Can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted with Swinging again?

[incommunicado]

Ok, I don't agree with her acting out in a sexual manner. However, if you basically withdraw from the relationship as described, then you are no longer there for her....then she probably went seeking the things she needed elsewhere (and that goes both ways, I'm not saying what she did was right, but men go looking for sex and companionship outside the relationship for the same reasons women do).

--I WOULD AGREE

It's been said before and I'll go ahead and say it again. Adding children or swinging to a relationship that is already on unsteady footing does not normally bode well. One of your previous posts, you made the comment that at that time you had been together for 13 years and thank goodness that there were no children involved?!? Moot point now that there is, but waiting 15 years to start a family?

--OUR PROBLEMS TOOK PLACE DURING OUR 11th YEAR. WE SPENT THE SUBSEQUENT TIME SORTING THROUGH OUR PROBLEMS, WHICH IN PART FOR ME WAS THE DEPTH AND BREADTH OF THE BETRAYAL. AND, YES, AT THAT POINT, I WAS GLAD WE HADN'T HAD CHILDREN.

CHILDREN, I WILL ADD, WERE SOMETHING WE WANTED TO CONSIDER AFTER WE SPENT A LONG TIME AS JUST A COUPLE, AFTER CAREERS WERE LAUNCHED AND SCHOOL WAS FINISHED (HERS) AND WE HAD ACHIEVED OUR OWN GOALS. MANY OF OUR FRIENDS HAD KIDS RIGHT AFTER MARRIAGE, IN THEIR EARLY TO MID 20'S AND THE TOTALLY SUBJUGATED THEIR LIVES TO THEIR KIDS. WE WANTED TO HAVE KIDS BECAUSE WE WERE READY, HAD DONE WHAT WE WANTED AND COULD WELCOME THEM INTO OUR LIVES. NOT BECAUSE THE CLOCK WAS TICKING. WE DECIDED WE'D RATHER LOOK BACK ON A LIFE OF CHILDLESS DEVOTION TO OUR OWN HAPPINESS THEN REGRET HAVING BEEN HELD BACK.

WE HAD 10 GOOD YEARS, 1 PARTIALLY VERY BAD YEAR AND OVER TWO GOOD YEARS AFTER THAT. MAKING A DECISION AT YEAR 13 TO HAVE KIDS WAS MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME AFTER THE TROUBLES. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT, AT SOME POINT YOU ARE EITHER GOING TO MOVE FORWARD OR NOT. FORGIVING IS NEEDED, FORGETTING NOT AN OPTION. BUT, JUST GETTING ON WITH OUR LIVES AND GETTING OUT FROM UNDER THE SHADOW. HER SCHOOL WAS LONG DONE, MY CAREER FINALLY LAUNCHED, MONEY WAS GOOD, WE WERE GOOD AND WE WERE READY FOR CHILDREN.

Then you were already swinging and she STILL felt the need to cheat and go behind your back with other partners? One of our friends did this....they were playing together and he still felt the need to be sneaky....and they are no longer swinging.

--THAT'S ABOUT THE SIZE OF IT. WAIT, WAS YOUR FRIEND AT THE END OF NEARLY A YEAR OF TERRIFYING FINANCIAL INSTABILITY WITH ONLY A MONTH BEFORE HE AND HIS WIFE LOST EVERYTHING AND WERE PENNILESS AND HOMELESS? IF SO, THEN YES, OUR STORY IS THE SAME. EITHER WAY, IT'S NO EXCUSE, BUT IT'S A REASON FOR TEMPORARY INSANITY. AND WE DON'T SWING ANYMORE EITHER.

Yes, you've taken 4 years to rebuild the relationship. Congratulations on that...however, with increased sexual freedom like before, she either may still feel the need to keep pushing the boundaries and even if she's not, you may wonder if she is based on past experiences. Not saying that people can't change, but they sure can stay on some good behavior kick as long as it is benefitting them.

--THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT. DO I TRUST THAT IT WAS COMPLETELY SITUATIONAL, OR DO I ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION THAT SWINGING GAVE HER A SENSE OF FREEDOM THAT IS BEST NOT FELT. AND, YOU ARE RIGHT. PEOPLE CAN STAY ON GOOD BEHAVIOR AS LONG AS IT BENEFITS THEM. I GUESS PART OF TRUST IS TRUSTING THAT SHE DIDN'T PLEAD FOR OUR RELATIONSHIP AND THEN SPENT THE LAST 4 YEARS BEING GOOD OUT OF OPPORTUNISM.

If you still want to proceed, I would do so with lots of caution...maybe just soft swap or put on a little exhibishinistic display at the club with each other or something that does not involve actually having sex with other people if you are just looking to add a bit of spice to things.

--WE HAVE NO NEED TO ACTUALLY SWAP. JUST A LITTLE SPICE WOULD BE NICE.

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.

--THANKS!

Maria [/quote]

[incommunicado]

I don't think thats a fair question, for you or your wife. There is not a "Black & White" answer to the question you asked.

--I DISAGREE, I THINK THERE IS. OR, AT LEAST A CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE OF RISK.

I think the question should be "Can you trust your wife with swinging again after she cheated on you"...

--THIS IS A MUCH BETTER QUESTION, I AGREE!

Only you know that answer and your not here asking because you do trust her. Your asking because you don't trust her, right now anyways.

--I'M NOT ASKING BECAUSE I DON'T TRUST HER. I'M ASKING BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN KNOWING YOUR LIMITATIONS. THE MOST TRUSTWORTHY PERSON IN THE WORLD WILL UTTERLY FAIL IF THERE LIMITATIONS ARE TESTED TO A CERTAIN DEGREE. AS A FRIEND ONCE SAID TO ME, "DON'T THROW THE STEAK ON THE FLOOR AND EXPECT THE DOG NOT TO EAT IT."

I'd suggest you talk to her and tell her where you are at and see if you can come to some impass over it with some basic swinging rules at first until you feel comfortable with her swinging and then you can progress into swinging deeper over time.

Maybe she needs to channel her sexuality more independantly or whatever, you need to find this out and see where she stands with it, swinging and you.

WE TALKED ABOUT WHETHER THERE WAS A NEED FOR "INDEPENDENT STUDY" WAAAAAAYYY BACK WHEN I WAS FIRST DETERMINING WHETHER I COULD OR WANTED TO STAY. SHE FLAT OUT REFUSED AN OPEN RELATIONSHIP WHEN IT WAS LAID BEFORE HER, NO STRINGS ATTACHED NO TEST, JUST "DO YOU WANT THIS?".

Good Luck![/quote]

THANKS!

[incommunicado]

Thanks to all for indulging my individual comments.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by incommunicado

... But, 10 years of marriage is a long time. We were a family and family isn't something that comes with children, it's something you become when you take your vows. That's a lot to walk away from because of one downward spiral, no matter how painful. So we decided to work it out.

I'm sorry guys, but those of you who have been married for a decade or more without a known stumble or confidence shaker are the few and the proud. Those of us that make it to 15 years with only 1 bad year in the relationship are the warriors. And the majority are on 2nd and 3rd marriages.

Well, it was said "It is easy to have many women. What's very difficult is to have just one!"

I understand what you mean and where you come from. Yet, I believe people turned judgamental after your own choices for wording your question.

I didn't take the time to look back to read all your history from other posts, and I know I wouldn't do it anyway, as I am sure many others didn't as well. However, I don't believe it is my responsibility to "fix" the way your post "mislead" me, and the fact is, in order to answer THIS post, I believe it's more important to stick to your own current words, that to attempt to fill some voids looking for the puzzle's missing pieces in oldest posts.

And this isn't the prejudice's appology, and I don't endorse many of the comments other members posted. When we face a post from one spouse talking about the other, we don't have the chance to get to know the other spouse, but the way the poster portrayed him or her. Thus, even when the poster means to talk about the spouse, the poster is talking about him or herself. So, I hardly could judge your wife from your words, the only I can do is judge your words. Not even you, just your words.

I don't believe it is casual to choose one way or another to say something (morever if written words, since you have the time to think and express yourself at your own pace, and to re-read and correct what you write), nor it is casual to choose what to say and what to mute. These choices tells a lot about you, about the problem, and about where you're standing to face it, and even sometimes these choices tells you more than the explicit words.

