husband in there with you that you can work things out and come out a stronger, happier couple.

[Amy and Mike]

Amy and I had some counseling at the beginning of our marriage (getting used to living together isn't as easy as it seems sometimes). I have to say that it was the best investment in time and money we ever made, and we'd both recommend it to anyone.

we're really curious to know what your counselor's opinion is on swinging. Nearly everything we've read on sex info. web sites (where a counselor gives his opinion on various topics concerning sexuality) says that swinging will only lead to jealousy, etc. and should always be avoided. But of course, these people only discus swinging with couples who are having problems, so i dont think they necessarily know what they're talking about (obviously it works fine for most everyone who posts here). Anyhow, I'd really like to know what she thinks about it.

[Tarnished Halo]

The counselor has not yet stated her opinion on swinging but did ask me if this was what I hoped to achieve through counseling. I told her truthfully that there had been times when I had thoughts that this might be fun, however.....my fantasy of swinging and my husbands were worlds apart. I would have to have a lot of my ducks in a row to do that, but that was not why I was there.

Although my husband is interested in seeing if I could "clear" up some issues that I have about it, that is NOT why. I am not seeking professional approval, or find a way that I can do this. She has been in counseling for 26 years and has had this issue come up before. I'm not much of a statistican, but I think that three couples in one week (us being the 4th), has GOT to have some significince. Maybe not along the lines of winning the lottery, but did take me by surprise, as it did her.

My biggest personal concern (which has been laid to rest) was being either emotionally "beat" up by both him and her (or to be overly simplistic have "them, the counselor and my husband corner me into doing what he wanted to do, or to have my husband be the bad guy and him feeling beat up. Lord knows he tried to talk me into it for a long long time.

The funny thing I think is that he felt and so did I that I had low self esteem and hearing that she did not agree that was an accurate label, if you will. Not that a lower self esteem wasn't manifisting itself when I felt that he was comparing me to the younger women that he wanted to have sex with.

I do not think that this is going to be fun, but another benefit of counseling, is that I had no one to talk to. A counselor isn't your best buddy, she isn't going to tell me what she thinks I want to hear, and in fact, one of the goals is going to be finding other ways to cope with my juvenile ways of handling stress and conflict. She was referring to our arguments. When I feel threatened by the swinging issues, we would generally argue. That was one of the reasons why I sought counseling, I am tired of the arguing, and because the nature of arguing (in my opinon) is that you can no longer communicate when you need to start attacking and defending, just to survive.

I knew that I was a pleaser. I LIKE to please people. It doesn't "cost" me anything to show someone a kindness, or whatever, but I couldn't swing to please my husband. The one thing that he would like me to do to "please" him was the thing that I couldn't do and "please" myself. So I would argue with him, hoping that he would just let it go. The more we argued, the more distant we became. The love between us was always there though.

When I first started, I filled out this questionaire, and had to state my problems. I thought about it for a week or so, after all, I had a few lines to give her an idea of why I was there. Imagine you trying to represent who you are, the fears and problems that you have in your life in a very limited space. Gads!

In a PERFECT world for me, the desire to swing wouldn't be an issue in our marriage. He would either be not interested in it, or I could go "gee honey...doesn't that sound like fun?....but for me, it isn't. I suspect that there are many relationships out there that this has been an issue for, either the wife or the husband. It's when it gets out of whack, like in my relationship where on just about everything else, nothing is so important that our personal opinons on a matter would be the breaking point, or cause such stress and strain that outside help is wanted or needed. Unfortunatley, this isn't my perfect world!
T.H.

[MattMann]

I have a question, why did you decide on individual counseling rather than couples or marriage counseling? I am also curious as to whether costs play a part in the decision (insurance paying for a therapist or psychiatrist but not paying for marriage counseling for example). Please keep us informed on how the therapy is working or not for you. Best of luck.

[BradAndJanet]

I'm very glad to hear about this. Thank you for coming around to share it with us. It sounds to me as if you're already discovering some things. Good! I do wish you the best, and please let us know how things go.

-B

[Tarnished Halo]

To answer MattMann's question, we both kind of agreed that I was the one who was having more of a problem with this than he was. Now I see it as somewhat unfortunate that we labeled "my" problems as we did. I was the one who had low self esteem, lacked confidence, had a moral dilema with swinging, couldn't separate sex & love, had feelings of inadequecy, etc. Although all those things are true, those aren't the things that I wanted to resolve. Yes..I do want to feel better about myself, but I had my husband's lust and desire for someone else tied up to my physical appearance, and my ok'ness. I began to think if only I looked better, he'd want me more than he wanted the others, all kinds of self defeating thoughts. I was beginning to think that if he really did love me, he wouldn't want them as much as he did. What I really needed to find out was that I had value to ME maybe actually those other women WERE as important to him as I thought. There wasn't a thing that I can or could do about that, except learn about my value as a human being aside from his considerations about me BUT I could feel better about ME!
So we thought that regardless, we could both benefit from my going first, and then I could bring the things I gained to the relationship and issues between us. He also was reluctant about going, I think from exposing himself to being judged about some of the things that were going on with him.
The biggest thing I wanted to do was to better communicate with him so that we could stop arguing about swinging. I am happy to say that I am learning more effective skills at communicating, which is always a real bonus.
I hope that I have made this clear, it's very early in the morning!

