Manipulation within a relationship

[Estaque]

Originally Posted by LFM2

Not a problem. Looking over his older posts... He seems to be angry at something. I hope he finds peace. JMHO...

I love all the pseudo-psychologists on internet forums that think they have some sort of special insight into a person's psyche!



I mean it cracks me up to what extent people will go to to avoid answering uncomfortable questions, really.

[Estaque]

deleted

[havefuninsun]

OK, here's a good question for ya -- why is manipulation a BAD thing? In this context, it seems that there is always a negative consequence or reason or intent when manipulating. I suggest that manipulation isn't a bad thing -- what is "bad" is WHY the technique may be used ... like a lot of things. I manipulate every single day. I call it "negotiating" more than anything else ... sometimes I get my way, sometimes I don't. But if I can get my way on something, why shouldn't I??

When the poster earlier said they can't remember a time that they manipulated, I'd bet that what they meant by that is they can't remember a time they manipulated a loved one in a negative way, or selfish way, or had reason to believe some harm would come out of the situation and they proceeded anyway (i.e., the example of manipulating someone to take you to dinner when they were on the verge of bankruptcy.). The poster probably didn't mean "hey -- I'll rub your feet if you stop what you're doing and make a pitcher of those awsome margarita's of yours" (true story. This form of "manipulation" happened last night ). I negotiated the deal; Mr. Fun was busy (bless his heart); Mr. Fun loves foot rubs almost as much as blow jobs, and I wanted a margarita. It worked out for all involved.

Manipulation isn't "bad." It's negotiating a deal that you find favorable.

[LFM2]

Originally Posted by Estaque

I love all the pseudo-psychologists on internet forums that think they have some sort of special insight into a person's psyche!



I mean it cracks me up to what extent people will go to to avoid answering uncomfortable questions, really.

Being that I work with psychiatric patients, I'll take that as a compliment.

Now, what "uncomfortable" question did you ask?

[Estaque]

Originally Posted by LFM2

Being that I work with psychiatric patients, I'll take that as a compliment.

Heh heh heh heh! Sometime in my office I think I do too!

[CB_n_Red]

Originally Posted by Estaque

It's no wonder this forum is so dead, what with all the malicious and dishonest attacks on attempts at open/honest discussion.

Dead? Malicious? Dishonest?

Good grief......

CB

[Spoomonkey]

I once asked my wife to PLEASE get me a beer...

I used the old big blue puppy dog eyes...

I feel dirty now...

Spoomonkey

[Thrax]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

I once asked my wife to PLEASE get me a beer...
I used the old big blue puppy dog eyes...
I feel dirty now...
Spoomonkey

You...you...bonobo, you! (Since when do monkeys have blue puppy-dog eyes? You are obviously some type of mutant. Well, actually, we know that.)

Anyway, for the OP, the word manipulate...just a minute, let me grab the thesaurus...has equivalents in beguile, control, direct, engineer, exploit, finagle (a favorite of mine), finesse, gear, influence, machinate, pull strings, push around, shape, steer, use, etc., ...

Most of the synonyms of "manipulate" are negative, a few are positive, and a few are neutral. To me it appears that manipulation is an underhanded method of getting your partner to engage in an activity that he or she would not otherwise necessarily be in favor of. Is manipulation when you force an activity or when you ask a partner to "consider" an activity? I think the former.

I suggest that the OP read a lot more of the threads on this Board and maybe he or she can come to the conclusion as I have that many of the posters here (at least the active ones...you know, the not-dead ones...the ones that keep the Board active and the discussions going) are very much into engaging in swinging as a COUPLE. That is, the feelings, wants, and desires of BOTH parties are considered. In other words, if they can't do it as a team, engaging in activities in which there is mutual satisfaction, both parties participating without either doing something he or she doesn't want to do, then they don't do it.

COMPROMISE! CONSIDERATION for the feelings of someone else! RESPECT!

And, that goes for the people they play with, and if those folks are singles in the lifestyle, that applies to them, too.

