Wife's boyfriend's thoughts about my accepting them

[rdy46227]

My wife and I have been together for about ten years, and there was a couple of years during this time when I was strongly involved with a secondary. She had a casual secondary (not the current BF) a few years back lasting several months.

I've know her current BF almost as long as she has (6 years). He and I get along well together, and since we first met, I've gone drinking with him off and on as part of a Friday after-work group.

All that time they have been good friends, often seeing each other in professional settings as well as socializing. 4 or 5 times they drew close and pulled back, "chickening out", until last fall when things really blossomed between them. He's had a few affairs but this is the first time he's played by the poly rules (his spouse knows and has even met me).

Our official policy is "you only have to tell the other what they need to know", but with this BF she's been giving me quite a lot of detail, especially information about him and his life situation. She also tells him a lot about us. From our personal contact as well as the indirect communication, I'd say he and I know a lot about each other.

Now he and she frequently get together on their own, and the three of us also do informal dates together (theater, museum, ball game, drinks), after which they go off together.

Often after we have a 3-way date, he asks her how I'm dealing with her having a BF, why I'm not upset/possessive/concerned -- in short, where is my head at over their affair. Sometimes it sounds like he can't understand my encouraging/enabling them, or like he's waiting for me to do something dramatic, or is trying to tease out some defect in the primary relationship.

Six years back he and she were off together at a conference, and she told him how I gave her freedom to choose to be with him. At first he may have considered it just a part of the dance between them. But in the following weeks back home we got to know each well as friends, and he saw we were real.

I even had a one-on-one sit-down conversation with him a few months ago, trying hard to put him at ease about how I feel towards them. I've explained how I grew into poly decades ago. I used illustrations from my history to tell why and how I've practiced it. He knows my (new age-ish) philosophy, and how it's absent customary religious and societal moralities. Intellectually, he seems on board.

But after size years of knowing us, something still must be bugging him.

I realize you all aren't mind readers, but any ideas why he might keep returning to the question of my accepting them having a secondary relationship?

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by rdy46227

But after size years of knowing us, something still must be bugging him.

I realize you all aren't mind readers, but any ideas why he might keep returning to the question of my accepting them having a secondary relationship?

So, his wife is not participating in any type of relationship outside of their marriage? Is she not open to that?

On the flip side...you mention that even after 6 years he basically keeps questioning 'why you allow this to happen'. Maybe that's because he can't fathom giving his wife the same freedom that he has, and he can't quite wrap his mind around why you can?

Honestly, I would just ask him why he keeps expecting the other shoe to fall (ie: drama). Although, since he and your wife are pretty chatty and tend to share life details...maybe she could turn the question on him after the next time the three of you get together?

[NumbskullsX2]

Originally Posted by rdy46227

My wife and I have been together for about ten years, and there was a couple of years during this time when I was strongly involved with a secondary. She had a casual secondary (not the current BF) a few years back lasting several months.

I've know her current BF almost as long as she has (6 years). He and I get along well together, and since we first met, I've gone drinking with him off and on as part of a Friday after-work group.

All that time they have been good friends, often seeing each other in professional settings as well as socializing. 4 or 5 times they drew close and pulled back, "chickening out", until last fall when things really blossomed between them. He's had a few affairs but this is the first time he's played by the poly rules (his spouse knows and has even met me).

Our official policy is "you only have to tell the other what they need to know", but with this BF she's been giving me quite a lot of detail, especially information about him and his life situation. She also tells him a lot about us. From our personal contact as well as the indirect communication, I'd say he and I know a lot about each other.

Now he and she frequently get together on their own, and the three of us also do informal dates together (theater, museum, ball game, drinks), after which they go off together.

Often after we have a 3-way date, he asks her how I'm dealing with her having a BF, why I'm not upset/possessive/concerned -- in short, where is my head at over their affair. Sometimes it sounds like he can't understand my encouraging/enabling them, or like he's waiting for me to do something dramatic, or is trying to tease out some defect in the primary relationship.

Six years back he and she were off together at a conference, and she told him how I gave her freedom to choose to be with him. At first he may have considered it just a part of the dance between them. But in the following weeks back home we got to know each well as friends, and he saw we were real.

