Anyone ever have trouble with religious beliefs and swinging?

[exploringideas]

I am not particularly having trouble with this, because I am pretty open to trying out and enjoying the lifestyle. However, if there were one thing that would hold me back, my Christian beliefs would be it. I am curious if anyone else ever struggled with thi and if so, were you able to reconcile your beliefs with your desires to try out and or live in the lifestyle. Thanks so much for answers!

[akamgaxoxo]

You know, my hubby and I briefly went over some religious issues when we first entered the lifestyle. We discussed whether this was a breach of our marriage, whether it was adultry and so on and so forth. Well....the way we chose to see it is that, for one both of us consented to this lifestyle, we are not cheating on one another, and I really think it adds quite and interesting element to our relationship. I tend to live my life that I extend love and friendship to all and I surround myself with like minded people. My hope is that God won't be too upset that I have shared the same with another man other than my husband and well I just happen to be having a great sexual time with him as well.
I am sure if you research here and look in archives you will find FAQ's on religion and swinging, and I have seen threads which mention a great website called Libchrist I believe. Nice reading on that site and may help you out.

[TNT]

Here's the link to the Liberated Christians site mentioned above. Hope it helps.

http://www.libchrist.com

[fraja]

Oh yeah, I KNOW!! I was a clergyman's wife from a demonination that is notoriously restrictive and sometimes condemning. I was glad to see this thread because I struggle, too. My hubby left me for someone close in the church...but all that aside, my new lifestyle has presented issues to me that keep me up at night. It's a difficult thing to overcome and I'm having a real time of it (often). I'd love to hear more people's thoughts...

[robnbarb]

First, my dad was a minister while he was alive. that being said, I want to state what I have to say is not ment to be offensive (some have sensitivities to this issue) but rather a statement of my beliefs, I ask no one to take them to heart. If you are very sesitive about religion I think you should not read any farther.



That being said, first I am a rather religious person, HOWEVER, there is alot to christianity that I think people misjudge about it. First off it has to be realized that the text was written 2-5 thousand years ago. there is alot of context that was going on at that time that is left out cause it is assumed the reader understands this already, Without the context a terrible amount of information is misread and misinterperated.

The main thing I like about christianity is the message. The basic message is love (something that I think the modern world has long forgotten about, at least from a religious stand point). People often use scripture and verse for the purpouse of hate, which is just the opposite of the message. Also people get caught up in the messanger and forget the message that was presented.

I could go on all day, but I will address my own beliefs on some specifics, First the book of Thesalonians. People often quote this book in refference to sex outside of marrage cause Paul uses the word "Fornication". What is not mentioned is why he uses the word. This was a letter the Theslonica (sp) which is in greece. At the time the local Whorehouse was, the Temple of Aphrodite, thus christains had to go worship another god in order to get sex. Paul was mad, understandably. Like I said context makes the point.

But also, the Ten commandments. "Thall shalt not commit adultry" is one that is used to demonize those in the lifestyle. What must be understood here is that at the time that was written, women were property (Not that I think that was right, but it is a fact) and the main factor in the term adultery is the marital status of the woman. Basicly it reads "women, don't screw around, guys don't mess with another man's wife" However men could go and have sex with any woman they chose. Again the sexism of religion shines. Point is, this was obviously written by men to be used to subjugate women (As a freind of mine once told me "If you ever wonder why the feminist movement started in the Jewish community, just look at how awful they were treated. They make abusive christians look tame.") and I realize that many feel the Bible was written by God (or through men by God) but that is not the case. This is the writings of people trying to explain that which cannot be explained

Hope that was helpful, and hope I did not offend.

[taomaster]

Or you could explore another belief set that is potentially more compatible with your sense of what's good for you.

Tao Sexual Yoga

"The intense sense of guilt attached to sexual matters in Judeo-Christian tradition is, in Chinese eyes, one of the most unpleasant and incomprehensible aspects of Western culture."

[Newbies46514]

Ronnbarb:

That was beautifully stated, I thought it was wonderful! I am a big Christian, only one of my christian friends knows what my husband and I are about to embark on and only because she and her hubby had a MFM years ago. It was not a good experience for them (though they did it 3 times) and she has been 'warning' me all week that I will feel like trash and this will be terrible and most of all...What will Jesus think of me???

