The husband and my wife spend alot of time talking...should I be worried?

[VanHlebar]

Mrs Van and I have met this other couple that is just fantastic. The four of us click so well that it is amazing. We have so many similar interests and such similar backgrounds that it is almost scarry. So what is the problem right?

The husband and Mrs Van have really hit it off. We have played with this coulpe a number of times and each time she has had a great time with him while I have had "issues" on occasion with the wife. The husband and Mrs Van seem to spend alot of time talking with each other. They chat via IM throughout most of the day and when not on IM they talk over texts on their cell phones. This is the problem for me. Either he sends her a text or she sends him one first thing each morning just to say goos morning and then again before they goto bed to say good night. We have talked about this and Mrs Van has assured me that there is nothing here other than attraction to him as a playmate. Mrs Van has never given me any reason to doubt her intentions and I am sure I can trust her.

Another issue, this is the couple some might recall that Mrs Van and the other couple planned a suprise for me during busy season. The wife showed up at my office before we all met for an office suprise. I didn't ask for it and in hind sight I don't think it should have occured. Mrs Van and I had expressed our desire at the beginning that we would play only as a couple and never alone. Well now that this has occurred both the husband and Mrs Van have expressed interest in meeting alone. I am not comfortable with this and all of us know it. Everyone has agreed that it would not happen unless I am comfortable with it.

So taking this along with the on going communication they have and I will say the green headed moster has popped up in a bad way. I really like this couple but I am scared as hell by the conversations. He is always very complimentary and flaterring to Mrs Van. It is very uncomfortable to get up in the morning and she has already received a txt message and usually already chatting. Then we head to bed and as we are crawling into bed she has to send a good night message to him.

Would anyone else be concerned? Are these just the thoughts of an insecure husband who needs to figure it out? We have play with very few people up to this point but this has never occured. It has me scared so bad that I am actually wondering if swinging is really for me or us.

Sorry for the long post.

-Van

[Lawguy]

Originally Posted by VanHlebar

Mrs Van and I have met this other couple that is just fantastic. The four of us click so well that it is amazing. We have so many similar interests and such similar backgrounds that it is almost scarry. So what is the problem right?

The husband and Mrs Van have really hit it off. We have played with this coulpe a number of times and each time she has had a great time with him while I have had "issues" on occasion with the wife. The husband and Mrs Van seem to spend alot of time talking with each other. They chat via IM throughout most of the day and when not on IM they talk over texts on their cell phones. This is the problem for me. Either he sends her a text or she sends him one first thing each morning just to say goos morning and then again before they goto bed to say good night. We have talked about this and Mrs Van has assured me that there is nothing here other than attraction to him as a playmate. Mrs Van has never given me any reason to doubt her intentions and I am sure I can trust her.

Another issue, this is the couple some might recall that Mrs Van and the other couple planned a suprise for me during busy season. The wife showed up at my office before we all met for an office suprise. I didn't ask for it and in hind sight I don't think it should have occured. Mrs Van and I had expressed our desire at the beginning that we would play only as a couple and never alone. Well now that this has occurred both the husband and Mrs Van have expressed interest in meeting alone. I am not comfortable with this and all of us know it. Everyone has agreed that it would not happen unless I am comfortable with it.

So taking this along with the on going communication they have and I will say the green headed moster has popped up in a bad way. I really like this couple but I am scared as hell by the conversations. He is always very complimentary and flaterring to Mrs Van. It is very uncomfortable to get up in the morning and she has already received a txt message and usually already chatting. Then we head to bed and as we are crawling into bed she has to send a good night message to him.

Would anyone else be concerned? Are these just the thoughts of an insecure husband who needs to figure it out? We have play with very few people up to this point but this has never occured. It has me scared so bad that I am actually wondering if swinging is really for me or us.

Sorry for the long post.

-Van

Van, this is NOT the green headed monster calling you--this is common sense. I hate to quote Doctor Laura, but hey, wake up and smell the coffee. There is obviously more than a simple sexual attatraction between the Mr. and your Mrs. They want to meet alone. Why? The answer to that question will tell you everything. Just my opinion here, but I think that you should cut the other couple off completely. Perhaps not forever, but at least six months, etc. My guess is that you'll find your wife still trying to keep up communication with him. If she can handle six months with no communication, then I'll be the first to apologize, but if not, then yes, you have much to fear.

