Swinging and Christianity

[jstlkng]

Just so you will know we am not trying to bring out all the narrowminded condemners of swinging. We have already had preached to us about all the things that are wrong with swinging/extramarital sex. As Christians, we don't buy much of what organized Christianity has to say about sex outside marriage. So...here is our question. If you are a Christian (defined as one who trusts in the power of Jesus to save one from himself) how you are able to enjoy swinging without guilt? And please don't assume we are suffering from some deep seated guilt or emotional complex. We just want to know what others think on this subject.

[VegasLee]

HI there,

Here is a whole site dealing with your question. Done very well. You might want to check it out.

http://www.libchrist.com/

Good luck to you.

[intuition897]

Hi jstlkng!

I am Christian, too. I'm not perfect. Not by a long shot. It's a rare night that I go to bed not ashamed of something I did that day. But our sexual preferences are not on that list. Mr. intuition is not overly religious, but I think he just keeps his business with God between himself and the Big Guy and doesn't talk to anyone about it. However I was raised Anglican and then later Free Methodist. In recent years I've drifted away from 'conventional' Christianity and dislike being pigeon-holed by any one denomination. That's just something people do, and I don't think it's what God intended.

Although I haven't studied it formally and so cannot say for certain whether or not it's true, I feel that the theory that Christianity has been warped, bent, adulterated and bastardized over the years by people with less that pure motives and too much power for their own (and other's) good, is one that seems logical considering the nature of men. It has proved, indeed, to be a remarkable tool by which the masses might be controlled...with the right puppeteer pulling the strings. That is not to say that devotees are entirely misguided, but I think that there are many traditions that could stand to be re-examined if not done away with altogether. In a perfect world, we should do away with the idea that sex is something to be worshipped. I'm sure God only intended it to be used with respect and moderation, not the fear, contempt, and awe with which it is regarded now. It's something to be enjoyed and savoured as part of the rich life that God has created for us. It is something that we do to express ourselves with one another...in many capacities! And the expression of deep love between a husband and wife is only one of the positive ways it might be used. I just think God has bigger things to worry about than Slot A and Tab B.

Just my take on things. Hopefully Spoomonkey will respond to this thread; I would enjoy reading his thoughts on this.

[two4youinswva]

You can find quite a few threads on this and like issues right here .

[Alura]

While I would not presume to call myself a "Christian," Jstlkng, I do have great respect for the man we call Jesus and his teachings. Jesus never said a great deal about sex and never seemed to think of it as a deadly sin.

Saul of Tarsus, (Saint Paul) had a great deal to say. It was he, not Jesus, who introduced the idea that the wrong sex act could send someone to Hell.

Paul was not so much against sex in general. He had a more exact focus. He thought God was very pissed off that mankind had crucified his son and was planning to end the world immediately. Saul was always surprised when he woke up in the morning and the world was still revolving.

Paul felt Christians should spend their time thinking about Christ and Heaven. Anything else was not preparing them for the afterlife.

When the Roman Emperor Constantine the First declared Christianity the official religion of the Holy Roman Empire and moved the capital from Rome to Constantinople, he ordered a group of scribes to assemble to Bible. Saul of Tarsus' writings were included.

Jstlkng asked:

We just want to know what others think on this subject.

In short, those who think sex is a sin are following the teachings of Saul of Tarsus, not Jesus.

Mr. Alura

[Alura]

Intuition wrote:

Mr. intuition is not overly religious, but I think he just keeps his business with God between himself and the Big Guy and doesn't talk to anyone about it.

Good for Mr. Intuition, Intuition. That's exactly what Jesus taught people to do in the Sermon on the Mount. I think it's somewhere around the sixth chapter of Matthew, but don't remember for sure.

Mr. Alura

[jstlkng]

Originally Posted by intuition897

Hi jstlkng!

In a perfect world, we should do away with the idea that sex is something to be worshipped. I'm sure God only intended it to be used with respect and moderation, not the fear, contempt, and awe with which it is regarded now. It's something to be enjoyed and savoured as part of the rich life that God has created for us. It is something that we do to express ourselves with one another...in many capacities! And the expression of deep love between a husband and wife is only one of the positive ways it might be used. I just think God has bigger things to worry about than Slot A and Tab B.

Just my take on things. Hopefully Spoomonkey will respond to this thread; I would enjoy reading his thoughts on this.

Well intuition you have good insight I believe. Thanks for you input and the input of others who have responded. Its my personal belief that the expression of deep love between a husband and wife transcends sex in that the sex act itself is designed to be self satisfying. So what I say, think and do in all other matters is far more important as a way of saying "I love you" than the act of sex itself. In fact, a simple "I love you" may be more stimulating to my wife than any amount of sexual pleasure I can give her. I know it is for me when she tells me she loves me.

