Swinging vrs Religion

[davephx]

curious24

Don't want to change this into a debate about swinging, but no swing convention I have ever heard of allows singles, some clubs do on special nights to make lots of money and those nights a lot of couples avoid etc. Swinging as used in Swing Clubs, traditionally in the U.S. is couples only with the exception of allowing at times singles to particiapte on a limited basis.

Part of this is due to huge gender imbalance. Very few single women seek to participate vs zillions and zillions of single male wanabees.

At Liberated Christians, old Phoenix couples group, before our ads made it clear we were only for couples out of about 2500 people contacting us we got about 200 single men contacting us for information for every 20 couples to perhaps 1-2 single women. A couple of these women were dominatrix's looking for slaves! Only one single women regularly participated in our Fellowship Group (out of 46 people who attended last meeting) and she helps as a leader. The rest are all couples and they clearly do not want single men to offset the gender balance and who may have a different agenda than long-term loving friendships, couple to couple. Many women are bisexual so extra women not a problem at many clubs and because they are so rare. Bi men are unfairly discriminated again..yes I agree.

Also, the vast majority of couples only want to relate to other couples, and want to develop couple to couple friendships that for many, is much more than just sex. This is especially true for new couples since sharing only with other couples creates less jealousy issues.

But to the religious question again.

In Biblical times a man owned his wives and concubines. If he grants permission for them to swing there would be no problem. Today we don't own our wives and women have the same sexual freedoms men have always had. The biblical man owning their women was cultural not a "commandment of God"... as some men still seem to want to think

Like the Rabbi says to the husband at a swing club, "I don't want to own your wife, just borrow and play with her. Then I will return to you." That is the biblical issue

[Chicup]

All this makes me glad I'm a atheist.

Been one since I was 8 years old, while in Church one early morning by myself. Kids think the darndest things.

[Uneed_Love]

Originally posted by davephx
Today we don't own our wives and women have the same sexual freedoms men have always had.

Hi,

In USA of course this is probably true but not so sure for all immigrants.... same remark for Europe. Some cultures are more open about the equality of rights between males and females but it's only a part of the world.
And what about jealousy if it's not a kind of property (she is MY wife so You even can't look at her...).

Besides in Afghanistan supposed to be liberated since US troops striked the Talibans nothing have changed for women. If a man want to repudiate is wife he is locking her with a man who is raping her and then he is accusing her of adultery... nothing is done against the rapist but the female is put to jail or even worse stoned to death according to the religious and cultural beliefs of the people there.

There is still quite a lot to do on Earth to offer the same freedom to the females than the males already have... and religions are not always a good help for this fight for equals rights. In "my" religion, the Roman Catholic Church, the Pope still desagrees that a woman can become a priest or that priests can be married to women... the result is some "pedophilia scandals" which are revelated from time to time... This is why nowadays I have kept myself at distance with the Church.

JC

[Alura]

I once knew a college professor who was fond of saying, "If the Catholic church and Islam had never come to be, Man would have landed on the moon in the year 1321."

He could put forth a compelling argument based on historical events to support his point.

Mr. Alura

[Uneed_Love]

Originally posted by Alura
I once knew a college professor who was fond of saying, "If the Catholic church and Islam had never come to be, Man would have landed on the moon in the year 1321."

He could put forth a compelling argument based on historical events to support his point.

Mr. Alura

A nice sense of humour for this professor but in a way I agree even if I said previously I was baptised in the Roman Catholic Church.

In fact in 1321 Church was in fight against "heretics"... Pope Clement the fifth with the felony of the King of France were destroying the great Order of the Knight Templars. The last Great Master Jacques de Molay was burnt in march 1313 in Paris. There is still a memorial by the Seine.

The witches hunt was also the best great sport of the Inquisition at that time... Galileo was obliged to say he was wrong when he declared that the Earth was round and turning around the Sun... The Church prefered a flat Planet with the sun turning around. The earth was then at the Center of the Universe. And at the top of this world was the Church and the Pope who was the only real intercessor of GOD... very convenient for him I guess.

