How do swingers feel about assertive women

[betty1213]

Hi All: I am new to the board and this is the first time I have been brave enough to post a question so I ask you all to bear with me as to the length of this. I have done a search of the board but didn't find anything that asked this exact question.

We are relatively new to the lifestyle ( about 2 years ) and our play experiences have been mostly with single straight or bi females. We have yet to find the connection with another couple where all four parties click. In part this is due to the fact that we live in a very small conservative community and my job would be affected were I to be outed so play time is usually out of town. We have attended small dances north and south of us and are members of Swing Lifestyle but there are no clubs or larger dances close by.

I have become concerned that one of the reasons we have not clicked with another couple is because of me. I am in a management position and have worked hard on my self confidence , management and leadership skills. I have come a long way from the shy catholic school girl with poor self esteem of 30 years ago. I am a very assertive, independent woman. I don't consider myself a hottie but have been attempting to work on MILF status for several years!

I have come to believe that many men find women like me attractive but will tend to go for the more submissive type females in the end because it tends to be easier. I try hard not to seem overly assertive but apparently am not quite getting the message across.

Hubby loves me madly and is aware of my less assertive side. He is one of the few people in my life whom I have trusted with that part of me. Because of this I have been able to grow in my career.

When playing I don't believe I act dominant and actually don't usually initiate contact except with hubby.
So the questions are: 1) Do couples in the lifestyle want less assertive, independent female as playmates?
2) Have we just not connected yet with the right couples and my paranoia is unfounded?
3) Is there something I should be doing different ?

Not sure if I asked the questions right or am being quite as clear as I could. Hope I haven't offended anyone.

Your Thoughts or ideas will be appreciated.

[JustAskJulie]

This is one of those that it really hard to answer without knowing you personally and actually seeing how you act with people.

I guess your husband would know best, does he feel that you act overly assertive with other couples/singles in the swinging environment?

It really depends on how you are displaying that assertiveness. The only thing I can see being too much is if you are one that constantly flirts/ hits on people despite their lack of response to the point where you come off as pushy.

[Elusive BiFem]

What does MLIF mean?

Now, I'm really glad you asked this question, Betty1213, as it is something I've pondered myself. Not in terms of swinging so much as in everyday life. However, I've found much to correlate between swinging and those same everyday relationships.

Beyond that, all I could guess at is that just like in "real life" you will find some that appreciate and respect you for your assertiveness and others that are put off by it. I would venture to guess that you just haven't met the right people yet, and no...I wouldn't change anything (at least for myself). I spent too many years learning assertiveness to toss it away for something that in the end isn't that terribly important to me, e.g., a swinging relationship.

I'l be greatly interested in other responses. Good luck and Welcome to the board, too! - EBF

[Brit_Pair]

Originally Posted by Elusive BiFem

What does MLIF mean?

It's MILF - Mother I'd Like to F*ck.

[Brit_Pair]

Originally Posted by betty1213

I have come to believe that many men find women like me attractive but will tend to go for the more submissive type females in the end because it tends to be easier.

Well, this is one male who tends to shy away from the 'easier' path. And if there's one here, you can be sure that there are others out there. But you may well be right; your strength and self-confidence may well cause potential playmates to falter.

Personally, I don't think you should do anything but be true to your own character and desires. That way, the people you do connect with will be genuinely worth playing with.

Good luck to you.

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally Posted by Brit_Pair

It's MILF - Mother I'd Like to F*ck.

Thank you. I think I need to give it up.

This comment by Brit_Pair sums up the whole thing, IMO:

Personally, I don't think you should do anything but be true to your own character and desires. That way, the people you do connect with will be genuinely worth playing with.

- EBF

[SteveInAZ]

I suspect that the preference is all over the map on this one - if your looking for more confident partners, don't settle for less confident ones and vice versa.

It's a wonderful life and the playground is open...

[betty1213]

Thanks for all the responses so far. I feel better already. Being true to myself and of course to hubby is absolutely number one. I have left jobs in the past due to integrity so it is one of the most important things in my life.

To Julie: I don't really initiate flirting usually unless it is initiated by someone else. To my knowledge we haven't encountered anyone who has indicated I was being pushy. But as in life sometimes folks do misinterpret things.

I am also wondering of the wives out there: Do you shy away from couples whose wives are self confident or assertive? I haven't encountered this as most of the folks we've met the women have been fairly assertive themselves.

thoughts anyone?

As for the MILF...it is something I strive for (it makes my college age sons laugh out loud!) but haven't come close to acheiving yet.......

[BradAndJanet]

Well, I'll tell ya what...I love an assertive woman. It takes some of the guesswork out of the equation; if you're actively fllirting with me, I know that you're at least somewhat interested and I'll respond to that.

Pretending you're somebody else just doesn't work. I think you have to be who you are. Some will like you and some won't, but that's just the way it is. Gravitate toward those who do appreciate you for who you are and don't worry about the rest.

-B

[LikeMinds321]

Hi Betty!

Here is another perspective that might help out.

First off, I too am an assertive woman, I operate a business with my husband. I work alone (except for my husband) and therefore don't have to contend with coworkers. But if I had employees to watch over, I'd be much different with them than with people I choose to socialize with.

I know a lot of women who have a persona in the work place that is perfect for getting the job done, however, in social settings would seem stiff or cold. Maybe this is getting in your way.

