Can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted with Swinging again?

[incommunicado]

About four years ago, due to some scary problems with money and career (O.K., my failed career), my wife started having affairs. In a nutshell, there were probably at 3 men she had sex with on at least a few occasions. She also exchanged a lot of racy to raunchy e-mails with men we both knew, and sent nude pictures of herself to at least one that I discovered. (Anyone who wants to read all about it can run a search on my user name as the threads are still there.)

In a nutshell, we were in a very bad situation at home, I handled it badly by becoming depressed, angry and withdrawn, she handled it MUCH worse (in my opinion) by becoming angry and then acting out sexually. Flash forward 4 years, we have worked to rebuild our relationship and, two years ago, we decided to have a baby and now have a beautiful, 16 month old boy.

Which leads me to the question in the title. Can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted with Swinging again? Can we go to on-premise clubs and play in front of others for the thrill (neither of us has ever just been with strangers)? Can we have the occasional play time with friends from the lifestyle, while we are away on vacation?

Does this risk opening up that "air of permissiveness" I spoke of earlier? Or can it simply be "in the rules" that this is just for us, that there is no "license to thrill"?

I'll take my answers off the air.

[havefuninsun]

In my opinion and experiences, the ONLY thing cheating and swinging have in common is the fact that you or your spouse is having sex with someone other than their own spouse (or significant other).

MOST people do not cheat just for sex. There are other reasons why people find comfort in other people other than their spouse. Sex is usually just one of the expressions that come from that. If you're HAPPY at home, then you talk about troubles and you lean on each other, and you do not seek the solace of someone else.

SWINGING is a couple activity which demands couples to be very close ... how else can you trust your spouse to have sex with someone else? If I were not 100% confident in my relationship with Mr. Fun, and if I had ANY feeling he would not be faithful to me (and by faithful I mean lying and playing without my knowledge, which is lying too), there is no way I could do this. BECAUSE of our relationship we can do what we do.

Think about it. WHY on earth would I cheat? I have a wonderful man who is happy with my interest in variety, and has no problem with my experimenting in that way. Hell -- he'd even FIND me someone he thought I'd like. If Mr. Fun "cheated" on me, I'd be the most shocked individual ever. If you can't trust your swing partner, who can you trust?

I do think couples can recover from bad parts in their relationships. But I think it takes a lot of healing and time. Only you can answer that. Establish your own rules, keep the lines of communication open, and you both can have a lot of fun and keep growing closer every day.

Good luck! I hope what I said makes sense.

[lovinher]

I agree with havefuninsun. I'll also add that the fact that you asked the question says you are not 100% comfortable with the idea-YET!. Take it slow in baby steps until you are 100% comfortable with it. It may take some time or it may never happen, but IMO you should wait until you find the answer yourself. Nobody here can do that for you.

Hope it all goes well and good for you both for working it out.

[incommunicado]

Originally Posted by lovinher

I agree with havefuninsun. I'll also add that the fact that you asked the question says you are not 100% comfortable with the idea-YET!. Take it slow in baby steps until you are 100% comfortable with it. It may take some time or it may never happen, but IMO you should wait until you find the answer yourself. Nobody here can do that for you.

Hope it all goes well and good for you both for working it out.

Honestly, I'm a lot closer to comfortable with the concept then you would think. The problem isn't the act. It's a question of acceptable risk. When we were having problems, her behavior seemed to be all about the need for outside stimulus and pushing boundaries. It made me suspect there might be a sexual addiction, even if she would never admit it. Maybe there was, maybe there wasn't, but I chose to treat it as such and not take risks. Our life since then has been rather stayed, and she has been, as far as I know, faithful for the past 4 years.

I would love to swing again. I enjoyed the permissiveness, I enjoyed the taboo and excitement of being with other people. I enjoyed watching her with another man probably most of all. I certainly would get off on having a bunch of people having sex around us at a club. And, I would love both from the standpoint of showing my trust and for my own excitement, to share her with a male friend while on vacation. But, I need to know that I'm not awakening the dragon.

By the way, she doesn't even know I am considering this. Maybe the club, but certainly not doing something with our friend while on vacation.