[Botcpl]

Dea T. H.,

About 25 years ago I went into therapy for about a year, it was one of the best investments I ever made in myself. It's not so much you solve your problems as you learn to deal with them. I personally think your S.O.should be there too, but that is for him to decide.

Sometimes therapy can be painful, sometimes removing a splinter from your hand is painful too, but if you don't remove it (deal with it) it can become infected and you could possibly loose the hand. Probibly an extreme example, but the only one I can think you so early this AM.

Good luck and be honnest with yourself.

Paul

[hoistsail]

If a couple can communicate without yelling then most things go smoothly.

[wrnakedru]

Originally posted by hoistsail If a couple can communicate without yelling then most things go smoothly.

I think most would agree that yelling [except when done in joyful gleeful abandon] is counterproductive.

However, the most skilled passive-agressive manipulators rarely raise their voice.

Volume ain't everything ..... kindness counts!

[MattMann]

I agree, sometimes a couple who withdraw into their own, separate existences while simply maintaining an outward facade of contentment can slowly, over time, become as devoid of real emotion for each other as a couple who are constantly bickering. Like a trench formed by a flash flood versus one formed by years of trickling water, the length of the process may be different but the result is the same.

[RMRx2]

Tarnished Halo wrote;

I began to think if only I looked better, he'd want me more than he wanted the others, all kinds of self defeating thoughts. I was beginning to think that if he really did love me, he wouldn't want them as much as he did. What I really needed to find out was that I had value to ME maybe actually those other women WERE as important to him as I thought. There wasn't a thing that I can or could do about that, except learn about my value as a human being aside from his considerations about me BUT I could feel better about ME!

Hi Tarnished Halo,

I have read and kinda watched posts since you signed on. I have often thought I should speak up, say something. I also, felt you and your situation was serious enough that I should be most careful of any casual comment.

One) I am impressed by your interest in this whole subject, your marriage, and your very adult attitude. You have been honest, open and sincere. Many come to the board , not sure of all of this and have a closed mind, and are full of condemnation. I have a great deal of faith, judging from your posts and your handling of the subject matter, that whether you ever swing or not, you will have found this to be a rewarding expeience.

History of mine; I am the male partner, I have struggled with more issues and crap in an intensive journey to understand and improve myself for over a ten year period. I have made a devoted project of understanding, healing, and change, so that I might be closer to who I saw myself as, and not repeat past mistakes. I have seen more counselors than Liz Taylor has had husbands. I have attended group sessions over extended period of time. I am happy with my progress. I have been so low as to have lost everything I owned and thought death better than existence. It has been a long process, expensive and painful. I am happier now than ever before in my life, and my friends, my friends and family now happily agree that I am much closer to who I want to be. These are my credentials, definetly not braggin rights.


Two) Advice; I think is is wonderful that you are seeking counseling. As many have written, it can be a very benificial process. There is the key word, PROCESS. It takes some time. There are good counselors, and so so ones, then there are great ones. What for the ones that a person life issue of thier own begins to appear. They are the ones that can not help but be tainted by thier own experience, maybe even brought them to be counselors. Look for objectivenesss. Also, because this is a process, and all that a counselor has to work with is your actions and words,,,,,,initial feed back you receive may be off a bit. Remember, it is a process. I have left sessions owning one thing,,,,,only a year or two later, to realize that it was just "a shoe, put out there to see if "it fit" so to speak. If you are as honest, and open as you have been on this board, you should have no problems recieving all the benefit this has to offer. Try ideas and suggestions about yourself and what is or is not going on for you before you"buy them" Run them around the block a few times with close folks you trust, and don't forget to think for yourself. If something doesn't fit, you don't have to try and make it so.

Three: my comment on this thread and most particularly the words copied above;;;;men, women, couples, have the ability to deeply love, desire and be completley satisfied with thier partner in life, and still want to expierence sex with others for many many reasons. Those true to themselves,partner, in this lifestyle
have long, happy, devoted relationships and it isn't about simply wanting someone else. I believe, that is why you will see that those who come to this board wanting sex with others , at the exclusion of, or expense of thier partners feelings are ferreted out pretty quickly and , for the most part shunned by the board.

Again, I applaud your positive attitude, your efforts, your communicating. I think you will find all of it very rewarding. Best of everything to you.

mr rmrx2

[RMRx2]

Originally posted by wrnakedru
I think most would agree that yelling [except when done in joyful gleeful abandon] is counterproductive.

However, the most skilled passive-agressive manipulators rarely raise their voice.

Volume ain't everything ..... kindness counts!

HERE HERE! I couldn't agree more. My first wifes talents were, and still are very stealthy,,,,,,,,,,,,she could have sold he ways to the military for millions,,,,,and our enemies would never see us coming every again!

wrnakedru, I so agree, kindness counts, along with sincere openly displayed concideration for anothers right to be thier own person and accepted as such.

rmrx2