Christian Swingers?

[Carol_Danny]

Originally Posted by intuition897

I rarely argue with Christians about non-monogamous lifestyles unless they choose to press the issue with me.

I don't argue with them either. If it is their choice to remain monogamous, and they are truly honest about it, I applaud them. They have their religious convictions, and they stand by them, as they should. I fault no person for that.

But just don't go telling me how I should live my life. That I will not tolerate. Because of our moral beliefs, we have very few (well okay, none) friends who are true Christians. We lead very different lives and have so little common ground that friendship would be close to impossible.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Carol_Danny

7th Commandment; Exodus 20:Verse 14 (King James Version) - "Thou shalt not commit adultery." - This referred to a man engaging in sexual intercourse with a woman who was either married or betrothed to another man.

Yes - the Old Testament, including this commandment, did treat women/wives as property. Don't go sowing your seed in another man's field...

But - if you read the ENTIRE Bible, you will find that the "wives as property" concept was addressed. Women were given the same rights and freedoms as men. The purpose of the law - and this commandment were to teach folks how not to injure each other. Once that object lesson was taught and completed, it was irrelevant in the bigger picture of grace.

So - this verse is an excellent launching point to discuss why women are no longer owned - and why they have the same freedom as married men did in those days.

Spoomonkey (not lapsed)

[dayhiker]

I'm a Christian and don't see anything wrong with swinging for many of the reasons that have been mentioned above.
In my studying what the Bible said about sex I found that we have changed several of the word meanings in our day from what they meant in Bible days.

Adultery being one of them. Its not often that ancient texts define the words they use. But the Bible defines adultery. Lev.20:10 And the man that commits adultery with another man’s wife, even he that commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Countryman – The husband could commit adultery only by having intercourse with the wife (or betrothed) of another man; if he had sexual relations with a slave, a prostitute, a concubine, or a divorced or widowed woman, this did not constitute adultery against his own marriage.

It seems to me that the church today wants a category of sins under the title of sex sins. So far in my study of Biblical times there were property sins (like stealing) and personal sins (like hurting someone) bit sexual sins. Obviously sex can be used in both of these categories to do harm.

The other category in the Bible where there are sexual sins is the sex that was part of worshiping false gods (idols). Since most people today in the west aren’t worshipping idol, let alone having sex as part of worshipping them, the scriptures that speak of this I find are still preached but the idol part is stropped. This results in sexual activities that were sin because they were done to worship false Gods, but were not inherently wrong to now become wrong in themselves.

That’s how I see it, but I’m still studying.
God bless, Rom. 14:22 The faith you have, keep to yourself before God. Blessed is the one who does not judge himself by what he approves.
dayhiker

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Carol_Danny

7th Commandment; Exodus 20:Verse 14 (King James Version) - "Thou shalt not commit adultery."
- This referred to a man engaging in sexual intercourse with a woman who was either married or betrothed to another man.

Since most Swingers are married, I would say that it is very contradictory to Christian teachings, and therefore the idea of "Christian Swingers" is a great example of an oxymoron (by your own definition)

-- Danny (the lapsed Catholic

Sorry, Danny, I know you're addressing Spoomonkey. Mind if I comment?
I guess you're right that traditional Christians being swingers is a good example of an oxymoron. Traditional meaning mainstream. We're cool with being Christian AND swingers, but we don't interpret adultery the same way most people do. You're right, women were considered part of a man's property along with slaves, real estate and livestock. Since the concept of "owning" a person is no longer applicable, our take on adultery should be reassessed. At least, that's what I think. Adultery is, was, and always will be wrong because it means taking something that belongs to someone else and giving it away. It's the breaking of a promise and betraying the trust that was placed in you. That's what makes it wrong, not the sex. So... since we aren't breaking any promises or betraying any trust by doing what we do...it ain't adultery in our book. And the 'mainstream' can think what they like about that.

EDIT>> And Dayhiker, I just looked up Romans 14. That whole chapter pretty much says it all, doesn't it? It's not what we do, but why we do it and the spirit in which we go about it. Romans 14:14 - I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

And to paraphrase that: Nothing that God created is bad (including sex) unless it is abused. If a person feels that swinging is a sin, they should not do it. But if they are confident that they are not offending anyone - others, themselves, or God - by their activities, there is no sin in that.

[sweetnnasty]

Thanks for all the advice and input... you have made very strong points...

Hubby and I have been in this lifestyle for a couple of months and now he says that he keeps thinking of what God is thinking of him... is it just his nerves getting to him?

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by intuition897

I guess you're right that traditional Christians being swingers is a good example of an oxymoron.

Personally, I find "Christian grace" and/or "loving Christian" to be much more of an oxymoron - sadly - than "swinging Christian". Chances are, if that weren't so, Christianity wouldn't raise such an negative reaction, either here or in many of the other marginalized communities.

Spoomonkey

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by sweetnnasty

Thanks for all the advice and input... you have made very strong points...

Hubby and I have been in this lifestyle for a couple of months and now he says that he keeps thinking of what God is thinking of him... is it just his nerves getting to him?

No, it's not just nerves. Like that verse I quoted, if he feels that swinging is wrong and is offensive to God and does it anyway, IMO, it's called sin. Until he can engage in this kind of activity without the guilt of unresolved spiritual conflict hanging overhead, it won't be a healthy hobby for him.

My husband isn't the "religious" sort, but I am a Christian. What we do (and how we do it) does not contradict God's vision or His plan for us. What humans have made themselves to be and what God intended for us are two very different things. For me, swinging feels natural and although it isn't popular with Christians, for THIS Christian, I feel truer to the person God intended me to be than if we forced ourselves into the standard little monogamy mould that doesn't really fit us.