Lawguy

[EvilMJ]

VanHlebar,

We have our boundaries set for a reason. Comfort zones. It most likely is that your wife is doing all this innocently, feeling that she loves you and this is not a threat to your marriage. However if it is in any way leaving you feeling uncomfortable, then it has to stop and you need to talk to her about this.

We had a similar situation in our past where the wife of a couple would leave messages on my husband's cell phone (very sexy messages). Now I knew my husband loved me and would never cheat on me, but it did leave me feeling hurt, and worried. Therefore we had to stop that. We all have that feeling of insecurity, that voice that whispers "what if' if our ear. Perhaps you need to sit down all four of you and discuss what is allowed and what is not i.e: the constant messaging and chatting. They may not realize this is a problem with you, until you tell them.

You just have to tell the Mrs. how you feel, and regardless of whether she thinks it is innocent or not, it is causing a problem and therefore needs to come to a halt. Ask her to reverse the situation, would she feel comfortable if you were doing this with another woman.

To me it would be too close to a realationship for comfort, it might work for others, and that is perfectly fine, but it is clear that it is not working for you.

[graygo98]

Me.... I'd be very concerned. Things seem to be spinning out of control, or at least well out of your comfort zone. Hit the brakes hard and now.

Perhaps couples that seek "friends with benefits" have a different take on things. For us, though, swinging is about the sheer fun we enjoy in each other's excitement, the thrill of the chase and the electricity of purely hedonistic sex with others. Its not about developing relationships with other couples, or friendships or anything like that. We have friends, we have our relationship. Sure, we have to like and be interested in the people we hang with but taking it any further than that is both unnecessary and, as your situation shows, way too complicated.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by VanHlebar

...Everything You Said....

Would anyone else be concerned? Are these just the thoughts of an insecure husband who needs to figure it out?

Yeah, I'd be concerned. VERY concerned, since this is obviously troubling you, but she is persisting in it.

Swinging is supposed to be fun, and your participation in it is supposed to draw you closer together. At this point, at least with this couple, it is doing neither.

You've mentioned that you're relatively new at this. May offer a piece of advice from one who's "been there," and who admittedly has some views of swinging that not everybody in here shares?

Don't EVER feel you need to apologize for encountering "The Green-headed Monster."

Many times, that "bad feeling" you get about a situation, that "little voice" that's telling you to "Run, Forrest, run!" isn't a bad thing at all. It's your guardian angel, telling you to get the hell away from somebody or something. Listen to it!

The generally-accepted "Golden Rule" of swinging is that "No means NO." Why shouldn't that apply to you, and your wife's relationships with other people, as well? One of the best rules we ever had, and in fact, probably the only one we ever really needed or adhered to, was the notion that we each held total veto power over any person, place, or activity. No discussion, no arguments, no whining. If either of us was uncomfortable with something or someone, we didn't proceed any further, period. That rule probably cost us a few missed opportunities along the way, but it avoided oh-so-many problems as well.

It's no secret that I like to ride/drive a little faster than I ought. But when I'm on an unfamiliar road, and I encounter a sign that says "slow, curves" or "traffic light ahead" I don't think of it as a "monster"...a nuisance there only to spoil my fun. Rather, I see it as a message meant to warn my ass of impending doom if I don't slow down.

Swinging IS the "fast lane" of relationships. You've been negotiating the curves pretty well so far, but now you're seeing the signs telling you to slow down, or there may be problems ahead. Heed them.

[BiWoman33]

It sounds like there is a real infatuation between the two of them- why else does he wake and and think of her first thing? It should stop - I don't doubt that his wife is getting pretty uncomfortable with it, too. If he wasn't a friend she had regular sex with, it might be just fine, but the physical aspect heightens the friendship. It sounds like a runaway train, if they don't become aware of what they are doing. At the same time, Van, your posts always reflect your intelligence and the great communication you have with your wife, and I sense that you can work it out together very well. Keep us posted....

[VanHlebar]

Thanks all for the responses. I would like to first attempt to clarify my issue and restate that Mrs Van has never ever ever, given me any reason to think that she would cheat on me. I agree that this whole issue has made me feel very uncomfortable.

I think I might have misprepsented some stuff. They do text alot back and forth, but the good night message was once. Mrs Van has always said that if I was uncomfortable with them that we could call it off. The problem is that I would have to say to her that it needs to stop which makes me feel really quilty for doing so.