She brought up our wedding vows first:

A man and woman shall leave their families and join together to become one in the eyes of God.

I told her we would still be one in the eyes of God, as we were only taking other sex playmates, not other MATES.

Then it was, 'what about forsaking all others'.

I said we are! We're not replacing each other, we're enhancing our sex life, there's a big difference!

Then she said that it said in the bible that a man was not to 'spill his seed' unless it was for the sole purpose of procreation. Now my husband knows his bible pretty well and he's never heard of that...have you?

The adultry commandment came up too, which I answered with we both have permission from each other to fuck other people, I don't see that as adultry...Now if the Mr. were to find a playmate and not tell me about it or see a playmate on the side and not tell me about it, then yes that would be adultry and I'd kick his ass!

In the end what I told her was that if this was wrong, God would find away to let me know. This life is about the choices we make, we make the right choices and follow God's plan for our lives, we find good circumstances, we make the wrong choices and fall off of our life plan, we get bad circumstances. That's how I look at it. This is not making me ignore my faith or my love for God. Since I don't feel guilty, dirty or bad for having these thoughts and feelings, I'm not worrying about it yet, until God reveals to me what is to be and what isn't to be.

Thanks again for your post...and I too hope that I've not offended or dissillusioned (sp?) anyone out there. Just stating my .02

[robnbarb]

That was beautifully stated, I thought it was wonderful! I am a big Christian, only one of my christian friends knows what my husband and I are about to embark on and only because she and her hubby had a MFM years ago. It was not a good experience for them (though they did it 3 times) and she has been 'warning' me all week that I will feel like trash and this will be terrible and most of all...What will Jesus think of me???

First thanks for the complement. No offence but it sounds like your freind has the issues in this situation. What will Jesus think, I am sorry but that statement is useally used by people to try to guilt you into not doing something they don't want you to do. Sort of the same vien of "What would your Father/Mother say." Again, this is useing religion to back up a personal preference, which is something that bothers me a great deal.

A man and woman shall leave their families and join together to become one in the eyes of God.

I told her we would still be one in the eyes of God, as we were only taking other sex playmates, not other MATES.

Great comeback, but I would feel remiss if I did not point out that this was orignally intended for a primite and agrarian society. By some rationals this is the reason to never call you mother after marrage (ie "Leave you families" )

Then it was, 'what about forsaking all others'.

I said we are! We're not replacing each other, we're enhancing our sex life, there's a big difference!

Yep and again, this statement was originally intended for Women, Men could still screw around. One of these days I have to find the roots of the subjugation of women in this manner, it is really bothersome to me.

Then she said that it said in the bible that a man was not to 'spill his seed' unless it was for the sole purpose of procreation. Now my husband knows his bible pretty well and he's never heard of that...have you?

I know this has been used by Catholics to justify a belief in no birth control and I think has been picked up by prodistants from them as a reasoning for abstinance. However I am unsure if this actually appears in any Prodistant Bible. I am 99.9% sure it does in the catholic (which incudes a few books that Matian Luthur and other leaders of the Prodistant Refermation thought were never part of the orignial text of the Bible).

On a side note: I chuckle a tad when I hear some claim that Catholics are not christians yet adopt cathoic doctorine much more stictly than most Catholics I know. back to topic.

The adultry commandment came up too, which I answered with we both have permission from each other to fuck other people, I don't see that as adultry...Now if the Mr. were to find a playmate and not tell me about it or see a playmate on the side and not tell me about it, then yes that would be adultry and I'd kick his ass!

yes that is similar to my definition as well. Sneaking is the way you know you are sinning. Also you should have added the verse "Ye without sin cast the first stone."

It sounds like your friend has some guilt associated with her religious beliefs and thinks stopping you will absolve her of some of it. That is just a hunch, not to be taken as I know something more than anyone else.

The point is you have hit on the major thing I HATE about Christianity, or should I say, the people who generally practice it. They use out of context verses to justify ANYTHING. Hate this person cause the bible says so, when useually it does not if you study just a tad.

I do not profess to know everything about the bible, its history, or everything in every context it was ment. However, I know with just a little study, you find things that just blow your mind and shatter many delusions we have always had about God and the Texts of the bible.

