Trying to work it all out

[Coupleerotic22]

Interesting reply. I must admit I read it quickly, as I am in rush to get out the door. But I have noticed a major shift.

You seem more inclined to figure out how to make a poly situation work for you and your GF, than how to make your marriage work for you and your wife. Forgive me if that is a stretch or incorrect, but it is how it appears to me on the surface.

If I am not mistaken this is the first time you have defined the other women as your GF. I see that as a significant difference and a telling statement as to where your head it at. After reading what slevin/LikeMInds wrote, I was thinking they were correct. But this seems to be more than heightened feelings and pent up frustration and sexual desire.

GF seems to define an ongoing relationship, as in one you seem to wish to continue.

Yes we all want our cake and eat it too, but the cake, your wife in this case, has to be willing. She does not seem to be willing to settle for this situation.

You said you took "who is more important" as a rhetorical question. Perhaps it was the wrong question. Perhaps it should have been what is more important, achieving your perfect idea state or keeping your spousal relationship in tact.

I have much more racing around my head, but need to run.

[VanHlebar]

Originally Posted by Coupleerotic22

You seem more inclined to figure out how to make a poly situation work for you and your GF, than how to make your marriage work for you and your wife. Forgive me if that is a stretch or incorrect, but it is how it appears to me on the surface.

If I am not mistaken this is the first time you have defined the other women as your GF. I see that as a significant difference and a telling statement as to where your head it at.

Sorry I forget which thread I am in at times and how I have referenced her. There hasn't been any shift in how I reference her, she has been referenced between all four of us as my GF and I as her BF for a very very long time and on my other thread/forum I called her my GF right from the get go. Also GF is much easier to type than constantly typing "the other wife" a few dozen times in a post.

I had lunch today with MrsVan and we where discussing my response briefly. I explained to her that after I posted it and then re-read it, that even to me it sounded very defensive. She has already done a great job answering most of the direct questions so I did not feel a need to restate what she said. I was then left with responding to various folks comments. For that I apologize if I did come off as defensive.

I am well aware of where MrsVan is at today. This seems to be changing daily and will probably continue to change as time passes and she works through her own emotions. I don't remember if it was said yet, but I have said to MrsVan and to my GF, that I would, if everyone felt it was required, either temporarily or permanently, stop all association with my GF. That would be ALL, it would be too painful to attempt to remain friends and still see her every so often but not be able to message her, email her, call her or the like. I admitted that it would be very difficult and yes it would be like ending any other relationship, and there would be a period of time, call it a morning period I guess, that I would need to get through. Just like any other relationship that ends, eventually the feelings would subside, I realize that. I have also said that is NOT what I want, but if my wife said it MUST happen, then it MUST happen. My marriage and my wife are my number one priority.

What I just don't get is why attempting to work things out with this couple MUST mean that I am not putting MrsVan first. If MrsVan did not also want to work this out, then this topic would be over and there would be no room for discussion. Fact is, MrsVan does want to work this out in some manner, we just are not sure what that manner is going to be yet for all of us.

Originally Posted by Coupleerotic22

GF seems to define an ongoing relationship, as in one you seem to wish to continue.

This is extremely accurate and I have not tried to hide this position from anyone in our group. If it has appeared in this thread that I have tried to hide this, I apologize and that was purely an over sight. While I do want to maintain my relationship, I do NOT wish to maintain my relationship with my GF to the ruin of my marriage OR to the ruin of MrsVan's friendship with her best friend/my GF. Their happiness and friendship mean more to me than my relationship with my GF. So while it would be difficult to end, if at the end of the day that is what is decided, I will go with it. This thread was started in an attempt to first keep that from happening, as at the present time, not a single person in this group of 4 people want to see that happen. At least not yet anyways.

I look forward to hearing more and I am always willing to clarify or answer what I can. If my situation can help anyone else in the future by reading this then great, but if not, just writing and reading is very helpful to me personally.

-Van

[Coupleerotic22]

No need to apologize. It is clear from the shift in tone and tenor from post to post you are struggling. It is also difficult sometimes, as a reader, to understand a situation in so much flux. You and MrsVan and GF & GFSO (lol) are conversing more often and in more detail than can be conveyed in these post, and the situation is likely to shift frequently.

I guess my bottom line thought it this, just like swinging, all four people in this need to be on the same page for poly to work. If one is even uncertain, then it is a powder keg waiting for a spark.

What I am seeing is, at least one party, MrsVan, has zero desire to maintain a poly relationship. But life is fluid, she may be, or already has, come to the conclusion that it might work. But that is certainly not what I got from her post. Thus my confusion with you last post. Both of your last post seem to show a divergent view, not convergent, but as I said, this situation is in flux.

[gatorvol64]

Originally Posted by VanHlebar

I would argue and I have said this to MrsVan already, and she sort of agreed, we have basically been living in this type of arrangement for the past year and half or more. Poly does not have to be all four members of a group having emotions for each other. It also does not have to have any sexual relationship involved to be called poly.
-Van

Well, I have to say that you are correct about this. Poly is different things to different people. And each relationship a poly person has does not have to be the same. Poly is what you want it to be. What each person in a relationship agrees it is or can be.

Vol

[VanHlebar]

So I had a head slap moment happen back on Wednesday that I hadn't really have the time to fully process until this weekend. I finally had my chance to meet with my GF and we got to really clear the air between us as well and finally I think all 4 of us at least are on the same page and trying to move in a positive direction now.

