Manipulation within a relationship

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

This was stated in another thread:

Originally Posted by Estaque

I would love to know how many people who have ever been in a relationship and have never subtely attempted to manipulate their partner in any way to get what they want. Anyone who claims they haven't is most likely being dishonest.

We are a pretty open group here, so lets hear it.

I can honestly say I cannot remember a time when I have manipulated anyone I was in a relationship with. There just is no need all I have to do is ask, the same goes for her and the ones that went before....

On the same note, isnt manipulating or coaxing (as the initial term was used) for small things (eating out, new shirt, shoes, pistol ....whatever) diffrent than manipulating for sex, ESPECIALLY when the outcome involves more than one person and could very well be the pivot for a failed relationship? Twisting the facts for your personal gain is just plain disrespectful an selfish

[Amanda69]

ahh come on...we all manipulate in subtle, unharmful ways...a subtle smile, a hint for something we would like for our birthday's...the look when we don't like the way somthing is going...the question "Is something wrong?" and giving the answer "nothing."...

We aren't perfect, makes us human. If we could all communicate clearly, directly, 100% of the time we wouldn't need counsellors or mediators...

[Estaque]

Originally Posted by ANGEDKY(mr)

On the same note, isnt manipulating or coaxing (as the initial term was used) for small things (eating out, new shirt, shoes, pistol ....whatever) diffrent than manipulating for sex, ESPECIALLY when the outcome involves more than one person and could very well be the pivot for a failed relationship? Twisting the facts for your personal gain is just plain disrespectful an selfish

You really ought to be more clear. "Manipulating someone" isn't the same thing as "twisting facts". "Twisting facts" is borderline dishonesty, while "manipulation" can encompass a whole host of things that don't have to be dishonest at all.

Just by penning manipulation as nothing more than fact twisting, you have already engaged in manipulation in this very thread.

Regardless, I don't see any difference between manipulating someone to get the birthday gift you want or to get sex. Why do you differentiate between them?

[sexyshelby]

Sure, I've manipulated people to get what I want...Who hasn't? Like Amanda said, we all do it for smaller minor things. One of the big differences is the potenial side affects. Manipulating someone into taking you out to a fancy dinner has fairly minor consequences compared to manipulating your partner to swing.

Originally Posted by Estaque

Regardless, I don't see any difference between manipulating someone to get the birthday gift you want or to get sex. Why do you differentiate between them?

You're kidding right?

~SS

[Estaque]

Originally Posted by sexyshelby

Sure, I've manipulated people to get what I want...Who hasn't? Like Amanda said, we all do it for smaller minor things. One of the big differences is the potenial side affects. Manipulating someone into taking you out to a fancy dinner has fairly minor consequences compared to manipulating your partner to swing.


You're kidding right?

~SS

No, I'm not kidding. Manipulating anyone for any reason *could* have devastating consequences. Or not.

For instance, manipulating someone to take you out for an expensive meal as you posit could have tough consequences if the person is on the verge of filing bankruptcy.

When we engage in manipulation a moral person would consider the potential consequences of engaging in such behavior, I suppose, but it's not a pre-requisite.

Everytime you and your partner swing with another couple do you take it upon yourself to determine the potential adverse effects to all parties who will be involved in your playtime activities?

Is is okay to manipulate people you don't care about, but not okay to manipulate those you do? Where do you draw your lines?

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

Ok I'll agree to strike "Twisting the facts", using your term of "accentuating the positives" in its place.

When you place a certain amount of additional weight to the positive side of something, you remove the attention from the negative side thus presenting a biased view. In a swinging sense talking about all the parties, new friendships, puppy piles, and what have you. In turn mumbling about (if at all) or casually mentioning one time the dangers of STD's and date rape drugs does not allow your partner a fair portrayal by which to make a decision. What happens when the yearly checkup reveals an STD?? Who is to blame for the contraction? Who picks up the pieces of the mental fallout? The SO was given a skewed picture of the scene by which to make a decision. That is what makes it negative.

Originally Posted by Angedky(mr)

I can honestly say I cannot remember a time when I have manipulated anyone I was in a relationship with.

Sure I have manipulated plenty of people OUTSIDE of my relationships as Shelby has said "Who hasn't?" I am specifically speaking as to what happens inside the relationship and the negative effects it has.

There is a line, for some (like me) it is outside the marriage, for some it appears that the line is based on the depth harm, as I am sure there is no line for others. I stand by my statment that there is no place for it within a relationship.

[Estaque]

Originally Posted by ANGEDKY(mr)

Sure I have manipulated plenty of people OUTSIDE of my relationships as Shelby has said "Who hasn't?" I am specifically speaking as to what happens inside the relationship and the negative effects it has.