[chp_thrill]

Until your situation changes, I would say to not only stay away from swinging, but keep it out of the "pillow talk" as well. Too much to risk, too many red flags, and too little time past since the cheating. Forget clubs, get the relationship fixed, not just working.
If she cheats again, I'd have to say get a divorce. Good luck finding an understanding marriage counselor. You two have serious trust issues that may be resolved with time and effort.

[BorisNatasha]

I think you are very strong for even considering it. The only relationship I ever had where I found out the other was cheating was ended by me as a result. I just don't think I could ever give trust again in that situation, swinging or no swinging.

This is not a knock on you at all, I truly think that it is commendable you were able to save the relationship and are even considering this. Good luck to you both.

[fun4Ds]

well maby im not the best advisor on this but we have been married a long while, im shure that iv let it be known that i personally dont do well with things that change. but that is where Mrs.fun has been the good thing in my life that has taught me that things in life do in fact ... change.
im not gonna give the ol, set someone free, if they come back they are yours, if they dont they never were. even though that is true in some respects. but the truth is your talking about .. "trust here". trust is something that at times between couples, is questioned, sometimes tested, and yes.. sometimes abused and lost.

with us TRUST IS EARNED and RESPECTED.

with what you say about the past im gonna have to ask? is total forgiveness accepted to begin with. no blame from either side. if so, and we have seen it possible and sometimes not. then trust is built.. one step at a time and respected again.

you can never change the past, but you can always work on the future. people who learn from mistakes usally dont repeat them, or nothing was learned.

my answer to your question " can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted? "..yes, but the trust is built, earned, given and respected by each.

a wise person can change, a fool never does.

[rotten&spoiled]

Hello,
I am the women half of my marriage. Before we got married, before we even thought of being swingers I had a couple flings. My hubby was not very commited to me then and so at times I felt alone. The point is now about three years later we are working on the trust issues and are playing with the idea of becoming swingers. This was my idea. He is a little un sure whether he can handle me being with another guy, but it may come later.
Just give it time and don't do anything you are not fully ready to. You must communicate with her and let her know that secret relations are not ok, and if she goes against that then things are probably not going to go well for the two of you.
Good Luck

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by incommunicado

Honestly, I'm a lot closer to comfortable with the concept then you would think. The problem isn't the act. It's a question of acceptable risk. When we were having problems, her behavior seemed to be all about the need for outside stimulus and pushing boundaries. It made me suspect there might be a sexual addiction, even if she would never admit it. Maybe there was, maybe there wasn't, but I chose to treat it as such and not take risks. Our life since then has been rather stayed, and she has been, as far as I know, faithful for the past 4 years.

I would love to swing again. I enjoyed the permissiveness, I enjoyed the taboo and excitement of being with other people. I enjoyed watching her with another man probably most of all. I certainly would get off on having a bunch of people having sex around us at a club. And, I would love both from the standpoint of showing my trust and for my own excitement, to share her with a male friend while on vacation. But, I need to know that I'm not awakening the dragon.

By the way, she doesn't even know I am considering this. Maybe the club, but certainly not doing something with our friend while on vacation.

So, let me see if I get this right. The fact about her cheating on you four years ago have few to do with her having sex with others, and more with the motivations leading her to cheat on you, and the deceiving attitude of doing it behind your back, right?

Besides, in the original post you start by justifying her acts, by pointing out it was a result of your career "failure". It seems to me that you "bought this argument", probabily because this gave you the oportunity to rebuild your relationship. However, it also seems to me she still owe you an appology, to aknowledge her share of responsibility for what happened.

I mean, a man's career failure doesn't entitle a wife to "pay back", "punish him" or "leverage things" by means of cheating. For this to happen she should have a lot of expectations put on her husband, even unrealistic expectations (even if feeded by you from beforehand). The problem here would be, if she didn't acknowledge her share or responsibility here, what would prevent her from doing the same should you were unable to meet some further expetaction? How she'd be able to engage in an activity like swinging, requiring both parties to share the responsibilities for whatever outcome this could produce?

So, even if the sexual part thrills you, even if you miss what swinging gave to you, you come here asking for a reasurance on your relationship strenght that only you and your wife can provide. The sole fact of asking this question here should be a red flag for you.

It seems to me you're (still?) honoring your nickname Spanish meaning: "incomunicated"... you both need to communicate to understand where you're standing right now, and where the risks would be should you ever swing.