I even had a one-on-one sit-down conversation with him a few months ago, trying hard to put him at ease about how I feel towards them. I've explained how I grew into poly decades ago. I used illustrations from my history to tell why and how I've practiced it. He knows my (new age-ish) philosophy, and how it's absent customary religious and societal moralities. Intellectually, he seems on board.

But after size years of knowing us, something still must be bugging him.

I realize you all aren't mind readers, but any ideas why he might keep returning to the question of my accepting them having a secondary relationship?

You scare him. He thinks you're both nuckin' futz, but he's screwing her and not you, so he's willing to put up with some of her lunacy. But not yours.

He probably thinks you're going to come breaking through the door some night in a ski-mask with a chain-saw revving full speed, shouting, AH-HA! I CAUGHT YOU!

[Edison Carter]

Susan here-- The bottom line is this, you cannot fix stupid and this guy's an idiot wondering where his village is. Sometimes a person can have everything they want and still asks,"What gives?"

[EggPlantKing]

I agree with SexCupid. he can't understand your Non-Male tendencies toward jealousy and need to dominate. Our culture puts so much demand on owning things he can't get passed you not owning her. Put yourself in his shoes. He gets to have your wife and you do nothing completely ridiculous in the standard sociological American view. He wouldn't do it (Although if his wife is that laid back about it he might be doing it and not know.) I say wait till there in the hotel room and in the middle of bumping pelvises and walk in on them. Of course set it up with your Wife first. Then maybe he will get the Idea. On the plus side speaking from experience it can lead to really awesome sex.

[rdy46227]

Interesting responses....

FWIW, BF's wife has become very much a stay at home person, pretty introverted. Understanding BF's desire to be with people, she's always given him reign to stay out late (after work crowd getting home at 3AM) or be gone many hours on the weekend going places (including work), visiting friends, etc.

BF and his wife are basically friends with benefits. She's aware of some of his past affairs, certainly not all. Her attitude toward BF and my spouse is "you've told me, now don't mention it again". BF said sex life with BF's wife is unchanged (very infrequent, but good when it happens).

While BF's wife may have had an affair many years ago, BF says that she says, she has very little interest in sex, no real need for additional friends or companionship, and absolutely no interest in a lover.

SO & I theorize BF's wife is most interested in keeping her current financial/logistical situation -- she's been through it before, and while she prefers he not be sleeping with another, she has decided (again) not to let it upset things between them.

[prettylady]

If I ever become that woman, someone shoot me.
To me, that does not sound like much of a life at all. Without LIFE what good is finacial security.
I would rather be tight on money and have a wonderfully full life then be stable with a life that is not far from death.
sorry, but that seems more like depression to me than a general acceptance of the situation.
But I am no doctor
Your friend,
Prettylady

[BiloxiCouple]

If I interperted right, ya'll haven't talked directly to the wife of the BF?

If this is true he could be saying anything he wanted? And then getting what he wanted? Yep, you have known him for six years. So ya'll know him better than us.

Affairs = Cheating Just a nice way to put it.

[prettylady]

Originally Posted by BiloxiCouple

Affairs = Cheating Just a nice way to put it.

It kinda does take a bit of the scandle out of it. Affair almost seems like a romatic meeting in Paris rather then what it really is.
Funny, I didn't really react to the term affair the way I do with cheating.
Your friend,
Prettylady

[LikeMinds321]

rdy46227 ~

I've read this thread at least a half dozen times and I keep coming up with questions. So if you feel like answering them, here you go.

Do you and your wife swing?

If not, is the BF the only person who is presently part of your poly sex life?

Originally Posted by rdy46227

He's had a few affairs but this is the first time he's played by the poly rules (his spouse knows and has even met me).

What are the "poly rules" that the three of you have agreed to?

Often after we have a 3-way date, he asks her how I'm dealing with her having a BF, why I'm not upset/possessive/concerned -- in short, where is my head at over their affair. Sometimes it sounds like he can't understand my encouraging/enabling them, or like he's waiting for me to do something dramatic, or is trying to tease out some defect in the primary relationship...

But after [six] years of knowing us, something still must be bugging him.

