Christian Swingers?

[TomDenise]

Rain is good, but uncontrolled rain will wash you away.

"Matthew 22:36-40: “ Then a lawyer asked our Lord Jesus, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” Jesus' answer: “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.” Here we find Jesus saying the opposite of what law keepers say. From the law the second one is just like the first, equal in importance.

What’s Incredible neither one of these are part of the 10 commandments. This first one is found in Deut.6:5 listed under the commandments and statutes and judgments, and the 2nd one is from Lev.19:18 which is alongside the moral laws. Yet Jesus said the 2nd is like the first , unfortunately it is not part of the 10 either. The 10 commandments don’t contain the two greatest commandments but the law of Moses.! Sorry.

In Mark 12:28-31, One of the scribes having heard them reasoning together perceiving he had answered them well, asked him “which is the first commandment of all?” (first is translated most important not a numerical order) then Jesus said, the first of all the commandments is this here O Israel the lord our God our God is one and love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and with all thy strength this is the first or... “THERE IS NONE OTHER COMMANDMENT GREATER THEN THESE.” (Mark 12:31)."

Lets see, love God first, ok, he established multiple wives and the concubine system in the OT, so he must be ok with it. Check: Good here. Of course we must comply with the law of the land.

Love your brother second to God, ok, knowing that loves WORKS NO ILL TO HIS NEIGHBOR, check: Good here. Swinging doenst bring the element of CHEATING (yes CHEATING) into sex so therefore I am not defrauding the husband by cheating (comitting adultry) with his wife. Remember the woman brought to Jesus to be stoned? Where was her husband? SHE WAS CHEATING.

IMO, and my opinion only, cheating-deception-breaking trust is the issue.

You can find plenty of verses against being DRUNK. Moderate drinking seems to be allowed. Hmmmmmmmmm Perhaps the same principal applies here. It seems to reason God doesnt really care what we do as long as we dont offend God or offend another human.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by sweetnnasty

"sex outside of marriage = BAD!" ...... so if we are not together but know about what each other is doing is it still considered outside of marriage? And what if we are together when doing it but not in the same room?

Will never know unless you ask!!

I think "not bad". These instances are still something you are doing together, if not physically together. It is something that you both may enjoy. You are both getting something out of it. For many the whole solo play can be exciting and erotic. We know a couple where she plays alone with a male then he comes home and they have great sex playing the "you've been a naughty girl, haven't you?" game. It's their gig and it works well for them.

Mr. WS

[xtraman4u]

I'm a Christian and a married male swinging with my wife's blessing. Due to health problems she is limited to how much sex she can have. We have struggled with the question of right and wrong about this topic often. As far as the 10 commandments, we all break all of them in God's eye. That is why Jesus came to offer salvation thru Him! Jesus said that when we lust we have committed adultery already. I dare say there is not an adult anywhere who hasn't lusted after someone before. When Jesus died, His blood replaced the law (10 commandments) as the means to salvation. I have met many wonderful couples who professed to be Christians. I believe most of them are genuine in their belief. Is swinging wrong? I don't know. Is overeating? Losing your temper? Etc, Etc? This is my first post on here and I am glad to be a part of this forum.

[GerdOEvert]

In the past year, I have had the opportunity to read portions of the Bible in some unstructured Bible Classes. I don't remember the first citation, but early in the Old Testament is a verse and section that is clear in the condemnation of swinging. So what?

The Bible gives us general rules for living and general ethics in a first codification.

A more serious question would be -- If all couples became "swingers" in the lifestyle, what would it do for the culture? I do think the answer is pretty plain. We would be more depraved than we already are. [Sorry to say]

Those of us in the "lifestyle" who "swing" have some unusual sexual and psychological needs, and we are fulfililng them. But do not let us think it either is or really should be standard practice.

If you looked closely at the psychologicval make up of those in the "lifestyle" I do think you would find many more quirks & twists than average.

Otto & Eileen

[BorisNatasha]

Re: the missing commandments

Didn't you guys ever see History of the World Part I? There are 5 missing commandments, and that's why the world is so screwed up!

Boris

[TomDenise]

Originally Posted by GerdOEvert

but early in the Old Testament is a verse and section that is clear in the condemnation of swinging. Otto & Eileen

I would like to read it if you can find it. Thanks

[Carol_Danny]

Originally Posted by BorisNatasha

Didn't you guys ever see History of the World Part I? There are 5 missing commandments, and that's why the world is so screwed up!

Yep, Mel Brooks as Moses dropping the 3rd tablet. That was funny!

[intuition897]

Been reading some of the responses since I logged on last, and if there's anything I feel compelled to comment on it's the generally distorted view of what Christianity actually is.

You know how I'm always harping on about how 'vanilla' folks just don't understand us swingers? How they can't see that it's not about the act of sex with others, that it's actually a loving act between consenting partners, that it fosters intimacy, that it's about respect and the freedom to choose. Sure there are those who swing who shouldn't, who coerce their partners, allow themselves to be coerced or otherwise do it for the wrong reasons, but they are not representative of what it's supposed to be about in its purest form.