It's one thing to strongly suggest something, to encourage or persuade someone to do something, but do folks on this Board encourage FORCING someone, PRESSURING them, BLACKMAILING, BURDENING, COERCING, COMMANDING, DEMANDING, IMPELLING, IMPOSING, PRESSURING, or REQUIRING to do something? In general, I think the answer is, "NO."

Thrax

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

Thrax--you are exactly right. Amazingly enough I do get it. I started the thread on a neutral(ish) basis because of another members inference that coaxing (his words: accentuating the positive) a partner to swing was, in fact ok. I objected, substituting "Manipulation" for "Coaxing", he did not object, and actually went as far as advocating manipulation in the relationship. He also went on to say that there was no distinction between manipulation for gifts/favors and manipulation for sex, specifically multiple partner. Again I objected and started a new thread to unjack the old one.

I double checked Merriam-Webster before starting the thread and it talks about unfair, insidious and artful means to get what you want and as I explained earlier today in a p.m. to a diffrent member swapping a foot rub for a tub-o-margeritas is a bargain or a bribe, but certainly not manipulation.

I get it, I swear I do. We may have more stringent standards in our house than others, but I cannot for the life of me find any reason where it is ok (or needed)to manipulate my wife to get something that I can get by simply asking. That goes for anything from the cold beer in the fridge to a new gadget, sleepovers or whatever. Interestngly enough this is a two-way street for us.

Hope that semi-clears the air.....

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by ANGEDKY(mr)

We are a pretty open group here, so lets hear it.

I can honestly say I cannot remember a time when I have manipulated anyone I was in a relationship with. There just is no need all I have to do is ask, the same goes for her and the ones that went before....

On the same note, isnt manipulating or coaxing (as the initial term was used) for small things (eating out, new shirt, shoes, pistol ....whatever) diffrent than manipulating for sex, ESPECIALLY when the outcome involves more than one person and could very well be the pivot for a failed relationship? Twisting the facts for your personal gain is just plain disrespectful an selfish

I will say honestly that in earlier relationships I did manipulate, but at that point in my life I didn't know any better. After seeing the aftermath of such actions I consciously make an effort to never do it to Mrs. WS or anyone else, sometimes to my own detriment, maybe. But, at least I can sleep at night now.

Mr. WS

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

I once asked my wife to PLEASE get me a beer...

I used the old big blue puppy dog eyes...

I feel dirty now...

Spoomonkey

Mrs. WS calls those my "cookie eyes" since their the same eyes I give her when I want her to make chocolate chip cookies.

Mr. WS

[Thrax]

Originally Posted by ANGEDKY(mr)

Thrax--you are exactly right. Amazingly enough I do get it. I started the thread on a neutral(ish) basis because of another members inference that coaxing (his words: accentuating the positive) a partner to swing was, in fact ok. I objected, substituting "Manipulation" for "Coaxing", he did not object, and actually went as far as advocating manipulation in the relationship. He also went on to say that there was no distinction between manipulation for gifts/favors and manipulation for sex, specifically multiple partner. Again I objected and started a new thread to unjack the old one.

I double checked Merriam-Webster before starting the thread and it talks about unfair, insidious and artful means to get what you want and as I explained earlier today in a p.m. to a diffrent member swapping a foot rub for a tub-o-margeritas is a bargain or a bribe, but certainly not manipulation.

I get it, I swear I do. We may have more stringent standards in our house than others, but I cannot for the life of me find any reason where it is ok (or needed)to manipulate my wife to get something that I can get by simply asking. That goes for anything from the cold beer in the fridge to a new gadget, sleepovers or whatever. Interestngly enough this is a two-way street for us.

Hope that semi-clears the air.....

ANGEDKY(mr), you have my deepest apologies, as well as thanks for responding with such grace. My little rant was actually directed to Estaque. It took me so long to write it that I forgot that he wasn't the original poster. So, if anyone bothers to re-read my post (#23 in this thread), please replace my mentions of the OP with Estaque.

Thrax
P.S. But I still think Spoo is a mutant.

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

it's all good