Another perspective on Religion and sexuality

[Lovers4U]

I know this subject has been discussed before but those with a religious concern again go to the www.libchrist.com site and read what they have researched on the subject.
Another excellent source is the book "Divine Sex" by Philo Thelos. He is an ordained minister and his expertise was biblical languages ie. Hebrew and Greek.
He has taken every reference to sex or relationships and carefully analyzed each as understood in the original meaning of the language used. It will shock you to find that most modern religious understanding of adultery, masturbation, multiple wives, sex between those not wife, anal sex and numerous other situations is completely contrary to what the Bible really says.
This book can be found at any online bookstore such as Amazon. I have it and the facts really opened our eyes and removed the "hanging on to guilt" from growing up in a conservative religious environment.

[spectraschain]

That site cracks me up...source of great amusement.

Terms such as "non-monogamy"...gotta love that.

Really, if you hope to entwine swinging & religon...uh...well...I'm thinking you should first try rectify such abstract ideals in your own mind...

These sites are no more than people trying to do this very thing, they feel blessed if you jump on the train. Strength in numbers.

That site, in particular, has pretty much run it's course...there are others...and there will be more. You need this???

[intuition897]

I dunno. I don't have any problem reconciling my faith with my sexuality...which includes "non-monogamy". In fact, I've found that one enriches the other. Truth be told, my spirituality grew and matured significantly after I had made peace with my human nature. And vice versa.

[Lovers4U]

It's good that most can reconcile their religion with their sexuality. I just wanted to see what others thought. In most of the world there is a stigma upon those who openly enjoy sex and sexual life. It is very unfortunate. Most of this is religion caused and it would be nice if religion went its way and my sex and sexuality went another. Thanks to those who
replied. It is good to be aware of the societal pressures that influence some behavior.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by spectraschain

You need this???

You say "need" like it is a bad thing...

One of Maslow's Needs is the need to "know and understand". Searching out meaning is a natural thing. I would think that people who do not "need" that are subnormal. Granted, some will not find meaning in religious doctrine - but that does not make their choice to look there any less valid than someone else's choice to look under a different rock.

Personally, I don't "need" LibChrist as a resource or Christianity as a moral system, but I don't ridicule those who might.

Spoomonkey

[spectraschain]

I don't ridicule those who might.

No ridicule, only my self-fulfilling pot-stirring...

[Lovers4U]

In our medical education we studied Maslow's needs and have used 'needs' in our practice. this subject, probably is worn out, except that we feel it is good to know what others think and the rationals as we are better able to either confront, (in a tactful way) or suggest alternatives that blend with their beliefs.

[Chicup]

Not to get into a religious debate here, but until people start to openly congratulate each other on terminal illnesses, I think its safe to say that faith is pretty weak.

Liberate your mind from the stories you learned as a child and find your morality from yourself. If there is a god of some sort, I don't think it is reading your mind, or going to put you into eternal torment because it didn't like where you stuck your penis.

If you NEED to reinterpret ancient manuscripts to decide weather giving mutual pleasure is a sin worthy of gods contempt and punishment I feel sorry for you.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Chicup

Not to get into a religious debate here, but until people start to openly congratulate each other on terminal illnesses, I think its safe to say that faith is pretty weak.

Liberate your mind from the stories you learned as a child and find your morality from yourself. If there is a god of some sort, I don't think it is reading your mind, or going to put you into eternal torment because it didn't like where you stuck your penis.

If you NEED to reinterpret ancient manuscripts to decide weather giving mutual pleasure is a sin worthy of gods contempt and punishment I feel sorry for you.

Spoken like a true atheist.

I'm not about to debate your beliefs because neither of us will change the other's mind. Easy on the pity, though, big fella. You make it sound like those who believe in something they can't see or prove are fools, or otherwise are a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Personally, I can't see the point of living my life with the stress of thinking that the buck stops with me. If I can get through life from birth to death happily, feeling that my life has meaning and worth, living with hope of something better than the shit we have to put up with in this life, envisioning a utopian world that will exist in the next when we won't be hampered by the distractions of the physical, feeling loved and valued by something greater than myself, feeling that I never need to feel alone in this world...well...I just don't see how choosing these good things in life are illogical. Just so that someone won't call me a fool for believing a "fairy tale"? Do your worst, Chicup, and call me what you like. My beliefs are a conscious, deliberate, well-thought-out choice. It's the only logical choice I could make, because I don't want to NOT believe. Your mileage may vary.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Chicup

If you NEED to reinterpret ancient manuscripts to decide weather giving mutual pleasure is a sin worthy of gods contempt and punishment I feel sorry for you.

I am neither a Christian (a fairly recent development) nor an atheist. Mostly because doing a lot of reading from both sides has revealed an amazing amount of arrogance and intolerance on both sides. I suppose somewhere in the middle is where you will find the open-minded...

