church

[SADIEBABY5656]

oh my goodness......!!!! what an incredibly negative view some of you have about God and the Bible...while i am still wrestling with some of this myself, i know for a fact while most church institutions don't deal with the sexual issue as they should, i do know that the Bible and God does....He sent Jesus ,His Son to die for us...how much more love can one have than that.. and He created sex to be enjoyed, though I do think He has some boundaries there and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! even in this lifestyle there has to be some boundaries, God is no different, though what makes Christianity different than other beliefs is that it is a GIFT based upon God's grace and not any of our goodness, just His...God is great and He loves us and whatever I do contrary to scripture, the church may not be ready to forgive me, but God is ALWAYS!!!!!! religion down thru the ages has given Him a very bad name and all He wants to do is love us. that doesn't mean that i don't want to indulge my wild side, but God is just like I am as a parent, there is NOTHING my kids can do to keep me from loving and forgiving them. lol, sb

[bnc4fun21]

Matthew chapter 5 verse 27-30 is where you will find the new testaments view on adultery covered by Jesus.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by bnc4fun21

Matthew chapter 5 verse 27-30 is where you will find the new testaments view on adultery covered by Jesus.

Of course, you meant to include:

"After reading these selected verses, you may want to read them in context, keeping in mind the intention of the 'sermon on the mount' that this is a part of. You will also want to try to take into account the cultural distinctions at the time."

Because, we certainly want to stay away from the hermeneutical error of proof-texting, don't we? Nothing is worse than something a big as theology being distilled to a few pet verses...

Because, in context, the verses you pointed out support the idea that women were still viewed largely as possessions. Thank God further reading of the New Testament frees us from that cultural oppression!

Don't you agree?

Spoomonkey

[Honey_Tampa]

Originally Posted by SADIEBABY5656

God is great and He loves us and whatever I do contrary to scripture, the church may not be ready to forgive me, but God is ALWAYS!!!!!!

As a Christian believer, I smiled, and thoroughly enjoyed, the passion you put into this message, Sadie. And I share it with you. I do believe though that this type of gushing falls on deaf ears for the cynics .. and maybe even sounds like drivel. But don't let it surpress your passion, hon.

I've only just found God, myself, within the last 8 years [I'm 33]. And it happened only a year before I discovered swinging. I feel pretty confused about how God feels about swinging because, simply, I've only read like 30 verses in the Bible. So, thank you Bible scholars here for adding your 2 cents and giving us lamens a little more insight.

If God is truly against swinging, I honestly don't know what I would do. Stop swinging? I don't know. When my parents asked me to not date that guy in high school who was 5 yrs older than me, did I honor that? I'm afraid I didn't. Now...to purposefully be a sinner and meet His disappointed but loving face at Heaven's gates?? I will have to put some serious consideration into that one...... I feel pretty torn.............

[dayhiker]

Originally Posted by bnc4fun21

Matthew chapter 5 verse 27-30 is where you will find the new testaments view on adultery covered by Jesus.

I love how so many think that this verse says (how I'd word what their view) men are committing adultery every time they look at a women. Or to put if from the other side ... men are to be asexual tell they are in bed with their wife and then return to being asexual beings till their wife feels gracious enough to want sexual relations again.

I just returned from a men's retreat this weekend. What a blessing. One of those was how God added to what he has been teaching me. In the book, "4 Women Only" Shaunti Feldhahn tries to explain how men think and feel about 8 topics in words women will understand. She interviews and surveyed over 1000 men. In the chapter about sex and men's mind, she says men told her they think about sex and ever pretty women they see has an effect on them. Even the Christian men we would consider most pure.

Brian, our speaker this weekend, said that a '97 survey of men attending Promise Keepers weekends were asked, what sins they were tempted with. All but one sin was in the single digits. Even anger, #2, only had 8-9% of them men saying it was a problem. But sexual temptation, 62% of men said it was an issue for them. The church is very perplexed about how to get men to think about sex less. And so not to face this temptation.

My view (opinion) is that these two observations by Dedicated Christian men shows that the church is defining sexual sin way stricter than God or the Bible intends for us. These men weren't saying I want to rape women, I want to seduce women and then desert them, nor were they saying I want to forsake my children and the mother of my children. They were saying (as I'd also say), when I see certain women I feel drawn to her. I feel a desire for sex. I feel an excitement between my legs. Most of these men feel that that is sinful or at least has a good chance of leading them to sin. Right now my study has lead me to say that's the way God has created most men. Its not the least bit sinful. If I desired to or decided to rape a woman or seduce a women as a result of those God created desires then it would be been sin. Or to put it in terms of swinging, if I pushed a woman to have sex after she said "NO", and I wouldn't accept, "NO" then I've sinned.