When going out to meet potential swingers you might think about how you carry yourself, how much smiling you do, how spontaneous you are, whether you are relaxed and free with your gestures. In business staying more controlled can be an asset when negotiating and holding your place of "power." But outside the workplace it may hinder you; you may be appearing rigid. This may not be your situation, but I wanted to bring it up because I've seen this happen with women--even in vanilla social gatherings--and it makes them less fun to be around.

To answer your questions:

1. There are plenty of men and women who LOVE assertive women as playmates, as others have stated. So don't shut your assertiveness down, just make sure you're warming it up with a smile and some flirting! Initiate!

2. I think your paranoia is unfounded. It does take time to find couples. Be patient.

3. Should you be doing something different? If you feel you're coming across as approachable as you can, great, if not, maybe there is room to warm up your swinger image.

Happy swinging!

LM

[betty1213]

Like Minds:

thanks so much for yet another "ah hah" moment. perhaps there is a bit of truth as you are right I often do feel uncomfortable in social gatherings which is completely the opposite of how I am at work. It is often hard to relax because that control thing can get in the way. I am employed in healthcare and work mostly with men. Although the majority of the employees I supervise are women. I probably do have a tendency of being stiff until I relax and often first impressions are what stick in folks minds. I was never good at the vanilla dating of my youth and struggled with it then. I will try to figure out a way to be aware of this without changing who I am at heart.

I appreciate all the great feedback. I love this board as questions like this are ones you can't always ask at work!!!

[omyt4824]

I agree totally with Brad&Janet. I love agressive ladies.

[jim-n-nicole]

Funny because we have been discussing this topic ourselves, but with respect to both sexes. I'm still sorting this all out in my mind, actually, but here are my thoughts so far.

We both tend to shy away from people who come on too strong - it's hard to describe exactly what "too strong" is. On the other hand, couples that are too shy will likely not send any signals that they are interested in us...meaning a connection will never be made.

We like people who are confident, intelligent, gentle and have a fair idea of what they want. We tend to move away from people who are forceful, rough, loud or send mixed signals.

Examples of the differences are:
- On the dance floor, people who make eye contact and pick up on our interested/not interested signals come off as intelligent. Those who push right in come across as arrogant.
- People who are overpowering while dancing or whose hands wander too quickly or too roughly are forceful. People whose hands wander slowly and gently are caring and sensual.
- At the table, people who can make smalltalk, say logical things and reasonably express their desires are confident. People who want to jump right to the punchline (lets go back to the rooms NOW!) without allowing us to think things through are forceful.
- Another tell-tale moment: kissing. an immediate, hard tongue down the throat is a biiig warning sign to us that we may want to reconsider where we go from here!

How do I feel about a woman being assertive? I love it when they express interest first - that is a real turn on! I love it when they tell me what they would like to do and where their limits are. And I love it when they are gentle with their hands.

I'm not as much into submissive ladies as I may misinterpret that as disinterest.

Of course, this is just one datapoint. Not sure how close I am to the typical male...

Jim.

[wrnakedru]

Perhaps it's simply a case of semantics here, but there's a huge difference between assertive and aggressive, especially in reference to sexually oriented activity.

My take is as follows: An assertive lady is not likely to "take one for the team" if she's really not into it. She's circumspect about it, explaining her lack of interest to her mate privately, not by being rude to the person in question. When involved in activity, she's going to be sure she receives as well as gives pleasure. She will certainly clearly communicate if "a line" is being crossed and put a halt to it. She knows what brings her pleasure, and will convey it to a partner in a clear, not necessarily verbal, manner. She will not be coaxed into something against her wishes, and will be verbal in that regard if warranted.

An aggressive lady may foist attention upon an unsuspecting prey, even going so far as to pursue when it is clear the object of her quest is uncomfortable. I heard an aggressive female at one club proclaiming she had recently acquired a dandy new strap on and she fully intended to use it on every man who she thought were "too full of themselves." I myself had a lady slid herself under the stall door in the ladies room at a club to have me "to herself". I thought that was beyond aggressive - it was pushy and rude and just plain scarey. We did actually some time later become friends, but it took me quite a while to be able to get past that first experience of her behavior.

I don't think there's anything wrong with assertive behavior, in fact I think it is quite attractive and desirable. You know where you stand, and aren't playing covert games. But I can also understand the need to soften that with a bit of charming flirtatiousness as well. It's just more friendly in the social environment of lifestyle encounters.

There are always going to be those men who will refer to an assertive woman as a "ball-buster" for not going along with anything and everything he may wish. And those really extreme fellows who will deem a female as "lesbian" if she's not interested in him. Those sorts are not likely to missed if they're never on your dance card.

WR

[fun_pairTX]

But there is a big gap between assertive and aggressive, and a fine line between aggressive and dictatorial. The trick is to get what you want without coming off like a Machevellian Mama. It is admirable to say what you want and to tell it like it is, however this can be accomplished with a velvet glove. Like most things at my age, this reminds me of a story.......

A CEO was had surgery and was recovering from the procedure when his "work" personality took over. He was ordering the nurses and techs about when the long experienced head nurse entered his room and informed him it was time to take his temperature. He opened his mouth and she shook her head. She informed him he would have to roll over and bare it. With much grumbling he complied. She inserted the thermometer and in leaving the room left the door to the hall wide open. Nurses, techs and Doctors walked by bursting out laughing. Finally after several minutes of this the businessman cried out; "Haven't you ever seen someone have their temperature taken before?"
The only reply from the hall was; "Not with a daisy".