I realize you all aren't mind readers, but any ideas why he might keep returning to the question of my accepting them having a secondary relationship?

From what you've described, this seems more of a non-monogamous marriage for you and your wife. We aren't poly, but from what I've read on the Board from poly couples they usually mention the commitment, devotion, affection - and yes, love - among all person(s) in their poly relationship.

You've not hinted at any of this in your triad.

To me, it would seem your relationship with the BF is founded on hope for a poly relationship to develop. But I don't think he has a clue about what poly means, nor will he be able to grasp it. In his mind, he's still having "affairs" and your wife is his present affair, nothing more.

What may be bugging him is that after 6 months of sex with your wife, he is wanting more than just your wife, i.e., affairs with other women, but is torn about continuing with his past pattern of finding sex when he needs it. Or maybe he feels that you are trying to "marry" him. Your wife's sexual relationship with him is still very new - 6 months - and he may move on in due time because he doesn't want to be bound by another relationship...he's already got his wife.

LM

[sweet_tna]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

rdy46227 ~
To me, it would seem your relationship with the BF is founded on hope for a poly relationship to develop. But I don't think he has a clue about what poly means, nor will he be able to grasp it. In his mind, he's still having "affairs" and your wife is his present affair, nothing more.

What may be bugging him is that after 6 months of sex with your wife, he is wanting more than just your wife, i.e., affairs with other women, but is torn about continuing with his past pattern of finding sex when he needs it. Or maybe he feels that you are trying to "marry" him. Your wife's sexual relationship with him is still very new - 6 months - and he may move on in due time because he doesn't want to be bound by another relationship...he's already got his wife.

LM

That's what I was getting out of this too, but didn't know how to articulate it.

Best of luck to ya'll . . .

=)

[rdy46227]

We're not true swingers, in the sense of casual sex between other couples of like mind, nor in the sense of clubbing or house partying, etc.

All the relationships either SO or I have been/are part of are based on emotional intimacy over an extended period of time. There appears to be love, affection, respect, and commitment in all of them. I left this unstated, assuming it implicit in poly. We operate in the subset of swinging/poly/"open" marriages where contacts have an emotional connection (bonding) over an extended period.

The status for the last few months is: SO and I are married and the primary relationship. SO and BF are a secondary relationship. It is the only current secondary for SO or I. It is a "V" and not, nor is it expected to be, a triad. This is clear to, and has been expressly stated by, all parties.

SO's rules for their relationship require that BF's wife be aware they are together and that BF will put his home situation first, e.g. break off if his spouse requests him. If you want to discuss our full rule set in general, we can find/start a different thread.

We three do the shared activities as friends, because we are friends, and have been doing such since we met. It's only since SO and BF decided they wanted more private time together that I started giving them another opportunity by leaving early. BF and SO have spent the night together twice; I believe part of his agreement with his wife is that he will be home well before dawn.

One thing extending the courtship between SO and BF over the 5 odd years is their dealing with love for each other. They acknowledged "clicking" at the beginning, and have been emotionally bonded for years. They've cried on each other's shoulders, exchanged deepest confidences, and made themselves vulnerable to each other. The both said that in another "life", they could be married.

Their problem has been going "all the way". BF's been dealing with his home situation all the time we've known him, trying to position himself to leave, then deciding not yet, sometimes believing his spouse and he will reestablish a good married relationship, sometimes believing that he needs to move across the country without her.

The couple of times before when either SO or BF considered becoming lovers, one issue or another made them decide to not take the final step. Last fall, things fell into place and they went for it.

BF's prior method of getting what he needs outside his marriage was by the traditional (secret) affairs, and SO's instance of full disclosure makes this is the first relationship where BF was upfront with his spouse.

This way is new for him; there is no compersion of the part of his spouse, and I suppose he may fall back into his old mindset from time to time.

Hope that answers your questions. Maybe I've answered my original question???

[BiloxiCouple]

Originally Posted by BiloxiCouple

If I interperted right, ya'll haven't talked directly to the wife of the BF?

If this is true he could be saying anything he wanted? And then getting what he wanted? Yep, you have known him for six years. So ya'll know him better than us.