[ViSexual]

It sounds like you're both people who enjoy stretching the sexual boundaries.

And, it sounded to me like she was 'screwing around' without you for simply that purpose.

If you both agree that you love each other. You've had a baby together and have no intentions of splitting. And that whatever adventures you have together or apart that it's not being unfaithful to your relationship. Then, there can't be any cheating, can there?

[Additude]

I don't think thats a fair question, for you or your wife. There is not a "Black & White" answer to the question you asked.

I think the question should be "Can you trust your wife with swinging again after she cheated on you"...

Only you know that answer and your not here asking because you do trust her. Your asking because you don't trust her, right now anyways.

I'd suggest you talk to her and tell her where you are at and see if you can come to some impass over it with some basic swinging rules at first until you feel comfortable with her swinging and then you can progress into swinging deeper over time.

Maybe she needs to channel her sexuality more independantly or whatever, you need to find this out and see where she stands with it, swinging and you.

Good Luck!

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by incommunicado

In a nutshell, we were in a very bad situation at home, I handled it badly by becoming depressed, angry and withdrawn, she handled it MUCH worse (in my opinion) by becoming angry and then acting out sexually. Flash forward 4 years, we have worked to rebuild our relationship and, two years ago, we decided to have a baby and now have a beautiful, 16 month old boy.

Ok, I don't agree with her acting out in a sexual manner. However, if you basically withdraw from the relationship as described, then you are no longer there for her....then she probably went seeking the things she needed elsewhere (and that goes both ways, I'm not saying what she did was right, but men go looking for sex and companionship outside the relationship for the same reasons women do).

It's been said before and I'll go ahead and say it again. Adding children or swinging to a relationship that is already on unsteady footing does not normally bode well. One of your previous posts, you made the comment that at that time you had been together for 13 years and thank goodness that there were no children involved?!? Moot point now that there is, but waiting 15 years to start a family?

Then you were already swinging and she STILL felt the need to cheat and go behind your back with other partners? One of our friends did this....they were playing together and he still felt the need to be sneaky....and they are no longer swinging.

Yes, you've taken 4 years to rebuild the relationship. Congratulations on that...however, with increased sexual freedom like before, she either may still feel the need to keep pushing the boundaries and even if she's not, you may wonder if she is based on past experiences. Not saying that people can't change, but they sure can stay on some good behavior kick as long as it is benefitting them.

If you still want to proceed, I would do so with lots of caution...maybe just soft swap or put on a little exhibishinistic display at the club with each other or something that does not involve actually having sex with other people if you are just looking to add a bit of spice to things.

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.

Maria

[incommunicado]

Hi,

Incommunicado here!

Thanks to all of you for your input. I think I made a mistake by giving a little bit of background, because the question would have stood on its own. Instead, it has snowballed into a question not just of whether or not we should swing, but the soundness of our relationship, the wisdom of our having had children, whether we should have stayed together. While some of you have been very kind, and others have been a bit more conservative, others, have been rather strident, casting some strong judgment on my wife for her behavior or mine, all with very little information, unless you went back and read EVERY post from years ago, VERY carefully, VERY slowly and in detail, so as to cover every last piece, from start to resolution.

Let me be clear. We had 10 years marriage prior to our troubles. Loyal, faithful, supportive, loving marriage. We supported each other through crummy bosses, underpayment, unemployment, deaths of family and friends and more. We hit what seemed to be serious, unfixable career and money problems that would have cost us EVERYTHING WE HAD (we would have been homeless and penniless) if it had lasted only a month longer than it did. We both handled it badly and she handled it more self destructively than I did (as if withdrawing and wallowing in depression isn't self destructive). Discovering what she had done tore me apart and I nearly left. And, maybe I should have by some of your standards. But, 10 years of marriage is a long time. We were a family and family isn't something that comes with children, it's something you become when you take your vows. That's a lot to walk away from because of one downward spiral, no matter how painful. So we decided to work it out.

I'm sorry guys, but those of you who have been married for a decade or more without a known stumble or confidence shaker are the few and the proud. Those of us that make it to 15 years with only 1 bad year in the relationship are the warriors. And the majority are on 2nd and 3rd marriages.

My grandparents were married for 70 years. I promise you that, along the way, someone screwed up royally, some how, some way, and possibly more than once, and they both decided that the the journey was more important than a few bumps along the way.