Of course, I can missunderstand the whole thing, however every one of us answer back from our own (miss)understanding, hoping our (miss)understandings to be able to help you reach some insight, even if it makes sense only for you.

The question is... from what you said, and the way you said it, there isn't anything able to lead us to missunderstand the situation? Re-read your post, please, because I believe you expressed pretty well the bottom of your question, wheter you like it or not.

Originally Posted by incommunicado

ACTUALLY, INCOMMUNICADO COMES FROM A VERY OLD JOKE "WHERE'S SO-AND-SO?" "HE'S INCOMMUNICADO." MEANING, HE'S NOWHERE. IT WAS CHOSEN AS A REPRESENTATION OF MY ANONYMITY TO THE GROUP.

I don't know the joke, it called my attention your choice (again) for a nickname, and the way I (miss)understood it since Spanish is my born language. However, I believe I understand where the joke relies: "incomunicado" (just one "m" in spanish) is the legal term for someone jailed and isolated, monetarily deprived from the right to speak with others. In many Latinamerican countiries, during military governments and/or with para-legal systems, this also could mean to be "missing" (nowhere). This makes your choice even more intriguing by now.

Anyway, all of this is to point out that I am being lead more by the CHOICES you make, that I may know from your posts, than by the way you portrayed your situation and the choices you claim to make for the portray sake. And I am inviting you to look at them.

[incommunicado]

Oh dear. Is there no one out there who isn't looking to read far more into this than they are supposed to? Even my choice of screen name is called into question as having some deep rooted meaning.

I have re-read my posts, past and present, on the subject. Addressing the present only, I think they were VERY clear, in all their detail. There is nothing to be misread and no way to be mislead. They all say, basically, "Had problems. Problems long gone. Return to swinging? Yes? No?" Why don't all of you get that?

Some of you have said, "Yes, this can be done." Some have said, "no, there's a risk it could trigger something in her". These are helpful and what I was looking for (never wanted anyone to tell me exactly what I wanted to hear). But, far too many of you have tried to use a small overview of background info, to tell me we still have problems, even though I have been clear that our troubles are over, but I just want to be cautious.

Let's get back to the screen name. I've had it since way before we hit our rough patch. It was from a joke in a BUGS BUNNY cartoon! It doesn't say ANYTHING about me. No secrets. No deep rooted this or that. No Spanish, no Latin. No "Isolated" or "Alone". It represents privacy and my feeling that this is a private activity. Nothing more.

It's funny, and more than a little scary. When I had real problems and I turned to the group for support, I gave tons of information and got mostly supportive responses (work it out, get therapy, love can prevail, you can work past this). When I finally had the big picture, and told the group we were working it out, I was met with 90+% "YAYYYY! Happy Ending!". Even Julie followed up with me a few times privately to see how I was doing. But, this time, I give some basic background and ask if we can return to swinging after healing from a bad patch in your relationship, and it's like the 10% or less of the negative people from before, make up 90% of my replies. All giving their dime-store analysis based on very little information that should be taken at face value ("had problems, problems done. Swing again? yes? no?") and reading WAAAYYY to much into it. Come on, the SCREEN NAME?

Now, since I obviously don't own this thread anymore, and I have gotten very little helpful response actually addressing my question. I will now leave the thread to the group. If my calculations are correct, the next postings will be peppered with out of context quotes from my postings, in an attempt to prove me wrong, on whatever level the writers choose to fixate.

Feel free to talk amongst yourselves.

Originally Posted by sereneiders

Well, it was said "It is easy to have many women. What's very difficult is to have just one!"

I understand what you mean and where you come from. Yet, I believe people turned judgamental after your own choices for wording your question.

I didn't take the time to look back to read all your history from other posts, and I know I wouldn't do it anyway, as I am sure many others didn't as well. However, I don't believe it is my responsibility to "fix" the way your post "mislead" me, and the fact is, in order to answer THIS post, I believe it's more important to stick to your own current words, that to attempt to fill some voids looking for the puzzle's missing pieces in oldest posts.