Have your hubby read Romans 14. No two people are alike, so it only makes sense that we should all worship in our own unique way.

[Carol_Danny]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

Personally, I find "Christian grace" and/or "loving Christian" to be much more of an oxymoron - sadly - than "swinging Christian". Chances are, if that weren't so, Christianity wouldn't raise such an negative reaction, either here or in many of the other marginalized communities.

Unfortunately, Christianity doesn't have a lock on those feelings. All religions have their fundamentalists and very conservative factions.

While not a Christian myself (yet I do consider myself to be a spiritual Agnostic), I hold respect for anyone who truly follows their beliefs, and have never had a problem with people of any faith. Although I believe if you say you are a Christian (or Jewish, Muslim, etc.) you should really act like one! 99% of the World's problems could be fixed if people practised what they preached!

[dayhiker]

intuition - Yes, I think you got Roman 14. This puts most of the evangelical church in the weak position and the christian swingers in the strong postion. I'm personally living Rom.14 as my wife woud say swinging is a sin. So while I don't see it as a sin, I can't go out and swing as that would hurt her. Rom. 13 says that love fulfulls the law. And love doesn't hurt ones neighbor.
This is why I find swinging to be OK for Christians. When couples swing with a desire to love each other they are fulfilling the Law of Love as the Bible talks about. Swingers also says, "no means no". They are willing to stop when a person is saying this hurts. They get to define what is hurt to them.
My wife tells me that the idea of swinging brings hurt to her. So I'm not talking to her about swinging let alone asking her to swing. As a Christian tho I am studing to understand it better and praying that my wife can move from the weak position to the strong.
I'm also talking with my pastors about it. Has that lead to some interesting talks. They see spouces that are hurt from adultery and porn addiction. They can't imagine that it can be any other way. They can't see swinging as a good thing. So a year has gone by and in just the last two weeks we have entered into a new part of our talks. They have finally to the place where they are willing to deal with the Bible and what it says on a new level. Its going to be interesting if they will be able to accept it. I'll have a lot of studing to do to faithfully present what I've been finding and I pray I can continue to let God's word teach me as well.
At any rate its all out in the open. The Bible says being in the light is good! even if it is kinda intense!
dayhiker

[sepacouple]

I checked out the forum section of the christianity.com site. very interesting topics. Found one that went on for 15 "pages" about whether christians should be seen at a Hooters resteraunt. Another was questioning whether or not a couple (married) should engage in oral sex, and I thought we got worked up on some topics on this site. I consider myself a christian also, but I have a hard time agreeing with some of their thoughts.

[TomDenise]

We consider ourselves Christian and are swingers. See no conflict at all. PM me if you want to continue this.

[jstlkng]

O.K. enough already...as a Christian and a person who has made it a policy to read the entire Bible through each year since I became a Christian over 38 years ago (and not just reading it, but studying its precepts to show myself approved to God,) let me provide a simple explanation of what it means to be a Christian. The first occurance of the term "Christian" is from a Greek work that means "little Christ ones" or "little imitators of Christ" and was coined by un-beleivers during Paul's time. It was a term of derision. None the less it was an accurate term. A Christian is simply one who trusts Christ for his destiny and trys to live like Christ during his life on this earth. I can only help in this area by reminding each of you that Christ asked the woman who was accused of adultry where her accusers were? You see, they had dissappeared after Christ had knealt and written in the sand with his finger. Do you ever wonder what it was that was written that made all those men dissappear? (I don't know either!) Christ did not condemn the woman, rather her forgave her of any sins she had committed. The entire story of what Christ did on this earth has never been told. The apostle John said all the books that could ever be written could not hold all the stories of what He did. But he did several things that I think are noteworthy. One, He refrained from unjust judgements. Two, He forgave freely. Three and I think most importantly, He fulfilled the Old Testament law completely and gave us a new law...the law of love. Some of you have stated that the things that keep you together as a couple are things other than sex. Certainly that is more Christ like than trying to tell Christians that to share each other sexually with others is wrong. If you don't appreciate the sermon please accept my profound appologies for delivering to those who don't want it, but I make no apologies for my sincere belief that "Christian Swingers" will never be an oxymoron. With love and grace in my heart for you all...

jstlkng

[HappyPeople]

I doubt that we'd feel very comfortable playing with Christians since we are both have negative feelings about Christianity. That said, I doubt Christian swingers would be interested in us at all.

As for if it fits with the Christian faith... As far as I understand it, the relationship between the individual Christian and thier god is unique so as long as they've got a grip on it with thier god, I assume that they are "good" as far as thier faith is concerned.

While particular bible verses can be extracted for or against swinging (or pretty much anything), the individual relationship with thier god as it relates to thier life come across as a much stronger message when viewing thier faith from the outside.

I could be waaaay off base though since I have only studied it, I've never practiced it.

[Charger500]

If you are a true Bible believing Born-again Christian the answer is simple...it's wrong. You can try to hunt around and find odd verses to rationalize the lifestyle but it's sexual immorality pure and simple.

Pretty judgemental huh? well, only if you believe what the Bible says is the true word of God.

Didn't mean to rain on the parade just my 2 cents

Charger500

[dayhiker]

Thanks for the rain. Rain should help me grow.

I've studied the Bible for 40 years and only got what you got when I ignored certian verses in the Bible. Once I accepted the whole Bible I had to change my mind. I'll look forward to meeting you in heaven.
dayhiker