Poly vs swinging

[javelin]

I am certian I will contribute nothing new here, but what the hell. I don't recall any mention of poly when I first looked at these forums. I stumbled on Polyamory and discovered that that is what I was looking for, not swinging. We did Hedo, Desire, and a couple swingers clubs, but the casual nature of it let us empty. We wanted to make some real friends who we could also have some sexy fun with. People who would be more than just a passing character in our lifes. I found most people just don't give a fuck to make friends. In the real world they are too busy to bother with emails or getting to know someone. We've basically given up on even trying. The reward was not worth the effort. We made what we thought was a great connection, 4 people who really seemed to get along. The sexy chemistry was there as was the friendship. It was really nice. Then they got married, pregnant and moved to another state. Now they are too busy to keep up the relationship. So why is everyone too busy these days? Why does no one value new friendships? I guess everyones life is just so fullfilled and complete that there is no room for more. Oh well.

[BiloxiCouple]

We value friendships, we just value our family more. I enjoyed the evening I had last night more than going out to the club which is what I did. I spent the evening going to the movies with my daughter.

We're not "busy" 100% of the time. But our time is our time and we can do what we want with it. In different parts of your life different things are priority. We had several good years of swinging. Hopefully that will come back soon. I could give you the reasons we don't go out all the time or have friends running thru our house, but that would take too long and is not that important to us.

If our personalities were made for a poly relationship then we would probably be looking or have one. It's just not us.

Originally Posted by javelin

Then they got married, pregnant and moved to another state. Now they are too busy to keep up the relationship.

A great example of why it is hard to keep up a friendship.

I can count the number of real "friends" on one hand that I've had in my life. I don't keep up with them either and still know where a couple of them are at. One of my boys is named after one of them. It's just life for some of us to be this way.

And what have you done to try and keep up the friendships? Seems like a valid question.

[javelin]

And what have you done to try and keep up the friendships? Seems like a valid question.

I try to keep in touch via emails. I invite people to do things like a trip to Hedo or Vegas or Fantasy Fest. Mainly I just try to be friends and get to know people better.

[rpu3]

Originally Posted by javelin

I don't recall any mention of poly when I first looked at these forums.

The poly forum is relatively new.

I stumbled on Polyamory and discovered that that is what I was looking for, not swinging. We did Hedo, Desire, and a couple swingers clubs, but the casual nature of it let us empty. We wanted to make some real friends who we could also have some sexy fun with. People who would be more than just a passing character in our lifes.

So, are you looking for friends or love or both?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but are you actually looking for polyamory - love?

I found most people just don't give a fuck to make friends. In the real world they are too busy to bother with emails or getting to know someone.

Some swingers do not want friendship - they are looking for casual sex. Some swingers don't mind making casual or close friends. Some might very well move into polyamory with their swinging. Some were always polyamorous, but not swingers. Some may have thought they'd only stick with straight casual swinging, but found value in expanding their horizons a bit.

Some people, swingers or vanilla, don't like e-mail. Maybe there's an imbalance as to how much one e-mails. I love e-mail, and like using it as an update tool to save time when it's time for a phone call or face-to-face meeting, but I'd be crazy to expect everyone to answer everything I send. I hate the phone, but with people I like, I can burn up an hour in nothing flat - and if I did that all the time, other things will suffer. Priorities... I do the best I can and would hope others would understand that and I try to offer the same courtesy in return.

We've basically given up on even trying. The reward was not worth the effort.

Isn't it more of a matter that one will have to work to find what they are looking for out of their alternative sex life? I've never found anything on this earth tremendously easy. Most of what I want or expect is a matter of working for it, or having to be patient. Giving up has rarely worked.

We made what we thought was a great connection, 4 people who really seemed to get along. The sexy chemistry was there as was the friendship. It was really nice. Then they got married, pregnant and moved to another state. Now they are too busy to keep up the relationship.

I can imagine they are too busy to keep up with the relationship the way it used to be. Their life isn't the way it used to be. Priorities shift. You can adjust and be happy for them and be happy with what they can provide as friends, or you can move on.

So why is everyone too busy these days?