And this isn't the prejudice's appology, and I don't endorse many of the comments other members posted. When we face a post from one spouse talking about the other, we don't have the chance to get to know the other spouse, but the way the poster portrayed him or her. Thus, even when the poster means to talk about the spouse, the poster is talking about him or herself. So, I hardly could judge your wife from your words, the only I can do is judge your words. Not even you, just your words.

I don't believe it is casual to choose one way or another to say something (morever if written words, since you have the time to think and express yourself at your own pace, and to re-read and correct what you write), nor it is casual to choose what to say and what to mute. These choices tells a lot about you, about the problem, and about where you're standing to face it, and even sometimes these choices tells you more than the explicit words.

Of course, I can missunderstand the whole thing, however every one of us answer back from our own (miss)understanding, hoping our (miss)understandings to be able to help you reach some insight, even if it makes sense only for you.

The question is... from what you said, and the way you said it, there isn't anything able to lead us to missunderstand the situation? Re-read your post, please, because I believe you expressed pretty well the bottom of your question, whether you like it or not.



I don't know the joke, it called my attention your choice (again) for a nickname, and the way I (miss)understood it since Spanish is my born language. However, I believe I understand where the joke relies: "incomunicado" (just one "m" in spanish) is the legal term for someone jailed and isolated, monetarily deprived from the right to speak with others. In many Latinamerican countiries, during military governments and/or with para-legal systems, this also could mean to be "missing" (nowhere). This makes your choice even more intriguing by now.

Anyway, all of this is to point out that I am being lead more by the CHOICES you make, that I may know from your posts, than by the way you portrayed your situation and the choices you claim to make for the portray sake. And I am inviting you to look at them.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by incommunicado

Can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted with Swinging again?

Hi incommunicado, if you're still here.

I don't think it's possible to give an across-the-board answer to this question. There are so many variables. It depends entirely on whether or not the past was fully resolved and changes made. I mean real changes, to the degree that if times were to get hard again and "life happens", the formerly cheating spouse could be trusted to stand by you, be mature and supportive, and not run off seeking self-gratification when hard times come. People generally react to situations based on deep-down personality characteristics and core values. Those things are mighty hard to change.

Personally, I doubt that I would be able to fully and completely trust this person after that degree of cheating had occurred, and in those circumstances. If trust was to be rebuilt, I would have to witness proven, consistent demonstrations of changes and over a significant period of time. That is, if I was even able to stay with a person who had betrayed my trust in this manner. "Actions speak louder than words" - cheating (and the associated sneaking around, covering up, lying) are actions that really scream out loudly. I can only give you an answer from my personal perspective - and we are all different. I think you'll have to find the answer for yourself.

Turning the question back in a personal way, ask yourself this:
Do you believe that you can trust your spouse with swinging? Has your spouse proven her love, loyalty and devotion to you? Do her actions now foster a closeness that surpasses what you had before? Can you say that she is your best friend?

These things would matter most to me. Best wishes to you.

[lovinher]

Turning the question back in a personal way, ask yourself this:
Do you believe that you can trust your spouse with swinging? Has your spouse proven her love, loyalty and devotion to you? Do her actions now foster a closeness that surpasses what you had before? Can you say that she is your best friend?

These things would matter most to me. Best wishes to you

Unless you can answer yes to every one of these questions, I'd hold off period. I'm sorry dude, but the title of your thread says you can't right now.
Take (some) of the advice given and don't be one of those that get's pissed off when they are told things they don't want to hear.

[lovinher]

If my calculations are correct, the next postings will be peppered with out of context quotes from my postings, in an attempt to prove me wrong, on whatever level the writers choose to fixate.

I can't help myself......if we are attempting to "prove you wrong", you obviuosly feel you are right. So what was the point in posting?

BTW...I do like the screen name. Fits right in here.

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by incommunicado

--THAT'S ABOUT THE SIZE OF IT. WAIT, WAS YOUR FRIEND AT THE END OF NEARLY A YEAR OF TERRIFYING FINANCIAL INSTABILITY WITH ONLY A MONTH BEFORE HE AND HIS WIFE LOST EVERYTHING AND WERE PENNILESS AND HOMELESS? IF SO, THEN YES, OUR STORY IS THE SAME. EITHER WAY, IT'S NO EXCUSE, BUT IT'S A REASON FOR TEMPORARY INSANITY. AND WE DON'T SWING ANYMORE EITHER.

--THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT. DO I TRUST THAT IT WAS COMPLETELY SITUATIONAL, OR DO I ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION THAT SWINGING GAVE HER A SENSE OF FREEDOM THAT IS BEST NOT FELT. AND, YOU ARE RIGHT. PEOPLE CAN STAY ON GOOD BEHAVIOR AS LONG AS IT BENEFITS THEM. I GUESS PART OF TRUST IS TRUSTING THAT SHE DIDN'T PLEAD FOR OUR RELATIONSHIP AND THEN SPENT THE LAST 4 YEARS BEING GOOD OUT OF OPPORTUNISM.

--WE HAVE NO NEED TO ACTUALLY SWAP. JUST A LITTLE SPICE WOULD BE NICE.

As far as my friend is concerned, yes the financial situation was nearly the same. They were getting ready to be kicked out of their home, he was having trouble finding/keeping a job, she wasn't working at the time to stay home with their children, ect.

For the 'good behavior' of the last few years, only she (and you) have your reasons for staying or not wanting to end things. You know, as do I, it's alot easier to be with someone when things are going well. I was not questioning if you considered yourself a family without children, but there are people out there that are married for 20 or 30 years and would still part ways after learning of multiple infidelities. Some stick around because of financial reasons, they do the math and realize that they can not support themselves in a particular lifestyle and it's easier to do some things with 2 incomes. Well all have our reasons for doing the things that we do, there is no one size fits all.

If all you are looking for is spice, then maybe a sexually charged atmosphere (a swing club) and the exihibishion-istic (not even sure if that's a word.. ) side of having other people watch you have sex/play might be the ticket? You get a little spice added b/c of the atmosphere and the openess, but you aren't quite jumping into the trickier waters of partner swap. Not sure if the vacationing idea with the single male would be a good idea, she might think it's ok to be more 'liberal' with him at other times as well.

I would definitely broach the topic with her and see what her thoughts are. Maybe she's scared to get back into any lifestyle activites because of what happened before? See if she just liked the atmosphere, and where she stands in general?

You seem to have put yourself on the defensive....however I DID go back and read your posts and replies on the previous thread (before I posted my previous reply) where your wife was chatting, sending pics and emails and you set up a user name and was chatting with her and all that (just to summarize). Unfortunately, we really aren't trying to offend you here, but when you ask for people's opinions, some of them are not going to be to your liking.

Again, just my 2 cents worth. Let us know how things turn out.

Maria

[sereneiders]

Well, I hope you're still reading this.

This isn't about who's right or who's wrong, and I don't want to prove you right or wrong either.

Should ny wife ever cheated on me, would I swing? Even if attempting to extrapolate your scenario to mine, MY personal answer wouldn't help you. It isn't a matter of will, but just the nature of the way we all think: when we have missing data, we figure it out based on our personal experience. No matter how much you tell, there would be more missing pieces than the ones you provided, thus any advice would be biased to our personal experience. You wouldn't be able to even treat the answers statistically, because every one of us (including yourself) is a different world.

Being aware of this, should I say "GO FOR IT", or "DON'T", even if I honestly believe this could be missleading you? Sorry but, I wont.

I just tried to stick to the provided data, and make some hypotesis hoping them to be able to help you figure out the answers you're looking for, by yourself. I don't know enough to make statements about you and your relationship. You're the only one able to tell if what I said is right or wrong. This could go on with you telling me "hey dude, you're wrong about this, you're right about that", without taking it personally.

Now, I'll tell you what I got from your words:

Originally Posted by incommunicado

About four years ago, due to some scary problems with money and career (O.K., my failed career), my wife started having affairs. In a nutshell, there were probably at 3 men she had sex with on at least a few occasions. She also exchanged a lot of racy to raunchy e-mails with men we both knew, and sent nude pictures of herself to at least one that I discovered.