Fortunatly a part of the World opened their eyes on this and Church is now just a Spiritual Power which is her right place but no more else.

Now what about sex and Religion... It's fun to know that some Popes had given birth to babies not only with the help of the Holy Spirit but with the tool they had between their legs

A female known as "Jeanne la Papesse" became a Pope for a few period and this is why since this time they are "verifying that the Pope has balls to be allowed to play the game"

JC

[Bluebirds in San Jose]

This is interesting.

Of the limited number of responses in this thread, of the people who have professed a belief one way or the other, those that have named a religion they belong to are generic Christian, or specifically Catholic.

Does someone know how to start a poll along the lines of "If (and only if) you belong to an organized religion, which best describes it:" And then list a number of religions.

My hunch (and it's only a hunch/gut feeling at this point) that the majority of 'swingers' who claim to be Christian are specifically Catholic. In my own experience, I'd say from 70-80 percent of the couples we've played with have been, or were once, Catholic. I have my own suspicions *why* this may be, and it has nothing to do with repressive sexuality or abusive clergy. (Akin to the easier/more prevalent acceptance of sensuality within prayer than other Christian faiths... Dont' get me started on this.... <smile> )

Anyone want to develop (or know how) to post a poll like this?

-J of the SJBluebirds

[Uneed_Love]

Originally posted by Uneed_Love
The last Great Master Jacques de Molay was burnt in march 1313 in Paris. There is still a memorial by the Seine.
JC

Ups an Historic mistake... J de Molay agony occured in 1314 (instead 1313). Well this does not change something for the poor guy but if I say something the best I can do is telling something true. Sorry folks.

JC

[wereinheat]

Thanks to all of you for adding your insite to this question. We have discussed it at lengh and still have questions between us.
Your comments and knowledge have added to our priviate discussion and may help us reach some conclusions.

[davephx]

Uneed_love's comments about other world cultures today that do not have equal women's rights was very good.

In our Phoenix Couples group about 90% came at least in part because of our Christian support. But I'd say only about 20% were Catholic and the rest from other protestant denominations either currently or in the past.

In counseling many couples however, it does seem clear Catholics often have the hardest time overcoming guilt of their repressinve teachings.

[Uneed_Love]

Originally posted by davephx
In counseling many couples however, it does seem clear Catholics often have the hardest time overcoming guilt of their repressinve teachings.

Very true Dave. I must just say that I regret that such a group as Liberated Christians does not exist here in France. I have visited Your website and I have finally found exactly the group who is perfectly expressing my own feelings towards sex and Christianity. Thanks to the great work you do I assume many Christians can hopefully hang up with their guilty feelings. Thanks for doing this for all of us.

Jean-Claude

[rjsmilesalot]

I echo the thoughts of all who have replied on this thread. My wife and I went a step further than most by telling our children what we were doing and why. We did this simply to protect them from hurt when they eventually found out. Yes, all my daughters attend church youth groups and church. What was their reaction you might be asking yourself right now? My 17yr old was confused but accepting. She seems to feel that it is an adult thing and since we love each other more than we did before (this is very obvious by the sounds coming out of our bedroom, at all hours these days ) she is very confident that we are doing the right thing for all concerned. The 13yr old is bored by the information and is just into "Lord of the rings" stuff entirely. It feels so good not hiding what we do from our kids. I fully understand that not everyone can or may want to do as we have done. We just want to encourage others that at least one couple has been successful in telling their children.

[Vjklander]

Originally posted by Bluebirds in San Jose
This is interesting.

Of the limited number of responses in this thread, of the people who have professed a belief one way or the other, those that have named a religion they belong to are generic Christian, or specifically Catholic.

-J of the SJBluebirds

Actually, I quite specically mentioned that I am Heathen, which is neither generic Christian nor Catholic I assure you.

For info, see <http://www.northvegr.org/>

Jamie

[Uneed_Love]

Originally posted by Vjklander
For info, see <http://www.northvegr.org/>
Jamie

I have had a quick glance at the website and did not knew that Vikings were wearing Baseballs caps and T-shirts
Sorry... just kidding.