I think all of us have to make a living, maintain a household, maintain our family and friend relations. The biggest issue in life to me is time - there isn't enough time to do everything I want to do and with everyone I want to do it with. People have to prioritize. Some relationships may not end up at the top of the list when you have to work and take care of your primary relationship and your family.

Why does no one value new friendships?

Perhaps some do not value new friendships.

More likely, people do not have the same value system you are operating from.

I guess everyones life is just so fullfilled and complete that there is no room for more. Oh well.

Again - time and priority and desire to add more and a decision as to what depth that relationship will be. I'd love to have unlimited time and be able to make unlimited friendships or connections with people. But I don't. My spouse doesn't. We, and our friends vanilla or otherwise, have jobs, families, obligations, other relationships that need care and feeding.

I only take on what I can handle at any given time. In my current friendships, vanilla or otherwise, I may not see people as much as I may like to or they may like to, but we all do the best we can given our other obligations and I end up really appreciating the time we do manage to spend together. They are valued, despite the time available and number of e-mails exchanged. If someone can't relate or is upset as to how one prioritizes their time, then maybe it isn't the friendship for them.

The right connection might be out there for you that will give you all that you seek. But it does take effort and a better attitude and appreciation for what one CAN offer in a relationship. Relationships of any type just don't fall into one's lap and it isn't a passive process.

[javelin]

Very nice and thoughtful reply from you rpu3. I think one problem is that we seldom meet people we can spend time with due to the distance apart. If they can't keep the relationship up with emails or phone calls there is little chance of spending any time together. Personally, I think keep themselves busy so they have excuses for not doing stuff. I know people who are busy as hell, but they do stuff that just creates more work for themselves with little reward. I guess I am a people person, and put alot of time into people, which of course is seldom returned. I can't say never, cause it has happened. You'd think when you meet someone at say Hedo, you already have a lot in common, a shared interest. When the real world comes back, I think people turn back into everyday people and those cool new friends they met on vacation loose relevance in the real world.

In response to "So, are you looking for friends or love or both?" I'd say both, but it is hard to get to either when people are too busy to get to know you.

[WesternSwing]

I think there are a number of reasons, but rpu2 hit on the big ones:

• Many swingers feel threatened by anything past casual sex, and
• People have lives outside of swinging

I think even those with the best intentions of keeping in touch simply can't because real life is so busy. We find it hard to keep in touch with friends because both of us work and we have three kids and all the stuff that comes with them. Most of the time it's hard enough to find time for ourselves much less others. You'd think with all the ways to keep in touch these days it'd be easier, but it actually seems all the avenues of communication just eat-up more of our time with non-essential stuff. I think I use text messaging with friends more than anything because I can do it quickly and anywhere.

We've found also, that many swingers feel threatened by any kind of relationship forming, and even many of the "friends first" ones seem to be "We'll go on several dates and become friends, at least until we fuck you than we'll go find another couple to be 'friends first' with." I can't count the number of times we've had a real connection with couples and we see each other for months than it just sort of dissipates away and the next thing you know they are exclusive with another couple. Kind of serial-committed-swinging.

We had a party at our house a few months ago and in the course of discussion the topic turned toward polyamory and quasi-poly relationships and forming some kind of bond sometimes with someone else, and I was not only surprised, but actually shocked at the way some couples (or at least one of the members of the couple) were taken aback by our thoughts on it. A few of them freaked-out and stopped short of calling us "marriage wreckers" and loudly professed that "No way would we ever allow any relationship to develop with anyone else." Now I know that everyone has their comfort zone, and man simply don't want anything past "friends with benefits" or just fuck-buddies, but their reaction was a big red flag for us regarding ever playing with them in any fashion. The jealousy and the drama just began to show through and we hadn't even done anything yet.

We've discovered though that there is a large percentage of swingers who are here for the "friends with benefits", which is good for us, too. Casual sex is good, friends you can have casual sex with on occasion is even better. Remember, friends who care, share.

Mr. WS

[cocpl2007]

Nice post, javeln; thoughtful replies too.