There is a line, for some (like me) it is outside the marriage, for some it appears that the line is based on the depth harm, as I am sure there is no line for others. I stand by my statment that there is no place for it within a relationship.

So you have never attempted to strike a bargain with your mate on something you wanted but your spouse was adamantly against? You have never said something like "Dear, I will mow the grass if you give me a blowjob." (or something to the effect)?

You must be very easy to shut down on your wants, whims, desires. All your spouse has to do is say "no" and you obviously don't pursue things any further, huh? What an ideal relationship you have.

Or perhaps it's the other way around and your spouse never says no to you and gives in to your every whim. What a wonderful relationship.

Either way, apparently you never find yourself in disagreement with your spouse to the extent that you have to use any further recourse to getting your way. Sounds like the uber-relationship to me!

[LFM2]

We don't call it manipulation in our household.

We "Ray Hunt" to get what we want. You see, Ray Hunt is a famous horseman who's trained horses for years. It works pretty good on our kids.

The theory is that you make the horse think it's his own idea. Both Mr. LFM and I have grown up around ranches, horses and he cowboy'd for many years on ranches while I did a lot of day work. Thinking about it, it's a very subtle form of manipulation.

We are different than horses however, because we can reason and think a bit more beyond the hay and oats. I know when I'm being Ray Hunt'ed by Mr. LFM, and on the other side of the coin, he knows when I'm doing the same thing. We don't really mind. There is always a delicious reward at the end.

My mother was the Queen of Manipulations. We called her the cruise director of guilt trips. She manipulated by making you feel like shit if you didn't do what she wanted.

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

Ad hominem responses initiate my autoresponder

[LFM2]

Why don't you clarify and direct to whom that nasty troll post was pointed at

[Estaque]

Originally Posted by ANGEDKY(mr)

Ad hominem responses initiate my autoresponder

Getting frustrated because you can't advance your position with logic, I see.

As an aside, I think it is funny in an ironic sort of way that you started this thread by quoting *me*, and now call me a troll, dismiss my points as "ad hominems", and tell everyone not to "feed the trolls" with a post designed to incite me.

Another 'intellectual' poseur bites the dust.

[Estaque]

Originally Posted by LFM2

We don't call it manipulation in our household.

We "Ray Hunt" to get what we want. You see, Ray Hunt is a famous horseman who's trained horses for years. It works pretty good on our kids.

The theory is that you make the horse think it's his own idea. Both Mr. LFM and I have grown up around ranches, horses and he cowboy'd for many years on ranches while I did a lot of day work. Thinking about it, it's a very subtle form of manipulation.

We are different than horses however, because we can reason and think a bit more beyond the hay and oats. I know when I'm being Ray Hunt'ed by Mr. LFM, and on the other side of the coin, he knows when I'm doing the same thing. We don't really mind. There is always a delicious reward at the end.

My mother was the Queen of Manipulations. We called her the cruise director of guilt trips. She manipulated by making you feel like shit if you didn't do what she wanted.

Exactly what I had in mind when I stated the "manipulation" thing in that other thread. Some people are just too intellectually dishonest to admit they engage in such human behaviors.

Me? Manipulate? Oh no, NEVER! *GASP*

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

Originally Posted by LFM2

Why don't you clarify and direct to whom that nasty troll post was pointed at

Certainly, it was directed towards Mr. Estaque ! My sincerest apology for not clarifying! Surrender

One final note to Mr Estaque.... I was preparing a post for you responding to the diffrences between "Bargain", "Bribery", and "Manipulation" and I noticed that 1) your postings appear to be inconsistent over your membrship 2) you have 3 threads where you are attacking several members of this board and 3) you resorted to insulting my marriage instead of poking holes in my theories of why manipulation belongs outside the relationship. From these facts I deleted my post, called you on ad hominem and labeled you as a troll

G'day

[LFM2]

Originally Posted by ANGEDKY(mr)

Certainly, it was directed towards Mr. Estaque ! My sincerest apology for not clarifying!

G'day

Not a problem. Looking over his older posts... He seems to be angry at something. I hope he finds peace. JMHO...

[Estaque]

Originally Posted by ANGEDKY(mr)

Certainly, it was directed towards Mr. Estaque ! My sincerest apology for not clarifying! Surrender

One final note to Mr Estaque.... I was preparing a post for you responding to the diffrences between "Bargain", "Bribery", and "Manipulation" and I noticed that 1) your postings appear to be inconsistent over your membrship 2) you have 3 threads where you are attacking several members of this board and 3) you resorted to insulting my marriage instead of poking holes in my theories of why manipulation belongs outside the relationship. From these facts I deleted my post, called you on ad hominem and labeled you as a troll

G'day

First intellectual dishonesty, and now libel.

You ought to be ashamed.

It's no wonder this forum is so dead, what with all the malicious and dishonest attacks on attempts at open/honest discussion.