I have really portrayed her poorly in my above post and after rereading the post I feel really bad about doing so. Mrs Van I am sure will post here soon to correct my mistakes and I apologize to all for airing out our dirty laundry on the board.

Thanks again for the honest answers folks.

-Van

[Sweet_Candy]

Let's ignore what you said about Mrs. Van for a moment. The issue here is that you are uncomfortable with the relationship that you two have with this other couple. Break it off with them would be our advice. You've already spoken of way too much drama for us to deal with. Remember there are always others out there to play with. Listen to your intuition. Your marriage is paramount not the relationship with this other couple.

[sereneiders]

Ms Van,

Swingers define their own "confort zones" as EviMJ expressed it. We either stick to these "confort zones" or shift the "confort zones" to adapt them to the situation (perhaps only as an exception with special playmates), or we run into troubles.

Swingers thumb rule says "avoid emotional attachments with your playmates" as a way to stick to safe "confort zones". But this is a wishfull thinking: we're not owners of our feelings as to control them at will. Shit happens.

Now, I believe part of the problem here is finding out your wife feels very good with this other guy around, that she found out another soulmate, but neither you nor the other couple's wife developed the same sort of feelings, so your wife is getting more than what you get from this relationship.

As a side tought, this may resemble those scenarios we often see around, where the guy isn't up to accept the wife is getting more fun than himself.

In this case, the problem isn't the fun, but the developed emotions. If I were to follow the Swingers Manual and advice by the book, I'd stick to the advices you already got, but there is something related to your wife honesty here to take into account, if you believe in her words or if you doesn't. Because by calling off at this point, you may hurt your wife's feelings.

Perhaps there's a question we have to ask to ourselves: Do we have the right to develop emotions towards other people, besides our spouses, or we haven't? I know my answer is: we do have that right, moreover, it is something beyond our control as to prettend to rule over that. Should you want to rule about this, then this rule should have been engaged way long ago, preventing you two even to become friends from your playmates to deprive each other from the chance to develop these feelings.

But it seems to me it was ok for you to accept this other couple friendship, to enjoy the click you four had, because even for you that couple was (still is?) fantastic. You too developed your own feelings towards that couple, and t would be up to you to decide if the feelings you developed towards them, even when not to the same degree than your wife's feelings, grant them some credit able to make them part of the solution and not only part of the problem.

Should this relation keep going on, they you'd have to shift your "confort zones", because it's likely to end up in a polyamoral relationship, but for this to happen, you'd have to solve the issues you have with your wife, and then the four of you would have to solve the issues you have between the couples (moreover, the differences in the way your wife relate with this other guy and the way you relate with this guy's wife).

In any case, your wife must understand that whatever she does have an effect on you, should she want to keep doing it, she must take care of you to get rid of the side effects. It seems to me you're failing to make this point, that she is failing to understand it, or that the feelings involved for both of you are interferring in your communication. I believe this is what for sure need to change to avoid 1) tearing your marriage, and 2) tearing whatever relation you may pursue with this couple.

The conservative approach to produce this change would be to call off and solve this with your wife, alone, but given the feelings YOU TWO already developed (including your jealousy), this may become a long road.

A less conservative approach would be to include the other marriage. They may have their own issues. Doesn't the wife knows about the husband text messages? what's her reaction and feelings?. She may be ok with this and they may want to go on with the relationship, and they may understand they have to change things as weell to respect your own confort zones as part of this foursome, or they may want to go on but prove to your wife and to you they doesn't care about you, throwing to the ground both your and your wife expectations, and even they may not want to commit in any other level with you two. In any case, either the four of you understand the issue here and make an effor to overcome it, or you wife would realize she was stepping over your toes for something that din't worth it... and if she still feels it worths, then you'd have way more serious problems in your marriage and you'd be aware of these for sure.

I'ts up to you (two) to decide is this other couple worth such an effort or if they doesn't worth it.

[sexyshelby]

If you are uncomfortable, things need to stop. Bottom line!

I don't think you portrayed Mrs Van in any negative way. Assuming what you said is true, this is an issue that needs to be tackled before moving forward.
I think we've come to know Mrs. Van and know that she is a loving wife. Regardless of whether or not she is planning on cheating on you (which I doubt), this arangement still needs to end.