We are presently in the same dilemma. We were the ones who disappeared. An opportunity came along to head off to the Caribbean for a few years, which we leapt at. Our friends were back on the mainland, and were unable to make the trek over, and we didn’t come back for quite some time, so the relationship dissolved. We did make it back on two occasions, only one of which was at time when we could get together, again. Just too much time, and too many miles. Clearly our fault. We moved. Life happened.

Now that we have returned, they have moved on. Very understandable. We are learning just how unique our friendship with them was within the swinging community. Swingers/Couples who are looking for what you are looking for javeln seem to us to be rare. Part of the rarity is the fact that many have probably already found the compatible couple and have removed themselves from any of the sites where we go looking for friendships. So it is just those of us who have not yet found that “perfect” compatible couple or just happen to be between couples. Like anything rare, it is very, very hard to find. We guess that is what make it rare.

If it were easy, would you really appreciate it as much?

[javelin]

I'd like to touch on the "lifes too busy" comments. Maybe this is too far off topic, mods can feel free to delete if they want, but I find many seem to keep themselves busy, even when it obviously is to the detrement of the family. I wonder how many divorces could have been avoided if there was one less soccer game, one less gym class, one less baseball game and more family/friends time. My wife and I are making a concious decision to make our life so busy we do not have time for family or EACH OTHER. Our kids are allowed one outside activity, the rest of time is for family outtings, or for adult outtings. Friends are vital to keeping your spirits up when "life" gets you bogged down.

When I get drunk I get amorous, and in those situations it would be nice to be with someone you could just sit next to, maybe put arm around, and not have to worry if the husband is going to chew her ear off later for flirting with you.

[TheDeal]

Ah ha, there you have it. I believe there is a great majority of swingers out there that are looking for steady, close friends to explore a wilder sexual side. A type of relationship where you trust and like the others to the point of complete comfort. Having it be exclusive and emotional does tip it into the poly world, but really it is more exclusive swinging than true all out poly.

We found just such a relationship with our best friends (pre-swinging). It's been very difficult however, finding a balance or the line between friendship and love. It's also difficult to have everyone at the same level. Two or three send e-mails, communicate, one does not, or one or more is really into separate play than some others. This is probably why swingers prefer nothing past sex, but hey, life is drama. Going through difficult things with others is one way to grow understanding of oneself.

G

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by javelin

I'd like to touch on the "lifes too busy" comments. Maybe this is too far off topic, mods can feel free to delete if they want, but I find many seem to keep themselves busy, even when it obviously is to the detrement of the family.

I think some do keep themselves busy so that they don't have to spend time with their significant other, who they don't like much anymore anyway. These folks are headed to divorce court sooner or later anyway, soccer or baseball game aside.

I think still others over-busy themselves because being that über-parent is the thing to do for any number of possible reasons - peer pressure, being better than their parents, etc.

Still others it just what happens when you have kids and they want to play soccer and baseball and football and swim, etc. You do what you can to help them do what they want to do, sacrificing yourself in the process.

But you are right, how many marriages could be saved by just one less kid's activity and more energy being put into the core family unit and especially mom and dad time.

Mr. WS

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by javelin

You'd think when you meet someone at say Hedo, you already have a lot in common, a shared interest. When the real world comes back, I think people turn back into everyday people and those cool new friends they met on vacation loose relevance in the real world.

I think you are expecting way too much from people you meet at Hedo - or any other "lifestyle" getaway. A vacation IS a break from everyday life and people return to their regular life and are happy to do so. Hedo (or any other vacation) is a diversion, that's all. I think returning home to one's everyday life is what makes the trip all the more fun, it's the contrast, the something different for a while. You are setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect people to place you into their everyday life once they return home. Their lives are filled with what they choose to put into it, and adding more (such as a time-consuming relationship with swingers) isn't likely to be what most couples (especially parents) want to fill it with.

I find many seem to keep themselves busy, even when it obviously is to the detrement of the family.

From your posts, I get the feeling that you think you know what is best for others, based on what you feel is best for you. Personally, if I sensed that from a couple we met, I'd be put off by that attitude. These couples may be thinking: If my husband and I want to place our children first, we'll do so, and who are you to say my hubby and I don't put in plenty of time for ourselves? We don't need other adults/swingers around to keep us happy. We find private time to enjoy each other.