[BradAndJanet]

Originally Posted by Newbies46514

...
Then she said that it said in the bible that a man was not to 'spill his seed' unless it was for the sole purpose of procreation. Now my husband knows his bible pretty well and he's never heard of that...have you?
...

Most likely she's referring to the story of Onan.

Genesis 38:8-10 (KJV): And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

Many scholars take this to literally mean that a man must always use his 'seed' to procreate, lest God be angry.

However, in Deuteronomy 25:5-6 we read: If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her. And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.

This was a duty that a man had to perform for his brother in that culture.

So, some argue that it wasn't the spilling of the seed, per se, that made God angry, but rather Onan's failure to fulfill his duty to his brother.

As always, the Bible is open for interpretation.

I'm sure Mr. Spoomonkey knows quite a bit more than I do about this. If I've related anything incorrectly, I hope he'll chime in.

-B

[WesternSwing]

Yes and no. No for me since even though raised Orthodox Christian my family was very open with nudity and sexuality. I was never, ever told it was dirty or anything like that. Never was any kind of prejudice impressed upon me.

My wife however was the opposite. She was raised Southern Baptist with a bible thumping mom (if anyone remembers the Saturday Night Live skit with Phil Hartman as Jesus and Sally Field as the über-Christian housewife then you know first hand my mother-in-law during my wife's childhood years ). When we first started dating she was very passionate, but had definite limits I had never encountered in a woman before. She had terrible guilt. She was always told her pussy was dirty. She was always told sex was dirty. I always understood it was only dirty if done right! So although we had a good sex life, it was rather limited in it's activities.

When we met, however, we both had pretty much left our Christian roots behind because of reasons that we won't go into here. But she still retained the guilt beat into her day-after-day growing up.

Then about two years ago she started to really come out of her shell. Trying new things with me. Now porn stars would stop and gaze in awe! Then the next step was swinging, which has helped her come to grips even more with her sexual self and shed more of the guilt. Our relationship the past two years in general, and the past seven months we've been swinging in particular, have been the best of the six years we've known eachother. It's nice to have a partner who is as comfortable with their sexuality as you are with yours.

Mr. WS

[Alura]

Your guilt feelings may be easier to deal with if you consider that the New Testament was complied a couple of hundred years after Jesus' death by orders from Constantine when he declared Christianity the state religion and moved the capital of the Roman Empire to Constantinople (now Istanbul).

The writings of Saul of Tarsus (St. Paul) were included. Also keep in mind that Saul never met Jesus, never heard the sermon on the mount and, in my opinion, never grasped just exactly what Jesus was trying to teach us.

Saul was anti-women and anti-sex. Jesus never was. In fact, many scholars believe he had an ongoing sexual relationship with Mary Magdelene, a former hooker.

Some suggest that Saul's hatred of women stemmed from his extreme ugliness. It is thought that he was a mis-shapen dwarf who suffered from mental illness (probably paranoid schizophrenia) among other things. His unattractiveness to women, and ultimate rejection by them probably accounts for his attitude toward sex.

Does it make more sense to live your life by Jesus' caring love or Saul's fire and brimstone? Each must decide for himself.

Here is a link to a list of similar threads on this board:

http://www.swingersboard.com/forums/...searchid=77356

Mr. Alura

I was heavily disciplined as a child. I mean, "heavily disciplined" by both parents. I was actually disciplined to the point where I wasn't even allowed to date until I proved myself successful to my parents around 17. I had somewhat religious parents, but I am a very successful person with an open marriage now. That was years ago, but I didn't actually get a girlfriend until I got married. My wife also has a boyfriend. Her boyfriend is somewhat fearful of what I think about her relationship with him and so is she. I talk to my girlfriend all the time, and our marriage is strong. I frequently walk in on them having sex, and he always jumps a little bit out of fear, but I just tell them to go ahead and have fun. I go back to my office sometimes and think about what has lead to this success in life and success in marriage. This came from my development as a child that has lead to this. It has been an amazing marriage so far. I was taught to be accountable for my life at all times, so I don't use condoms with my girlfriend or my wfe and neighter does my wife with her boyfriend. See, an open marriage is just that. Freedom to love yor spouse and enjoy others.