Well, that's what I think today.
dayhiker

[WesternSwing]

dayhiker, I have this hypothesis about what you just said. Whenever you get one extreme, there will always be the opposite extreme. For example, one of the freakiest women I ever dated (and I say freakiest in the funnest way!) was an ex-Mormon missionary. The pedulumn was pulled so far to one side for so long that when it was let go it swung all the way to the other side. This girl went from uber-conservative Mormon missionary to doing stuff that would make a pornstar blush.

Watching the news supports my hypothesis even further. It seems the ones always nailed on sex related crimes are the ones that are the most surprising, the purest, best, most prominant members of their congregation. The neighors are always on TV saying stuff like "He is such a nice man and taught the Sunday school and all. This is such a shock."

"Chastity: the most unnatural of the sexual perversions." Aldous Huxley

Mr. WS

[dayhiker]

yes, WesternSwing, I've seen that pendulem swing myself. The stronger one says no to something the stronger the desire becomes quite often.

But some are content and comfortable living in the extremes.
dayhiker

[intravox]

For the Christians:

Those who have put their faith in Jesus Christ as your savior, and you know that all your sins past and future have been forgiven and forgotten and it is a gift not of works; only for His grace. Swinging doesn't condemn you, but you may cause for others little brothers to fall. And you know this is not right. (Gal 5:19-21)

For the non believers.

It is not ok, to mock of christians, the Bible or God. In fact it was profetized, and as in the days of Noah... There will be one day (believe it or not) where all tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord, wheter in heaven... or in hell (and yes, the hell is a place of torment, that was prepared for the devil and its angels) "Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: [and] not that he should return from his ways, and live? Ezek 18:23"

Originally Posted by intuition897

I think the Holy Bible has become something that its message actually prohibits: an idol. I mean, come on! It's wood pulp and ink covered by the preserved skin of a dead animal. And while the words in it are divinely inspired, they have been translated by man. Pure light through dirty lenses, if you will.

Do you mean that the authenticity of the Bible's message is null ????

For everyone:
* The bible was written in a span of 1400 years
* 40 different authors from all ways in life (Doctor, Tax collector, Kings, Fishermen, Shepperds)
* written in 3 continents (Asia, Africa and Europe)
And here is the most fascinating thing, embrace yourself, ready?: It accords on the consistent theme.- God's plan for human redemption.

But of course, those who have a Bachelor Degree in Bible knew this already, so this last note is for the non-scholars like me.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by intravox

For the non believers.

It is not ok, to mock of christians, the Bible or God.

Non-believers? Quit mocking those that aren't Christian. Just because I don't believe as you believe, doesn't mean I don't believe.

Mr. WS

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by intravox

Swinging doesn't condemn you, but you may cause for others little brothers to fall. And you know this is not right. (Gal 5:19-21)

Yep... That's why we don't swing in church...

That and the fact that the pews are too hard

Spoomonkey

[jstlkng]

I don't know how many of you guys have seen this site: http://www.themarriagebed.com/printer/whatisokay.shtml but I believe it is quite thought provoking. The authors are Christians and very open minded sexually although they do not swing and it seems they take the side that swinging is morally wrong. Just thought it might make the discussion here more well rounded. Spoo, I agree with you, the pews are too hard.

[beaverz]

Warning another opinion ahead:
I’m not an expert on the bible, but I will play one on the internet. I have done some research (not school related, for my own understanding) on the bible and religion.

Posted by: Intravox
For everyone:
* The bible was written in a span of 1400 years
* 40 different authors from all ways in life (Doctor, Tax collector, Kings, Fishermen, Shepperds)
* written in 3 continents (Asia, Africa and Europe)
And here is the most fascinating thing, embrace yourself, ready?: It accords on the consistent theme.- God's plan for human redemption.

Not for everyone, only for those that are bored and have nothing better to do:

Intravox you are correct, but the main thing you didn’t add was the books of the bible was all written by man, assembled by man and interpreted by man. Most of the context of the bible is from dreams/visions and past events (sometimes hundreds of years old). The bible was assembled hundred of years after the books were written and there are questions why certain books were left out (book of Thomas). The context of the bible has been/will be interpreted many different ways. Even Christians can’t agree on the interpretation of parts of the bible.

The bible has only been available to a very small percentage of mankind. It is less than 2000 years old, was only in Europe for 1500 years, and has only become available to most of the world in the last 200 years. Many societies have done very well without the church.