This tells a lot about where you are. I may be wrong, of course, but, if that happend and it is a closed chapter, and closed in a way that would allow you two to swing, with the requirements for honesty this implies for most of us, then... why don't you know exactly how many men she had sex with? Why you're still relying on what you discovered, and not in your wife's words for it (given for granted you already talked about this)?

This paragraph tells me you MAY BE still in the dark about a lot of what happened. Yet, it is just a clue, a "MAY BE", thus, it isn't enough for me to advice you against swinging.

You may not want to know, perhaps you two figured out a way to fix the relationship requiring to avoid addressing some subjects that could be hurtfull, and I am asking here if the same you did, proving to be enough to fix your problems, would be enough to engange in swinging. The fact is, this is a mere conjeture, one of many ways to "explain" why you had chosen your words: I DON'T KNOW, moreover, IT ISN'T MY BUSINESS since you didn't address this point.

However, I believe this should be enough food for tought, that MAY BE here is a big clue for your answer.

And notice, I didn't make any judgment here about you, about your wife, nor about your relationship. Just about the words ringing my bell.

It is up to you to take or leave this. But if you pick it up to just to beat me up because of what I said, I am entitled to suppose I may be touching an open wound, perhaps one you don't want to aknowledge... and AGAIN, I may be wrong.

And I don't care who's right or wrong here, this outcome doesn't affect my life, the only that matters here is what ultimatelly affects YOURS.

[incommunicado]

I am still reading this but I am awfully sick of this thread. You say it's not about right or wrong, and then pull another out of context quote to try to prove me wrong.

This thread was never about about this and you and others have made it such.

Answer my question. Tell me yes. Tell me no. Tell me you don't know enough about us, about the situation, about the cosmos, about whatever to answer my question. But, stop picking little, out of context quotes to try to analyze more than needs to be anlalyzed.

I'm done rephrasing this, in some vain attempt to get you all to understand that we got past our dark time, YEARS have past, and are ready to move on and MAY be ready for this but could use some insight.

Will we swing? Maybe, maybe not. Do I think swinging played a part in her behavior before? Yes. Do I think it could trigger it again? Maybe. That's why I asked the question. If there's no easier answer, fine.

Let me repeat a question I asked in an earlier post that has gone unanswered. How many of you have walked away from a decade or more of good marriage, because your spouse cheated? What's YOUR story? How easy was it for you to walk away? How sure are you that you were right to do so?

Enough about me, let's talk about you.

Originally Posted by sereneiders

Well, I hope you're still reading this.

This isn't about who's right or who's wrong, and I don't want to prove you right or wrong either.

Should ny wife ever cheated on me, would I swing? Even if attempting to extrapolate your scenario to mine, MY personal answer wouldn't help you. It isn't a matter of will, but just the nature of the way we all think: when we have missing data, we figure it out based on our personal experience. No matter how much you tell, there would be more missing pieces than the ones you provided, thus any advice would be biased to our personal experience. You wouldn't be able to even treat the answers statistically, because every one of us (including yourself) is a different world.

Being aware of this, should I say "GO FOR IT", or "DON'T", even if I honestly believe this could be missleading you? Sorry but, I wont.

I just tried to stick to the provided data, and make some hypotesis hoping them to be able to help you figure out the answers you're looking for, by yourself. I don't know enough to make statements about you and your relationship. You're the only one able to tell if what I said is right or wrong. This could go on with you telling me "hey dude, you're wrong about this, you're right about that", without taking it personally.

Now, I'll tell you what I got from your words:



This tells a lot about where you are. I may be wrong, of course, but, if that happend and it is a closed chapter, and closed in a way that would allow you two to swing, with the requirements for honesty this implies for most of us, then... why don't you know exactly how many men she had sex with? Why you're still relying on what you discovered, and not in your wife's words for it (given for granted you already talked about this)?

This paragraph tells me you MAY BE still in the dark about a lot of what happened. Yet, it is just a clue, a "MAY BE", thus, it isn't enough for me to advice you against swinging.