Some of your harsher answers and more precipitous judgments have inspired a second question: How many of you have walked away from 10 years or more of marriage that was mostly very good, because you discovered your spouse had strayed? I understand your faith being shaken to the core, but how did you know you made the right decision being that unforgiving? Looking back, are you sure you made the right decision? How can you know for sure?

[incommunicado]

Originally Posted by chp_thrill

Until your situation changes, I would say to not only stay away from swinging, but keep it out of the "pillow talk" as well. Too much to risk, too many red flags, and too little time past since the cheating. Forget clubs, get the relationship fixed, not just working.
If she cheats again, I'd have to say get a divorce. Good luck finding an understanding marriage counselor. You two have serious trust issues that may be resolved with time and effort.

I feel compelled to speak to a few of these answers directly.

Our relationship is fixed. We went to counseling, together and individually. We identified the problems (plural) before we ever got there.

The question isn't of trust. It's of simple cause and effect. If I was an alcoholic, I would know not to take a drink. A shell shocked veteran, I'd know to stay out of war movies. Having swung, in close proximity to the time of her cheating, I related the two. She says they had nothing to do with each other. We stopped swinging anyway, and without protest. Now, YEARS later I am asking the question, "can this be safe, or does it risk re-creating a problem." This is not something I expect to spring on her. We would talk about it before it ever happened and I would expect her, for the sake of our marriage and our son, to be honest about her limitations if she felt she had them.

[incommunicado]

So, let me see if I get this right. The fact about her cheating on you four years ago have few to do with her having sex with others, and more with the motivations leading her to cheat on you, and the deceiving attitude of doing it behind your back, right?

--CORRECT!

Besides, in the original post you start by justifying her acts, by pointing out it was a result of your career "failure". It seems to me that you "bought this argument", probabily because this gave you the oportunity to rebuild your relationship. However, it also seems to me she still owe you an appology, to aknowledge her share of responsibility for what happened.

--NOT JUSTIFYING, EXPLAINING. THE ARGUMENT WAS BROUGHT BEFORE I EVER CONSIDERED TRYING TO REBUILD THE RELATIONSHIP. THE APPOLOGY AND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF HER RESPONSIBILITY WERE MADE BEFORE WE EVER MOVED FORWARD.

I mean, a man's career failure doesn't entitle a wife to "pay back", "punish him" or "leverage things" by means of cheating. For this to happen she should have a lot of expectations put on her husband, even unrealistic expectations (even if feeded by you from beforehand). The problem here would be, if she didn't acknowledge her share or responsibility here, what would prevent her from doing the same should you were unable to meet some further expetaction? How she'd be able to engage in an activity like swinging, requiring both parties to share the responsibilities for whatever outcome this could produce?

-YOU ARE TOTALLY CORRECT. THE FACT IS, THINGS SUCKED, WE HAD NO SOLUTION, WE WERE BOTH SCARED. I TURNED INSIDE AND SHE TURNED TO OTHERS. THERE IS NO ACCEPTIBLE EXCUSE AND SHE KNOWS IT. WE BOTH KNOW WE CAN'T HANDLE THINGS THE WAY WE DID.

So, even if the sexual part thrills you, even if you miss what swinging gave to you, you come here asking for a reasurance on your relationship strenght that only you and your wife can provide. The sole fact of asking this question here should be a red flag for you.

-NOT LOOKING FOR REASURANCE OF MY RELATIONSHIP STRENGTH. STRICTLY CAUSE AND EFFECT. SWINGING, I AM ALMOST CERTAIN, MADE IT EASIER FOR HER TO CHEAT. PHRASES LIKE "WE ONLY PLAY TOGETHER" ARE A LOT MORE PERMISSIVE THAN "SORRY, I'M MARRIED."

It seems to me you're (still?) honoring your nickname Spanish meaning: "incomunicated"... you both need to communicate to understand where you're standing right now, and where the risks would be should you ever swing.

ACTUALLY, INCOMMUNICADO COMES FROM A VERY OLD JOKE "WHERE'S SO-AND-SO?" "HE'S INCOMMUNICADO." MEANING, HE'S NOWHERE. IT WAS CHOSEN AS A REPRESENTATION OF MY ANONYMITY TO THE GROUP.