The head slap moment had occurred to MrsVan, GF and myself all at different times. Mine happened Wednesday night while I was watching GF's little one while her and MrsVan had their talk. The little one was sitting up on my lap and we where watching some cartoons together when it dawned on me that this is NOT just about the four of us. We have watched their little one grow up from the very day she was born and their little one is like another child of ours. It hit me that if this all goes wrong, we may never ever get to see this little one ever again. Add to that, we have become very close with GF's entire family. We have met and always make time to visit with her mom/dad and siblings when they come into town to visit. Then on our side all of our children have become very close to GF and her husband and their little one. So it just really came crashing into me that night, at that very moment that this would become extremely difficult to explain to so many people if it failed.

I say this just to reinforce the fact that while I understand the normal advice given on some many posts of cutting losses and moving on as it is the best thing to do. I even agree with that advice more often than not myself. For anyone who may read this thread in the future because they find themselves in a similar situation, think about the entire situation. This was one part of the equation that never ever dawned on me until it was to late. Thank goodness it has/is working itself out and I am pretty confident that this will not be the case, but before you decide to come out with something like this, realize that the ramifications of it may very well effect so many other people that you never even considered. Just a random thought regarding our situation that I wanted to share for others benefit in the future.

-Van

[slevin]

Originally Posted by VanHlebar

So I had a head slap moment happen back on Wednesday that I hadn't really have the time to fully process until this weekend. I finally had my chance to meet with my GF and we got to really clear the air between us as well and finally I think all 4 of us at least are on the same page and trying to move in a positive direction now.

The head slap moment had occurred to MrsVan, GF and myself all at different times. Mine happened Wednesday night while I was watching GF's little one while her and MrsVan had their talk. The little one was sitting up on my lap and we where watching some cartoons together when it dawned on me that this is NOT just about the four of us. We have watched their little one grow up from the very day she was born and their little one is like another child of ours. It hit me that if this all goes wrong, we may never ever get to see this little one ever again. Add to that, we have become very close with GF's entire family. We have met and always make time to visit with her mom/dad and siblings when they come into town to visit. Then on our side all of our children have become very close to GF and her husband and their little one. So it just really came crashing into me that night, at that very moment that this would become extremely difficult to explain to so many people if it failed.

I say this just to reinforce the fact that while I understand the normal advice given on some many posts of cutting losses and moving on as it is the best thing to do. I even agree with that advice more often than not myself. For anyone who may read this thread in the future because they find themselves in a similar situation, think about the entire situation. This was one part of the equation that never ever dawned on me until it was to late. Thank goodness it has/is working itself out and I am pretty confident that this will not be the case, but before you decide to come out with something like this, realize that the ramifications of it may very well effect so many other people that you never even considered. Just a random thought regarding our situation that I wanted to share for others benefit in the future.

-Van

That would be the reason that many people suggest not swinging or getting involved with friends If something goes bad the implications are far reaching and far more painful.

Glad to hear things are starting to work themselves out. Whatever happens I hope that your friendship stays as strong as it has ever been.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by VanHlebar

So this weekend the crap hit the fan if you will. I have posted much lately as life for MrsVan and I just hasn't been focused on lifestyle things at all. Many may remember a few posts about a couple that we have known for a couple of years that have turned from a standard vanilla couple to playing fun naked games with a bunch of touchy feely stuff as well.

Well about 18mos or so ago, I felt a shift in my emotions towards the other wife, first what I thought may have been just a strong infatuation, then just a deeper connection than typical friends. Well after many months of soul searching and on again off again discussions with MrsVan I have finally come to terms with how I feel. In addition to that it has been made aware to the other couple. She has also confessed feelings for me but I am not sure to what depth.

We are now at the early stages of attempting to figure this all out. MrsVan feels like she is now sharing my love and her best friend, as that is who I have fallen for. While everyone knows deep down that neither of us are going to run off, this is still a lot for us all to deal with. I am struggling to put into terms for MrsVan exactly how I feel, and I am struggling with a way to explain that I do not love her any less. Nor is there anything missing in our relationship. I truely did not seek this out, at first I was confused about my feelings as well. It has happened and now as a group we are attempting to work it out. Any help is welcome. While MrsVan and I may be experienced swingers we are not experienced with poly situations AND our friends have been nothing but a traditional couple for all the years they have been together.

Just looking for some helpful advice....

-Van

Love, like jealousy, is chemical.

You feel it, but you can put your mind in control of it as well. It will pass, but the trick is not doing something overly stupid in the meantime.

New love tells you do stupid things, its its nature, its biology telling you to spread that seed.

My advice is too ignore it, live through the 'pain', and in the end you will be fine. It requires YOUR strength though.

[couplers]

It's Petra back again. Sorry for posting in a flurry then being quiet for so long. Please don't take that for anger or spite, I have been working crazy hours on a project.


Mrs. Van - I certainly don't want to tell you how to deal with what you are facing; it is my intent to present our situation as one more data point you can perhaps use in sorting through things. The give and take here over the years has opened my eyes.


But as I write this I am an ocean away from my husband and home because of work. One of my best friends is in my house with my husband. Although Clair started as my friend then later became David's lover, I appreciate the way she treats him and am flattered by her infatuation with him. We two Skype more than I do with hubby. While the (remote) possibility exists that she could displace me, that could happen even if we were a hard-striving monogamous couple, and would probably be more likely if a one of us felt forced to make a choice. No one can help the way he feels, and having his feelings your husband seems to have handled it responsibly.


The "headslap" moment almost brought tears. Just the same way you guys haven't been fully sexual with the other couple, it may be that a "close enough" arrangement with some rules can allow the positive aspects of that relationship to continue without threatening your marriage. Take care, there is enough to go around.