Swinging vs. Religion: Your Thoughts

[She_n_Jaybee]

Somewhat related to this thread, or at least to the preceding post: Has anyone read "The Hero With 1000 Faces", by Joseph Campbell? It's somewhat of an attempt to tie together all the recurring imagery of our stories, religious and mythological. I found it to be very provocative and it has several biblical references that support Searcher's post. Not the most thrilling reading, but still worthwhile in my opinion.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by intuition897

It's a pretty simple plan, actually. Don't know why people have to get their panties all in a knot about things they know nothing about. And I don't know where they get the idea that complacency and ignorance are the model of Christian living. Jesus Christ was a serious shit disturber. Always doing and saying the unexpected, telling us to look for the Spirit of God in the least expected places. Telling us that the big secret is to turn everything we know upside down and inside out, and we'll find the real truth of it. That strength is weakness, and weakness is the real strength. That the greatest void has the greatest potential for greatness. That the thing that's right is usually the more difficult path to take. That life is something we have to work at. That greed leads to emptiness, and that generosity leads to abundance. Everything was so very contrary to the way we THINK things are supposed to work.

First, I loved your Monet analogy. It makes complete sense.

I was raised Greek Orthodox, so I have a Christian background, but found that Earth-based and Eastern religions a better fit for how I look at the world and started investigating them a while back. It's amazing that many Christians would look at Buddhism as being of the Devil because it's not Christian, however when examined carefully there are many parallels between the teachings of the Buddha and of Jesus Christ. Everything you just said above has also been said by Buddha, just in a different way.

Mr. WS

[intuition897]

Well you can't argue with truth. And at the risk of sounding blasphemous to the traditional Christian's ear, Jesus didn't hold the patent on most of it. Okay, He holds the patent on the part about Him being God's Son, but the rest of it was just basic basic truths that were so simple, they were confusing. He was waking people up to a truth they needed to hear, but didn't even know they were missing.

[CurioslyShy]

OK, I'll bite...

We are both Christians and attend church regularly. If you read our 'newbie introduction' post, you already knew this. I think a couple posters got close to my point, but I'd like to throw it out there.

The biblical 'sins' of sexuality were focused on fulfilling one's own desires, and in the case of adultery, without the knowledge and consent of their partner. If swinging is all about bringing the 2 of us closer together, than that is what we focus on.

I love the fact that someone brought up the Monet illustration- I've been realizing in my own spiritual walk how much the Bible is making 1 big point: God only accepts perfection/ We aren't perfect/ We need Him and his forgiveness. Paul talks in Galations about how the 'rules' of Bible are there only to point out that we aren't perfect! If you live by the law, you are judged by the law. It is true that Christians and a lot of churches get caught up in their own social club where the only entrance fee is measuring up. I feel they give Christians a bad name. Just the same, I'm sure there are swingers that have their own view of the practice and give swinging a bad name as well. As we discussed in another post, we're not about trying to obtain the title of swinger, and we are not interested in anyone's opinion of our spirituality, except God's.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by CurioslyShy

It is true that Christians and a lot of churches get caught up in their own social club where the only entrance fee is measuring up. I feel they give Christians a bad name. Just the same, I'm sure there are swingers that have their own view of the practice and give swinging a bad name as well. As we discussed in another post, we're not about trying to obtain the title of swinger, and we are not interested in anyone's opinion of our spirituality, except God's.

Nicely put, CS. As you said yourself, people are simply imperfect. The sooner we realize our limitations and start asking for help, the better off we'll all be. This is the "finding strength in weakness" thing. It takes a strong person to admit his or her weakness and to lay down his or her pride to ask for help. A lot of people don't get that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as an example, men tend to have this hang-up that showing weakness is weakness. They figure that we're going to find them undesirable once we find out - *gasp* - that they're human. That they have feelings, and fears. That sometimes they don't know the answers. That they love us, and we have become one of their vulnerabilities. The truth is, I fell in love with just that in Mr. intuition. It takes remarkable strength to trust someone to such a degree.

And about obtaining titles and categorizing one's self and others: that's such a silly thing. We just do it so we can make sense of our world. Calling something by the name we give it doesn't change what it actually is, though. There's just Truth and Non-Truth. The only absolute beyond this is Love. Let people judge if they want to. As long as they're not jamming their noses in our business, I could care less what they think of us. All I'm concerned with is being true to myself and living an abundant life. If each of us did that, instead of measuring ourselves constantly against one another, we'd all get along just fine, and we would lead healthy, happy, productive lives. "They" call swingers degenerates, immoral lowlifes, and hell-bound hedonists. "They" say we're ALL bad. I say that it only takes one exception to turn a statement like that into a lie. So all we can each do is work on being one of those exceptions.

[dayhiker]

Originally Posted by CurioslyShy

God only accepts perfection/ We aren't perfect/ We need Him and his forgiveness. Paul talks in Galations about how the 'rules' of Bible are there only to point out that we aren't perfect! If you live by the law, you are judged by the law.

Very well put shy, I think you can add another aspect to your thought. Paul says over adn over we are not under the law but under grace. But works of the law shall no one be righteous. Love fulfills the law. Love covers a multitude of sins. jesus is concern about the condition our heart is in because out of the heart the mouth speaks.

All these ideas in the Bible to me show that in our love relationship with God he isn't about obeying an ever growing list dos and don'ts but our heart loving him, ourselves and our neighbor. Some want to accomplish a lot in life. That is fine, but I just want to live in God's presence and enjoy being around my friends. I don't see relationships as being about being perfect but about being a freind, accepting them for who they are, who God created them to be.

dayhiker

[dinkydow4us]

This was a great thread! Lots of food for thought. I was raised in a christian home where sex was hardly ever talked about, and if it was, you came away with a sence of shame It caused me to put girls on pedistals which resulted in missing out on some of the secrets of life I realized later on that the churches policy about sex was total B.S. because the real world doesn't work that way. It can't, becaues it's against human nature. I now beleave that sexual pleasure is your birthright, and no one has the right to take that from you. God likes to see honest hearts and happy people. My guess is, there's a lot of people in the life style who fit that mold I don't go to church much anymore, because I've found that I can get a lot closer to God sitting in a deer stand on a frosty fall morning at sunrise than I can sitting in church listening to cheaters, child molesters, and wife beaters, all with Bible in hand, telling me what I have to do to get to hevan. <EG> Good luck to all, D. D.