~SS

[Darter02]

Originally Posted by VanHlebar

Would anyone else be concerned? Are these just the thoughts of an insecure husband who needs to figure it out? We have play with very few people up to this point but this has never occured. It has me scared so bad that I am actually wondering if swinging is really for me or us.

Oh yes, you should be very concerned indeed. I speak from experience here, and from both sides of the fence.

Recently the wife of a couple I know and who’ve “we” (as in the ex & I) have had encounters with has been contacting me via IM. She has begun the pattern you are seeing. She IM’s me “good morning” and if I am online late, “good night.” At first I assumed it was all just friendly. She then asked me to lunch, I accepted. There I found out her hubby, who I know, was not aware of our lunch. Now she is sending me mail outlining a sexual affair she wants with me. Needless to say I am not biting.

You really need to discuss this with her. I can only hope she will see your side of things and pull back from the edge. I am not saying she is cheating on you but the potential for disaster is there.

My best wishes to you and her.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by VanHlebar

Mrs Van has never ever ever, given me any reason to think that she would cheat on me.

I'm kind of curious about this, since, in re-reading your original post, I can find a half-dozen reasons why I would think otherwise.

Some people cheat as a way of getting their partners attention. They'll give off all kinds of little "hints," because they want to be caught. Others cheat simply as a way of getting extra attention from someone other than their spouse. Those people can be very effective at keeping their affairs secret, often for many years.

I don't know what your wife's intentions are with all this, but there is absolutely NO reason for him to be chatting with her at all hours of the day, and there is absolutely NO reason for her to be responding to him.

Another thing I'm curious about...does his wife know about all this? If not, maybe it's time to bring her into the loop...

[VanHlebar]

Hey folks thanks again for all the replies.

I agree that the easiest thing would be to call off any future relationship with this couple. This option at the present time is not what any of us want. I agree with Sereinders that this I think is more of me making an issue than there really being one.

SexyShelby, thank you very much for seeing the true MrsVan that I see. She has never hidden these messages and I don't believe she is planning to cheat. I didn't want this to become a trash MrsVan thread and I appreciate everyone for trying to help me with my issues without tearing her apart.

We are continuing to discuss this issue and I think I just need to figure how to accept that there really isn't anything more here than what I see.

That is easier said than done however. Again I do appreciate everyone
's comments and even more I appreciate that you folks are able to read a post and apply what you know about us as a couple from other posts to your comments. After rereading my initial post it is very harsh.

Thanks again!
-Van

[The Fuse]

EvilMJ, JnCC and others have good points here. Mrs. Van and the gentleman seem to be infatuated. Giving them both the benefit of the doubt from what we know about them, this is most likely fine and would subside over time. However, you are uncomfortable with the constant communication, even though she is not hiding it. JnCC is right; this is enough to reasonably ask her to stop. If they put a lid on the IMing and texting, this could be enough to let the infatuation subside somewhat, and save the swinging relationship with a couple you both like. Mrs. Van seems sweet and is probably just caught up in what's happening. Good luck.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by VanHlebar

That is easier said than done however. Again I do appreciate everyone
's comments and even more I appreciate that you folks are able to read a post and apply what you know about us as a couple from other posts to your comments. After rereading my initial post it is very harsh.

This is for everyone. When we read a post it seems to me we trend to let us go with the flow of the OP emotions, and that we often give for granted the facts as the OP perceive them.

It is rasonable to assume there will be some harsh comments since the OP usually comes for advice when he/she is already sumerged in his/her current problem, and when we write about our issues we trend to express the ideas trought our feelings glasses.

It doesn't matter if we already know the OP and/or the OP spouse, what does matter is that we have a post and that we know the OP have some degree of pain that makes his/her own subjectivity take the leading, so we shouldn't give for granted the facts stated in the post are objective, and afterwards we shouldn't extrapolate these facts with others we know for sure from our personal experience.

Threfore, I think we should focus ONLY in the OP person, may be ask questions about these things that made us suspicious, advice him/her on the ways to a better understanding of what's going on, but we shouldn't add fuel to the fire being harsh ourselves towards any third person referred in the original post, since we don't know anything about them until they were coming here to tell us their side of the story.

We should be very carefull in the way we read a post from someone in pain, and in the advice we provide.