The swingers you have met may feel this way. Giving their time to a swinger couple who is demanding more of them than they want to give is probably why they back off.

LM

[tittietwister]

Interestingly, we recently met a couple where the man had been in the lifestyle for 30 years. He said real friendships that extended to play was the norm "in the old days" when the pace of life was slower and less demands were made or expected in daily lives.

Last night we met a couple from Spokane Washington who made similar statements contrasting the lifestyle in and outside large metro areas so perhaps the poly minded folks need to look for less densely populated areas.

I remember growing up in a small town where your parent's friends also acted as parents-by-proxy when they saw you misbehaving. They could do that because of the bond of friendship they had with your parents and you didn't challenge it. If those parent friends were also swingers I'm sure they would have had the kind of relationship we and Javelin aspire to.

We don't have the answers but are growing tired of the coldness, shallowness and bedpost-notching character of the lifestyle in our immediate area which is also reflected in social relationships in general in this area. We look forward to when we can do some traveling and do our own comparison of the lifestyle in other parts the country.

[TheDeal]

I think the pace of life is definitely a reason for people not "having the time" to get past a sexual acquaintance type of relationship. After my wife and I bought our first house, we met a couple that was our age, and they lived directly across the street. We all became very good friends. Four years later, we were all ready for larger houses and ended up moving about 5 miles from each other. I know it's only a few miles, but when you consider the ease of walking out your door and across the street for a chat and some beer... They had another child and we didn't see them very often for almost two years. Of course, when we finally did start hanging out again, we all became lovers. go figure. Still wished we lived across the street! REALLY!

I say that because once you move into a deeper more romantic type relationship; e-mail, phone and chat are not always the best ways to resolve issues that arise. You need face to face and that is not always possible, even if it's only five miles to the others home. Typically, when you get to a certain level of a relationship, you are at their home or yours, or you have even moved in with them. Our issues would have been resolved easier and quicker had we just lived next door. Just some things to consider if ya really want to go poly.

G

[javelin]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

From your posts, I get the feeling that you think you know what is best for others, based on what you feel is best for you. LM

If it works for you fine, but I see alot of unhappy families who seem to act like the can't control their own lives. I guess I digressed from the subject too much sorry.

Also, I don't expect to be thrust into peoples lives on a daily basis, but would like to be given a chance to make friends. Like I said, we aren't into the casual nature of casual swinging. I used to defend the term swinging, even apply it to ourselves, but that was early on. Once I saw the conquest attitude at work, well, that pretty much ended it for me. Thus, the appeal of polyamory. Thus the too busy comment, it is going to be hard to get to know anyone well enough to develop a poly relationship without ever getting the chance to get to know them.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by TheDeal

I think the pace of life is definitely a reason for people not "having the time" to get past a sexual acquaintance type of relationship. After my wife and I bought our first house, we met a couple that was our age, and they lived directly across the street. We all became very good friends. Four years later, we were all ready for larger houses and ended up moving about 5 miles from each other. I know it's only a few miles, but when you consider the ease of walking out your door and across the street for a chat and some beer... They had another child and we didn't see them very often for almost two years. Of course, when we finally did start hanging out again, we all became lovers. go figure. Still wished we lived across the street! REALLY!

I say that because once you move into a deeper more romantic type relationship; e-mail, phone and chat are not always the best ways to resolve issues that arise. You need face to face and that is not always possible, even if it's only five miles to the others home. Typically, when you get to a certain level of a relationship, you are at their home or yours, or you have even moved in with them. Our issues would have been resolved easier and quicker had we just lived next door. Just some things to consider if ya really want to go poly.

G

This is one of the big theories behind human tribal behavior, the idea that humans are pack animals and that they need to develop close, caring relationships with others, and the idea that by doing so there was a higher chance of survival for everyone because there was that emotional bond between people in the tribe that made the look out for each other and each other's offspring. The theory is that sex also played a big part in developing this closeness and intimacy between tribe members. Hence, prehistoric polyamory.

Mr. WS