History has shown man tends to do things in his own best interest. The bible can be very cruel, from condoned rape, murder, dismemberment, slavery, adultery and animal cruelty. These traits seem to be more of traits of men, then God, and what is scary many churches have utilized many of these traits.

Many Christians (not all) are under the assumption that non-Christians do not have the ability or the right to determine what is right or wrong for them. God touches us all very differently.

Disclaimer:
The above is the sole-expression of Beaverz and is not the opinion of this site. Beaverz takes no responsibility of any loses of souls do to the above. The opinion is not valid in New Jersey or Vatican City.

[dayhiker]

[QUOTE=intravox]For the Christians:
Swinging doesn't condemn you, but you may cause for others little brothers to fall. And you know this is not right. (Gal 5:19-21)
[QUOTE]

Intravox, I suspect that if a Christian will fall is reading these posts he has already fallen. The reason I post is so they can be free from the condemnation the church has put on them and enjoy the freedom Christ died to give us. We are free to love others and free from the law. Its my prayer that once they know this they can return to faith.

I have read themarriagebed.com and found it to be a blessing. Not many Christians can even be as free to discuss sex as that site is. While they would call swinging a sin and I'd agree that sense they believe it is a sin, then for them it would be a sin to swing. Rom.13-15. So they are doing a lot of good. I also pray my posts here help people who want to live by faith and swing.

dayhiker

[Paphian]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

Non-believers? Quit mocking those that aren't Christian. Just because I don't believe as you believe, doesn't mean I don't believe.

Mr. WS

Boy is that ever right. 'Tis exceedingly unfortunate that one of the side-effects of the 'evangelical movement' in the USA is that there's a marked tendency for a significant portion of its adherents to assume that anyone not conforming to their particular interpretation of christianity is somehow 'wrong' and 'not christian'. Couple that with the involvement of the same in politics and there's a recipe for real problems.

Originally Posted by SadieBaby5656

oh my goodness......!!!! what an incredibly negative view some of you have about God and the Bible

I don't think it's anyone's view of god or the bible that's really the problem. It's really a negative reaction to the loudly trumpeted (via quotation of scripture and its supposed 'literal, only' interpretation based on the narrow views of a few sects) claims of inerrancy by some sects that is the problem. There are literally dozens of sects of christianity, both 'main-line' and evangelical, not only in the US but throughout the world. Each has a given way of interpreting scripture. I fail to see how any human being (or sect) can make a valid claim to being the sole 'correct' interpreter of that scripture, for (assuming one believes) no one can claim to know the mind of god.

Yet that seems to be happening more and more, and is, in every way, just as dangerous as the claims of some muslim sects that they alone know god's will. What's 'wrong' are the repeated claims by the SBC and AoG (to name just a couple of the most noisy sects) in the persons of guys like Falwell and Dobson (to once again name a couple of the most noisy claimants) and their followers to know the 'one true way'.

Frankly, unless and until god comes along and publicly tells all the rest of us that some specific group or individual is correct, the claims of inerrancy in interpretation made by guys like Falwell and Dobson (or groups like the AoG or the SBC) are incredibly arrogant (and to my mind, anyway, most unchristian). They are human beings like everyone else, and I fail to see how their claims of inerrancy of interpretation are any different than the claims of papal infallibility that they profess not to believe or the claims of various muslim clerics that they find to be anathema. Whatever happened to the biblical ideas of humility and tolerance?

All of this is just my $0.02, obviously. I'm sticking with the idea that, "An thou harm no one..." (which is not an endorsement of wicca, but merely a recognition of the fact that it's probably a good idea to live one's life in a relatively humble, charitable way) is the best approach.

And to bring the focus back to bear directly on swinging--how can a celebration of the gift of sexual pleasure (for, if one believes, how can it be other than a gift from god?) be in any way wrong? Assuming that no one is harmed by the practice (which is certainly what swinging is about), it seems clear that swinging is no more a religiously proscribed activity than any other activity aimed at doing some form of 'good', however great or small.

[SADIEBABY5656]

Okay, I am very passionate about this. I think all who are reading this know that. Jesus said in John 14:6, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one comes to the Father except thru Me." Now one has to decide one of two things about Christ, He is who He says, or He was the craziest man on earth. Also in 2 Timothy 3:16 for those who doubt the inerrancy of Scripture...the Bible says that, "All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking and correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." So at this point, either we accept that by faith or we don't. God does give us the freedon to do so. He will not force one to spend eternity with Him, if you chose not to spend this very short life in His presence. I happen to accept it. I also know, Sweet Honey Tampa that when I stand before God, He will only see me thru the blood and righteousness of Jesus. Not a liscense to sin, but liberty to be who I am and know that God fully accepts me.