There are probably a few folks out there nodding and saying 'amen!' to that, but it's the same deal with Christianity. We're all getting tarred with the same stick because some folks who practice Christianity can't see the forest for the trees. All of these good things that we experience in the lifestyle, all of these positives, are very much in keeping with a Christian lifestyle. It was never supposed to be about being perfect or following the rules to a T, nor was it supposed to be about trying in vain to please an impossible-to-please god. It's not about killing off a part of yourself for the sake of 'holiness'. It's about living a full life, balanced and moderate, seeking to perpetuate all that is good in this world, cheerfully making the most of what you've got. Well, there's more to it than just that, but that's what day to day Christian living means to me.

Someone said they didn't think they'd want to play with Christians. Well...I wouldn't want to play with them (the Christians) either if they felt that swinging was wrong and were doing it anyway. Personally, I strongly believe that if the marriages involved can handle it, there's no sin in it. End of story. And that's where the problem with religion would end, too, right? Was theere any other reason to not want to play with them? (Not a rhetorical question, I'm actually asking.)

[sweetnnasty]

Very well said intuition897...

The only problem I seen with some of these posts is ppl not understanding the question... I didn't ask anyone to tell me what they think is wrong with it, but I did ask if there is anyone who is doing it and how they felt about it... please remember that God says do not judge anyone b/c he does not judge you... so with that said thanks to everyone who gave some good advice on the matter... it has helped alot.

[TomDenise]

7th Commandment; Exodus 20:Verse 14 (King James Version) - "Thou shalt not commit adultery."
- This referred to a man engaging in sexual intercourse with a woman who was either married or betrothed to another man.

Then what would you call sex between a married man and his concubine or maidservant?

Genesis 16:2 "... go into my maid..." Sarah send her husband, Abraham, into her maidservant Hagar. Did Abraham "sin"??

Just an example of interpretation.

II Samual 5:13, "David took him more concubines..."

I Kings 11:3 King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

Something to think about. Was David, Abraham and King Solomon errant sinners? Are they all in Hell?

Interpretation is needed. For any verse that can be interpreted one way needs to be balanced by the whole of the Bible.

According to the verse quoted above King David, King Solomon and Abraham are all sinners.

Dont listen to fundamentalist loonie toons.

[jstlkng]

TomDenise said: Something to think about. Was David, Abraham and King Solomon errant sinners? Are they all in Hell?

Interpretation is needed. For any verse that can be interpreted one way needs to be balanced by the whole of the Bible.

According to the verse quoted above King David, King Solomon and Abraham are all sinners.

Very good point. Also there are loonies everywhere...not just in fundamentalist ranks. The sins of Abraham, David and Solomon are more far reaching than any supposed sex sin. It happens that you mention three of the greatest men in the Bible so what does the Bible say about these "sinners"? Abraham was made "father" of a great nation...the nation from which came Jesus, the Savior of the world. David was said by God to be "a man after God's own heart." and Solomon, a man of peace, was given the responsibility of building God's temple. He also wrote the greatest love book the world has ever known, The Song of Solomon. Both He and David wrote many of the Psalms.

As a "fundamentalist" Baptist preacher, let me say that God is far more concerned about our relationship with Him than he is with our relationships with other people, whether in or out of bed.

Happy Swinging,

jstlkng

[TomDenise]

Well said jstlkng!!!!!!!!!!
Read back to my post #31 and you will see where I make the EXACT point that you just said.

And you well said that the short comings of those three great men were well documented. None of their errors involved sex or multiple partners except David and Bathsheba, where David had her husband sent to the front where he would be killed, so David could have her. Davids sins were, #1, not being with the army during a war and #2, staying home and watching the neighbors wife take a bath. And lusting after her to the point of arranging her husband to be placed in harms way. He paid dearly too, God took the first born son.

Lust and covetousness seem to be a big problem. But you can lust after your neighbors car too.

I wish you would post more of your thoughts on this subject.

[jstlkng]

I appriciate your observations TomDenise...the definition of adultry is best seen in the actions David took with Bathsheba. Had he asked Uriah, he probably would have gotten exactly what he wanted...after all he was the king. That's what happened with Abraham and Sarah when the neighbor king asked for Sarah. Abraham's problem was he gave Sarah away as his sister (she was his sister and his wife), not his wife.

The real problem with most people is the inability to tell the truth openly for all to know. Most folks like to scheme to get their way when many times all it takes is to simply ask.

jstlkng

[TomDenise]

http://www.libchrist.com/

[HappyPeople]

And that's where the problem with religion would end, too, right? Was theere any other reason to not want to play with them? (Not a rhetorical question, I'm actually asking.)

I believe that I said that playing with Christians probably wouldn't work for us. I believe that I would be somewhat uncomfortable. Knowing that someone is a person of faith kinda puts me on guard a bit; I feel like I should watch what I say closely as not to offend them. While they probably wouldn't get offended by me, it's just a feeling that I get and it's hard to shake.

I say this meaning no disrespect to persons of faith... It's mostly a "me" problem, not them. I wasn't raised in a home with a belief system nor do I know many people who are religious so when I am around them, I kinda tense up a bit.