You may not want to know, perhaps you two figured out a way to fix the relationship requiring to avoid addressing some subjects that could be hurtfull, and I am asking here if the same you did, proving to be enough to fix your problems, would be enough to engange in swinging. The fact is, this is a mere conjeture, one of many ways to "explain" why you had chosen your words: I DON'T KNOW, moreover, IT ISN'T MY BUSINESS since you didn't address this point.

However, I believe this should be enough food for tought, that MAY BE here is a big clue for your answer.

And notice, I didn't make any judgment here about you, about your wife, nor about your relationship. Just about the words ringing my bell.

It is up to you to take or leave this. But if you pick it up to just to beat me up because of what I said, I am entitled to suppose I may be touching an open wound, perhaps one you don't want to aknowledge... and AGAIN, I may be wrong.

And I don't care who's right or wrong here, this outcome doesn't affect my life, the only that matters here is what ultimatelly affects YOURS.

[lovinher]

Come on man, nobody told you to walk away from your marriage. There were some "out there" responses but you'll have that here. I'm sorry you went through what you did and you must really love her to forgive as you have. With the amount of posts you have you should know that trust is swinging 101. Right now you don't seem to have that trust completely. IMO, if you had no doubts about swinging you would not have asked...
Can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted with Swinging again?

Do I think swinging played a part in her behavior before? Yes. Do I think it could trigger it again? Maybe.

Why the hell would you chance it? You want it that bad?

[sereneiders]

We've been togheter for 17 years. No one "cheated" on each other, even when we granted each other "permission" to do it should we meet someone able to make it happen, just with a "don't tell" policy, and at some point we started swinging.

Up to me, cheating isn't such a big deal. Loyalty is, and loyalty have to do with the contract you arranged for your relationship (and not a signed paper). Cheating may or may not imply a lack of loyalty.

Can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted with Swinging again? perhaps. Can spouses who have been unloyal ever be trusted with Swinging again? I doub't so, unless a lot of water passed under the bridge.

Again, there's no "yes" or "no". Ask someone else.

[BorisNatasha]

Originally Posted by incommunicado

Some of your harsher answers and more precipitous judgments have inspired a second question: How many of you have walked away from 10 years or more of marriage that was mostly very good, because you discovered your spouse had strayed? I understand your faith being shaken to the core, but how did you know you made the right decision being that unforgiving? Looking back, are you sure you made the right decision? How can you know for sure?

I ended a 6 year co-habitating relationship over infidelity. I did it because I knew I could never trust her again. I know I made the right decision because now I'm with a lovely, wonderful, faithful woman who has been through the same thing I have and knows the pain it causes. We also both know that if either of us does cheat, it will be the end, whether it happens at 5 years or 25 years.

Some people can handle cheating and recover from it, some cannot. It's not a knock on you either way, so please don't take it that way.

[incommunicado]

I only logged back on because people were courteous enough to answer my questions in a non-judgmental fashion.

You are right. Cheating isn't a big deal, loyalty is as is respect. And, during our bad time, she acted out with an extremism that showed a lack of both. It is only her pleading, her willingness to come clean about everything (eventually), and the fact that her behavior was so over the top that it screamed of a problem, that allowed me to even consider staying.

Maybe it was just our problems that caused her to go off the deep end. Maybe it was that in conjunction with Swinging. Having swung, intermittently, with people over our first ten years, I would think that if it was the taste of swinging that caused her to cut loose, she would have done it far earlier than our 11th year, since we had swung, in some form or another, during that time. It was only during our problem time that she began to mis-behave. Now we have 4 years of good behavior to refer back on. Never-the-less, you are correct. Why chance it? So, I won't.

Originally Posted by sereneiders

We've been togheter for 17 years. No one "cheated" on each other, even when we granted each other "permission" to do it should we meet someone able to make it happen, just with a "don't tell" policy, and at some point we started swinging.

Up to me, cheating isn't such a big deal. Loyalty is, and loyalty have to do with the contract you arranged for your relationship (and not a signed paper). Cheating may or may not imply a lack of loyalty.

Can spouses who have cheated ever be trusted with Swinging again? perhaps. Can spouses who have been unloyal ever be trusted with Swinging again? I doub't so, unless a lot of water passed under the bridge.

Again, there's no "yes" or "no". Ask someone else.