If you NEED to belittle the faith of others because of some sense of entitlement or a desire to otherwise compensate for some insecurity, then I feel sorry for you.

Spoomonkey

[spectraschain]

You make it sound like those who believe in something they can't see or prove are fools

This blind faith has always facinated me...intuition, you know i love to read you, indulge me with a little spin on religion.
When I read this...

If I can get through life from birth to death happily, feeling that my life has meaning and worth, living with hope of something better.....

...I think, having lived "on the fence" for all of my life, I can take this and work with it. I mean, who wouldn't want this? Utopia, I believe that's where you said you were headed...Mom said that's where she was headed...I hope she made it, very deserving.
Then, as usual, reality rears it's ugly head. Nearly forty thousand third world children died last night, forty thousand more today, and tomorrow? Yep, forty thousand more...
How do believers deal with the cold, hard facts? I watched Mom deal with it in her "holier than thou" attitude...if in fact these children had believed, or had been born of believers, they of course would be spared...HUH?
I 'm not baiting you (for a welcome change, I'm sure), I am interested in your take on my concerns...ya know I luv ya...

Sorry for the hijack...sue me...

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by spectraschain

This blind faith has always facinated me...

When it comes right down to it, any faith is blind. It's faith's defining characteristic. And science is nothing without its theories. There is no disputing that we've figured out a lot of stuff and proven it scientifically, but we're by no means gods. We aren't omniscient, omnipresent nor omnipotent. Having never been there to witness firsthand the creation of the universe, the Big Bang theory is just another man's faith. I think the creation story in the bible is a dumbed down version of what really happened, and it has been filtered through millenia of oral tradition and translation. I don't know exactly how things came about, and I'm okay with that. I don't have all the answers. But in the meantime, it's fun to imagine that someday we'll all know where Jimmy Hoffa is, and who shot Kennedy. We'll all know how many grains of sand there are on any given beach. We'll know if there is life on other planets. For the time being, though, we're like fetuses in a womb, unable to conceive of concepts like "eternity". So I'm just waiting.

Originally Posted by spectraschain

Then, as usual, reality rears it's ugly head. Nearly forty thousand third world children died last night, forty thousand more today, and tomorrow? Yep, forty thousand more...
How do believers deal with the cold, hard facts? I watched Mom deal with it in her "holier than thou" attitude...if in fact these children had believed, or had been born of believers, they of course would be spared...HUH?
I 'm not baiting you (for a welcome change, I'm sure), I am interested in your take on my concerns...ya know I luv ya...

Again, I don't have all the answers. The harsh realities of this life really suck. I have no idea why God created all these lives only to take them back again. Perhaps only to prove the point that this life really doesn't amount to a hill of beans. If this is all we have, then it's not much. I need to feel there's more to life than a single lifetime. In the grander scheme of things, this go-round is the equivalent of a ride on a roller coaster...or the merry go round for those who choose it. Some rides last longer than others. Being a believer doesn't make anyone immune to misfortune. If anything, it might make you more prone to it. God pushes us and challenges us. Our reward for a job well done is more work and more responsibility. We're given what we can handle, no more no less. I can't say I agree with your Mom's beliefs. Changing your beliefs doesn't change your life's circumstances; it just gives you a different way to deal with them. The goal of ministering to those who have not yet heard "the good news" is not to change who they are and their culture, but to bring them comfort and goodwill, and to help them out if we can. It's to enable them to live the fullest lives they can and share a faith in something more than what they know of this world.

That's just my take on things. It's a hurtin' world we've got here. All we can do is what we can do help it stop hurting itself.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

If you NEED to belittle the faith of others because of some sense of entitlement or a desire to otherwise compensate for some insecurity, then I feel sorry for you.

Challenging isn't belittling, and quite frankly I think its about time more people challenged it. Religion is perhaps the greatest source of misery on the planet, not comfort.

Find me a war in the name of atheism, or a peace brought about by religion. Perhaps its time we got sick about tip toeing around it because we don't want to offend someone who can't logically defend their point of view.

So please keep your smarm on this one to yourself, I feel sorry for religious people, I don't enjoy making them squirm but I think we would all be better off if we dropped our respective mythologies and that requires some squirming.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Chicup

I think we would all be better off if we dropped our respective mythologies.

Are you prepared to drop yours?

I would assume that by "mythologies" you mean that which you can not prove, but accept by some measure of faith. In which case, we are all in the same boat - with your mythologies no better than anyone else's.

Atheism is only another form of faith. And if it works for you, gives you some sense of intellectual comfort, I will not put you down for that. But thinking it makes you somehow superior to other people (i.e. you know the "truth" that others seem unable to grasp) is nothing more than reverse fundamentalism.

Spoomonkey

[fun4Ds]

hummmmmm hope no one minds if i follow these posts.

i kinda like this stuff sometimes.

i like seeking inlightenment from other people and places.thanks