We were swingers. Now she's progressed without me.

Have you considered a three-way?

[Alura]

I'm just a hick Okie, and I don't claim to have any wisdom on polyamory, but it seems to me y'all have left out a key action that must be taken before this situation can be righted without lingering resentments.

Y'all need to have a sit-down discussion with the other couple. They are intimately involved in this situation. Don't just leave them in the cold.

My best to all four of y'all; I hope it works out well to preserve the friendship which seems to be quite rewarding. It would be a pity to lose it entirely.

Mr. Alura

[couplers]

In a nutshell this thread is what is wrong with so much on this site. There are so many rules, hurt feelings, signals, drama and things to discuss. This is supposed to be about sexually liberated people in a committed relationship that love their spouse so much they are willing to let them have sexual and emotional freedom. If my husband came home tonight and said he had sex or is even in a relationship with another woman, the first thing i would say is, "Is it good? Are you happy?" then I would have sex with him. That's it. There is no "Trust" issue, that's just another jealousy game. It's the same story as in the vanilla world but just twisted around a little more - "Yes, Charles, I love him but we didn't have sex," "No, Amanda, I don't love her but we did have sex." Now it's "Naomi, we can have oral sex in separate rooms, but full intercourse only in the presence of each other except if you say beforehand..." Scheese!

I thought every one here recognized that not only do people not mate for life, but also they are not monogamous. That is the liberation we are all to enjoy.

Maybe I'm too warped by my own situation with a wonderful husband that I adore and "trusts" me so much that I can see my boyfriend several times a week and tell him that I love him even if hubby is there. When I'm tied up doing next year's budget all weekend he can go off with my hot, "I ought to be jealous," horny girlfriend and do whatever they want to do. Guess what - when he gets back it's better than ever.

[Dave_kat]

Dave here, and I have to throw in on this one...

We've (Kat and I) have been in both NSA and polyamory situations. Each type of relationship has a lot of drawbacks, but also has some benefits.

I'm not exactly clear on the total relationship thing here. I have to guess a bit, but I am truly assuming that the issue isn't polyamory itself, but a couple of misunderstandings, thst the 240 mile distance isn't helping with a truly polyamorous situation.

First off, the husband wants to enjoy the group sex aspect, where everyone is in bed together. This can and does happen in a polyamorous relationships. The problem here is that we're also experiencing somewhat of a reunion celebration each time everyone gets together. We're this not part of it, it's entirely possible that it can end up being a foursome when they get together.

Second, if this were a true polyamorous setting, the husband would have some strength of feelings for the other spouse. I'm not meaning to imply that there aren't any, but I wonder if there are some that are not mentioned because noone will admit to them, or they don't exist. Without some kind of mutual "love" there isn't really a polyamorous relationship, just a marriage with a sideline boyfriend and the wife who comes along for the ride. We don't see that aspect here, and while it may not have gone to "I love yous" behind closed doors, I truly lean towards there being something there that the husband and the other wife are getting out of this as well.. Or else they are both going along to try to keep their own relationships going at home. If so, then we're back to swinging and taking one for the team and see above about stopping things.

So I pose a couple of questions here..

1) Can and will the OP couple make the effort to return to their original partner while the other couple is around without the rules/timelimits? Or is there simply an overwhelming desire to be together at all times on the limited time they can get together? In other words, over a 2 week period, would the couples be split into two seperate couples the whole time given the chance, or could they come together and the M-F combination be irrelevant? (I use 2 weeks as that would hopefully be enough time to get over the reunion aspect)

2) How does the OP husband feel about the other wife? Does he feel anything more than a simple sexual attraction? If not, we're again away from a poly situation and more into a one-sided preferred couple situation.

I can understand the husband being upset about getting into this and not getting his desires out of it, but they have talked and there were warning flags put out there. From the OP wife, they truly discussed everything openly, but we have some denied fantasies due to the preferences of everyone involved, which leads to resentment.

To the OP... stop before ya'll piss each other off here, and sit down and conduct an honest assessment. What are each of your feelings towards the other partners? If you are honestly in a one-sided relationship, take your actions from there. But if you both feel a good amount of love towards the others (sexual orientation accordingly of course), then open up and realize that. Realize that you might not be able under your situatiuons to realize every fantasy.

[lovinher]

We need to hear what P's wife thinks about all this.

[TheLorax]

Originally Posted by Dave_kat

truly polyamorous situation.

There is no such thing as a "truly polyamorous situation."

The only thing polyamory requires is that in a relationship there is emotional/romantic attachment to more than one person. There is no requirement for any particular configuration thereof.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by couplers

In a nutshell this thread is what is wrong with so much on this site. There are so many rules, hurt feelings, signals, drama and things to discuss. This is supposed to be about sexually liberated people in a committed relationship that love their spouse so much they are willing to let them have sexual and emotional freedom. If my husband came home tonight and said he had sex or is even in a relationship with another woman, the first thing i would say is, "Is it good? Are you happy?" then I would have sex with him. That's it. There is no "Trust" issue, that's just another jealousy game. It's the same story as in the vanilla world but just twisted around a little more - "Yes, Charles, I love him but we didn't have sex," "No, Amanda, I don't love her but we did have sex." Now it's "Naomi, we can have oral sex in separate rooms, but full intercourse only in the presence of each other except if you say beforehand..." Scheese!