But, again I ask, you said you have talked to BF's wife. Did you physically sit down and talk with her about the subject at hand? My concern is how she fits in the situation or doesn't fit into it. If she has looked you in the eye and said he can be in a poly with your wife, then cooooool.

The BF history of cheating, problems at home, saying he wants to leave, but can't....? It sounds like an old tap dance I have heard before.

I wish ya'll luck.

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by rdy46227

This way is new for him; there is no compersion of the part of his spouse, and I suppose he may fall back into his old mindset from time to time.

Thank you for replying.

I should have been specific when asking about your poly rules, because here's what I want to know:

Has an agreement been made that neither your wife nor the BF will have sex with other people?

I'm guessing so since you don't swing and all of your relationships have been based on emotional intimacy over an extended period of time. I think the BF would have a difficult time holding to this rule.

I had to look up the word "compersion."

Compersion is a term used by practitioners of polyamory or swingers to describe the experience of taking pleasure when one's partner is with another person.

So, if I understand you, the BF's wife takes no pleasure in her husband's relationship with your wife.

SO's rules for their relationship require that BF's wife be aware they are together and that BF will put his home situation first, e.g. break off if his spouse requests him...I believe part of his agreement with his wife is that he will be home well before dawn...

BF's been dealing with his home situation all the time we've known him, trying to position himself to leave, then deciding not yet...

BF's prior method of getting what he needs outside his marriage was by the traditional (secret) affairs, and SO's instance of full disclosure makes this is the first relationship where BF was upfront with his spouse.

Did you mean "insistance" of full disclosure? You can insist, but you don't know what the BF is telling his wife.

Stacking up all you've said, I think your poly rules are only providing you with false justification for the 'V'; it's a way to make you feel better about this whole "affair." It really boils down to the three of you cheating on the BF's wife.


If I was the BF, here's what would be going through my head:

I have made cheating a pattern in my marriage. I'm not as happy and fulfilled as I would like to be, neither is my wife. We are just FWB who share the same house (raise our kids?) and have agreed to tolerate a sad situation. I have found a woman who I care about and love to fuck and wonder if she wasn't married if I would leave my wife and marry her...but she already has a husband she loves and because the guy is okay with me having sex with her, how can I hate him? He's a nice guy. But what do I want for myself? If I ever get divorced I'd like to find a woman I can love completely, enjoy sex with and have her love me in the same way. I don't think I could ever share her with anyone else and I would hope I'd never feel the need to ever have affairs again. What the hell am I doing having an affair with a woman I will never have to myself? And it's not just with her, in a strange way it's with her husband too - I just don't get this poly stuff. This is bugging me like crazy and something's got to change.

LM

[rdy46227]

Thanks again, kind people. You're asking good questions which have generated lots of thinking.

Was it Regan who said "Trust, but verify"?

First, I agree that there is some possibility that BF is hiding from his wife, i.e. making this a cheating situation.

Second, there's an almost but not quite insignificant possibility that SO is "selectively editing" what she tells us to avoid any possible discord between any or all of us.

While we all trust each other (and have to trust for things to work), I shall make my path cross that of BF's wife's and see what message she has been receiving from BF.

SO and BF had the discussion about SDT, testing, condoms, fidelity, etc. at the beginning, and we agreed to a closed set. BF spoke for his wife, quoting her as saying that she has no interest in sex with anyone, him included. We implicitly include BF's wife in the set, expecting that if she has sexual contact with anyone it will only be BF. Exit strategy was also discussed, so if BF does want to (honorably) roam then we can break off beforehand.

Again, this all comes down to how well you know a person (and if they haven't changed) and are willing to trust.

SO had an afternoon date with BF today and made inquires. According to BF, he's had no contact sexual contact with his wife for 6 months, which is probably when he decided to try and take up with SO.

BF says the biggest payoff is the intimacy of emotional and physical contact or affection (which doesn't mean sex), and that he's happy, appreciative and content with relationship so far.

(SO also introduced the word "compersion" and promised to send him some articles from the net. Remember, please, this is all new to him. Their goal thus far has been the relationship, not formal polyamory education.)

My gut feel is that while having this great need met at the present doesn't mean BF won't roam (and yes, there's the history), the agreement seems solid for the moderate future.

Time will tell; we can learn something from everything.