[sammy65Missouri]

Our views are that behaving like a Christian has a lot less to do with interpreting age old texts, fables, stories, and other assembled teachings (the Bible) and has a lot more to do with behaving in a manner in which makes the world a better place to live. We do not believe that sexuality has anything to do with religion or morality. Morality to us is teaching your children to respect their elders, to give back to the community, to have compassion for those less fortunate and respect others' property to name a few. I was raised (he) a Catholic and represented my class for confirmation and was an alter boy blah blah blah but one of the things I relealized early on was that those very people that were the so called church leaders were not the nicest people in the church and terribly cruel to others less fortunate. This, to me, meant that religion had turned into a social club using the premise of religion to justify un-christian behavior. Now that I am older I have chosen to divorce the church's interpretation of what constitutes the correct behavior in life and just run my life in a manner in which I am happy with always looking for ways to be a better person. Like the post above I am sure our creator has a little more to worry about then the smallest aspects of our lives in the bedroom.

[Spoomonkey]

The problem with a lot of advice you will receive is that the definitions will differ widely.

For example, I respect Alura greatly and agree completely that Paul is a pain in the ass. The problem is, one of our BEST arguements for swinging, from a biblical perspective actually comes from Paul in the book of Galatians. Removing Paul actually makes it more difficult to understand swinging as "doable."

For many Christians, adjusting our moral compass is simply not as easy as removing portions of the Bible that we do not like. A more satisfying approach is to wrestle with the entire Bible - and discover the contextual view of sexuality, from Law to Grace. For me, any arguement that simply ignored sections of the Bible were unsatisfying and felt hollow - because while Paul certainly was not Jesus, many Christians accept the entire Bible as being inspired by God and, therefore, view the entire Bible as truth - as annoying and challenging as that can often be.

Coming from this perspective does challenge us to a much higher standard of study and introspection - it isn't easy to reconcile one's traditional beliefs with swinging. It is, no doubt, a departure from everything we have been taught about sex. An exhuastive look at how a Christian, such as myself, who believes the Bible from "Genesis to maps", can come to the conclusion that the Bible does not condemn swinging - and that it is okay - would take up a lot of swingersboard bandwidth. So, I won't go there.

But, I will quote a scripture that sums up why I am comfortable with it and why I can swing without guilt on Saturday night and go to church on Sunday morning:

"Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." Romans 13:10

Spoomonkey

[Alura]

"Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." Romans 13:10

A beautiful sentiment, Spoo. Thanks for posting it.

Paul was an enigmatic character indeed and a man of contradictions.

Chapters eleven through fourteen, however, give better insight into the mindset of Paul, in my opinion.

Thanks for the nice compliment, Spoo, the respect is mutual. But you can also be very, very funny! ...and that's a real plus!

Thanks for all you contribute here.

Mr. Alura

[dayhiker]

Hi,
I've read this thread. As some of you know I'm a Christian. I can't swing as my wife thinks its a sin. After spending the last year studing what the Bible says about sex, I don't see it as a sin. I've told my pastors at church. They werrn't too happy. A lot of people in the Bible were married and had sex with others. Ya, most were men that had several wives.

Anyways, I did a study on what the Bible says about adultry. Its 12 pages long, so no suitable to post here. My pastors have read this study and didn't have anything to say other than they didn't beleive as I do.

Let me know if you'd like to read it and I'd be glad to send it to you.
dayhiker

[Alura]

I erroneously wrote:

Chapters eleven through fourteen, however, give better insight into the mindset of Paul, in my opinion.

Of course, I meant to say "verses." Sorry for the slip of the mind.

Mr. Alura

[TwstOFate]

I, like Mr. Alura, am no christian. In fact I probably fall under the agnostic category. My feelings on the subject lean more toward seeing the stories relayed in the bible as allegorical. Much like Aesop, the stories are designed primarily to reinforce social mores and promote common sense. 4,000 years ago in small isolated villages, where sex was primarily for procreation (See Abraham bedding his wife’s slave to produce an heir) sexual monogamy was a necessity. Even if procreation wasn’t the only motivating factor, without birth control, it was quite often the end result. It was to the benefit of the tribe to know exactly whose offspring belonged to whom. You wouldn’t want have brothers and sisters creating branchless trees so to speak.

Additionally, in that time, marriages were more of a business contract than an enterprise based love, desire and mutual respect. Almost all business partnerships have built in non-compete clauses.

It would appear to me that this commandment, adultery, is designed solely to preserve the family unit and the stability of the community. In my observation of the good people on this board and the few that we’ve met in person is that their extramarital adventures have posed no threat to either their “family unit” or to society as a whole. In fact, with a greater than 50% divorce rate in this country, it would appear that the communication and trust needed to engage in this lifestyle might actually be serving a greater societal good.

[Chicup]

The nice thing about being an atheist is I don't have to worry about Paul

[djjwp]

Well, I for one do not believe that there is anything man and wife can not do as long as they do it together. We have been forgiven and the price paid as far as I’m concerned. I celebrate that every Easter.

I refuse to subscribe to the guilt that organized religion uses to run their business. My relationship is a one on one relationship with God and just as I love my children and forgive them for all they do wrong, I know he does the same for me in all my “weaknesses”. :rollseyes

I could get into my experiences with “good Christian church goers” but that is not what you asked for. I’ll leave it at a quote of Ralph Waldo Emerson’s: What you are speaks so loud; I can not hear what you say.