I thought every one here recognized that not only do people not mate for life, but also they are not monogamous. That is the liberation we are all to enjoy.

Maybe I'm too warped by my own situation with a wonderful husband that I adore and "trusts" me so much that I can see my boyfriend several times a week and tell him that I love him even if hubby is there. When I'm tied up doing next year's budget all weekend he can go off with my hot, "I ought to be jealous," horny girlfriend and do whatever they want to do. Guess what - when he gets back it's better than ever.

Your post is an example of what happens when you assume your way is the only way. Just like its wrong to think swinging is for everyone, so is it wrong to think having a completely open polyamorus relationship is for everyone too.

I thought every one here recognized that not only do people not mate for life, but also they are not monogamous. That is the liberation we are all to enjoy.


That is a liberation YOU enjoy, and good for you if it works. While I am not monogamous I don't see me not 'mated for life'. I don't want an emotional crazy roller coaster and I'm perfectly happy with Mrs. Chicup as my only 'lover' as compared to my 'likers'

[VegasLee]

Originally Posted by couplers

In a nutshell this thread is what is wrong with so much on this site.

Just because it is not your way does not make it wrong, just not right for you.

The husband [OP] is not happy with the way this has gone for him and he is part of the cause. He has the right to state that and should.

He is not you or like you but that does not make him wrong in his relationship or his choices.

Like most things in life, different things work for different people.

[Edison Carter]

Susan here -- let's review the husband's broken rules

1. Never lie.

2. Don't do something you're uncomfortable doing.

3. Always communicate with your spouse.

[LagniappeDC]

All we can saw is "wow" -- this is a really deep conversation. And since going down the Poly route is not one that we've ever considered or have experience with we don't feel qualified to weigh in here.

We did want to say that we have the utmost respect for Mrs. 2TT for coming on this board, reading the posts, and responding in dignified manner. I've seen similar postings where the responders tend to attach those who tried to provide advice or insight.

In closing, we would still stick to our original sentiments which is whether we are swinging (or simply going to mall as a lame example), we do it at the speed of the "slowest" person. Where one doesn't feel comfortable, we don't do it. Experimentation is always allowed (even encouraged), but that doesn't mean that it will always be that way. If we try something and one of us isn't happy with the result, we can pull our "get out jail free card" with no hurt feelings by either of us.

It does sound as if the Mrs. 2TT feels there is an open line of communication. I don't necessarily get that from Mr. 2TT (from reading the post). Perhaps a couples counselor would be a worthy investment?

Best of luck to the both of you!

[Dynamar]

Originally Posted by LagniappeDC

We did want to say that we have the utmost respect for Mrs. 2TT for coming on this board, reading the posts, and responding in dignified manner. I've seen similar postings where the responders tend to attac(k) those who tried to provide advice or insight.

[ncmd_couple]

Mr. & Mrs. 2TT,

Thanks to the Mrs. for posting, it clears up a lot of questions. I have been in a similar situation, but thankfully, she wasn't living anywhere close which made it easier, but not fun for me. But it was a sacrifice that I made with open eyes.

S

[Sunswept]

Originally Posted by (Mr) 2TexasTornados

I don't want to stop what's possibly a good thing, but my primary fantasy has been permanently removed: watching my wife enjoy sex with another man.

Originally Posted by (Mrs) 2TexasTornados

I can go on indefinitely loving both men. I have for years. I do have some level of discontent that my husband can pull the rug out from under me, when I've asked for so little along the way and have gone out of my way to fulfill his fantasy needs. P is not comfortable with "on display" sex, and I think 1.5 hours every month or so isn't too much to ask. But my husband does, and of course if he makes me choose, I choose what he wants, over what P wants. But P will never have same room sex, so it will just stop.

Seems like there is room here for a compromise??

While 'NSA Swinging" per se is not in the cards with Mr and Mrs P, what would prevent Mr 2TT and Mrs 2TT swinging with other swinging people as had been done for 2 years, AND Mr and Mrs 2TT also maintaining the poly "V" relationship with Mr& Mrs P? Assuming Mr & Mrs P were open to Mr and Mrs 2TT engaging in swinging with other people as they had done??

Is there a way to turn this into a win/win?? I would not suggest this at all except the "2TexasTornados" seem to be open and have a good relationship. Both are clear about their discomforts, both are clear about their own needs. Mrs 2TT already stated she liked seeing her husband happy swinging, she was OK with giving that to him -maybe Mr 2TT could stretch a bit and return that comperson to Mrs 2TT??

Unless something like that can be worked out, I think the best thing to do would be to drop both swinging and the poly relationship. Reset and reboot. Seems like no matter what is decided, there will be either a bit of shared sacrifice, or a bit of shared discomfort, at least at first.

Would the compromise I suggest be "taking one for the team" for BOTH Mr and Mrs 2TT? Maybe, but what I am really suggesting is that the place to start here is to explore how much each can "grow" toward the other. Maybe it is possible, maybe it is not, the discussion will tell the tale, Alura makes a good point about the other couple being a party to the discussion.

A very wise woman once told me:
"Intention greater than desire equals ecstasy. Desire greater than Intention equals disaster."

Also, Swinger says "It's just sex" -Poly person says "It's just love"

[couplers]

I apologize to the members for having rashly spouted off the way I did. Not only do we not all take the same journey, but we also do not end up in the same place.

From reading Mrs. TT's response it is clear she is a caring, accommodating and intelligent person. I can understand why Mr. TT loves her. So I stick with my advice to Mr. TT - show how much you love her by giving her what she desires regardless of whether it is logical or comports with past promises. Spit in the face of jealousy and tell her that you love her so much that she can plan weekends with him. It's a release that will free you as well.

Think about it: if you were to die tomorrow would you prefer your wife to face a tough, exploitive world where no man loved her, or one where she had some measure of love and support from a man that cares for her. That is what my husband told this confused young girl when I couldn't understand his lack of jealousy with my other continuing relationship.

[2TexasTornados]

This is the Mrs. again...


couplers, I like your style!

A little more background so you may all better psychoanalyze. I do appreciate the input so far.

My husband and I got together on the heels of a break up from a guy who was too controlling for my tastes. Not violently so. Just annoyingly so. I came from a very abusively strict childhood, so I was in no way interested in a man controlling me. My husband was his own man, and let me be my own woman. He NEVER told me how to dress, what to say, when to leave a party, etc. He ALSO never got the least bit jealous, which my 20-year-old self was a little put out about, but I was willing to accept his oblivion since it meant he'd never boss me around. Later, I very much appreciated that he wasn't jealous, and now I believe it was just part of being young and being too green to know that love doesn't have to mean possession.

For many years into our marriage, this continued. He always enjoyed knowing I had close friendships with men, including my ex-boyfriend. He allowed and even encouraged hours-long conversations to which he was not privy. He thought it was great that I had them, and that they had me. Not once in all these years did I ever cheat on him, nor even contemplate it. He trusted me, and I never messed up. I loved him for trusting me.

When he first introduced swinging, I had knee jerk reactions from the old days - jealousy. I thought I had been so careful to avoid sharing this one thing - sex - and now he was going to hand it out. But the more we talked and the more I thought, I realized it was silly. I had my husband, he had me... I was already sharing intimate parts of myself emotionally with others (male), so why not "let" him share himself physically? I shed it all. I genuinely walked away from ALL jealousy and never felt a twinge since. Emotional, physical... I LOVE to think he's sharing with someone else, whomever that may be. I think it's great if he can find the kind of deep bonds that I have with others.

But now he says things like,"Don't you CARE? What if I got this close with P's wife? Wouldn't that alarm you?"

So, this is what we have: He never cared about my emotional bonding before. He was never the least bit jealous and never seemed to expect me to be. He was always open to swinging, even though we spent 12 years monogamous. So, he didn't care about sharing himself (or me) with others physically. He started out our marriage already pretty liberated in his way of thinking, and as the years progressed, he got more liberated... and NOW, he wants me to find it in myself to be jealous if I imagine myself in his place, of having a loving relationship with a playmate. I can't manufacture such a thing.

Also, he was the one who said recently that he was feeling like standard swinging wasn't what he was after, that he'd prefer an exclusive "poly-type" relationship (his words). Once we got there, and he realized his half of the quad wasn't the same brand of connection that my half is, he wants to revert back to standard swinging.

To be honest, I feel like a tug boat tied to his ship that keeps suddenly changing course, and I'm getting whiplash from the turns. I've always tried to take care of him and his emotional needs. I respect every "rule" and have imposed none on him. After the Vegas trip, he told me it was all over with P and his wife, and told me I would only be allowed to hold hands and nothing else. I was upset in the moment, and so chose not to discuss it at the time. I accepted his new ruling and was prepared to move on. Days later, he let up and said he'd be OK with continuing, as long as there were no more overnights. I agreed, and have since followed his brand new 1.5 hour rule.

As for P's wife - it's not that I have no concern for her feelings, it's just that she's not concerned. She easily and quickly shed all the trappings of monogamy and has openly accepted the concept of open marriage - right now my husband is her only playmate, but she knows she can entertain others if they come along, and she's fine with P doing the same.

Anyway, that's the fill in for the "fast forward to present day" in my husband's first post. He has "offered" to get his fix (of watching/same room) by going back to our other playmates in the meantime, and then when we get together with the main couple, he'll just let us all have alone time like we have been. But I wonder if it's going to make him "hate" it any less, just to know he's getting some payoff elsewhere...

A work in progress, you could say!