Washington Post Article

[rpu3]

Pairs with Spares
For Polyamorists With a Whole Lotta Love, Three, or More, Is Never a Crowd


Well, in setting my Lexis search up for swinger-related legislation and news articles, I get other forms of alternative in my mail box. Thought it might be of interest to some.

Thought: Maybe you can have it all. You just can't get it all from the same person.

It's the thought that illustrates a paradox in polyamory: Its practitioners have astonishing optimism for humans' endless capacity to love, to share, to forgive, to grow, to explore. But that optimism seems rooted in a cynical belief that the monogamous are stuck in a myth, one that leads to cheating, unhappiness or divorce court. They believe, as do some evolutionary biologists, that most humans do not have endless capacity to be faithful to just one person.

There's a vague aura of entitlement to polyamory. The concept that one deserves complete romantic fulfillment seems a decidedly Me Generation concept.

[ncmd_couple]

A surprisingly well written article.

[havefuninsun]

Interesting!

So, I wonder if we threw this question out to the general vanilla public which would be most scorned: Couples who swing, or couples who practice polygamy?

Which would be most scandalous?

[gatorvol64]

Originally Posted by havefuninsun

Interesting!

So, I wonder if we threw this question out to the general vanilla public which would be most scorned: Couples who swing, or couples who practice polygamy?

Which would be most scandalous?

Couples who practice polyamory. Well, that's my opinion anyway.

Ok, with monogamous couples one or the other often cheats. What is said when this comes to light and hits the streets? Well, it's gossip for sure but...have you heard many truly get indignant about it? It's wrong. However, it is accepted.

Next, the swinging couple. Hmmm. What happens when this hits the same streets? OMG, did you hear about _______? Still gossip of course. And stills its wrong. The gossip does move more into a judgmental phase. Something must be wrong in that relationship if they are looking to improve it by having sex with others. How could they share their spouse with someone else for sex? Confusing to some but still, we are just talking about sex here. Most people have something about their sex life that they'd prefer not to be public knowledge.

So, that brings me to the polyamorous couple. When this hits the streets as the other two examples did it'll get a decidedly more judgemental reaponse. You totally share your partner with someone else? Physically? Emotionally? Are they crazy? Literally. They really need some therapy for this. It's my firm opinion that, while cheating and swinging aren't considered as "right", they are more understandable in people's minds. I mean, sex is all it is. Who hasn't gotten "caught up in the moment" at least one time? But what is wrong with you that you don't want to be the only one your partner loves? How can you say you love your spouse and still let your spouse love someone else besides you? I think some people equate jealousy with love. If you aren't jealous then you can't possibly love me. Jealousy is a very real thing in the polyamory world I'll have to say. The difference is...here it is dealt with in a constructive manner most of the time. It usually signals another issue that needs work and once it is handled the jealousy can disappear. A polyamory relationship is work...just as a monogamous one is. Just the partners involved think even further out side the box.

I've attempted to give you my reasoning behind my beginning statement that a polyamorist couple would be scorned more than a swinging couple. Finding either so offensive as to leave some practitioners of one or the other afraid of "coming out of the closet" is disturbing. Many reasons can be given for how each is wrong but I think the reason most aren't even willing to see the other side of the coin is fear. Plain and simple.

Vol

[WesternSwing]

Vol, I can see your degrees of "wrong" in Joe and Mable Public's perception, but in my experience any deviancy from Joe and Mable's perception of "normal" is looked upon with similar levels of disgust. One of the things I hear over and over is the focus on the sex. That is all they seem to hear. "You let your spouse have sex with others?!" Regardless if it is swinging or polyamory. Most Joe and Mables out there don't even know the difference or have even heard the term polyamory. To them it's all just "cheating with permission", which like you pointed-out, seems to be less acceptable than cheating without permission.

Case in point. Here's some snippets from an article quoting the Washington Post article and rebutting it:

As you have perhaps guessed, Hesse’s story was intellectually shallow. Beyond some glancing criticisms of polyamory, it failed to address the practice’s moral and theological aspects...

Hesse should have asked her subjects at least a few intellectually rigorous questions. Imagine a partner is sick or dying: Is it permissible to ditch that person for a partner who’s healthy?...

Since the sexual revolution began four decades ago, newspaper reporters have sought to normalize practices once deemed sinful and evil. Think of divorce, cohabitation, homosexuality...

Here's another one:

In what can only be described as a Valentine to immorality and provocative behavior, the Post ran a 2554-word feature on polyamory that describes a practice most readers - even the liberal fans of the Post - would find disturbing. Sometimes called "swinging" or "wife swapping," polyamory is the practice of openly having several sexual partners, regardless and sometimes in spite of, marital status.

The whole editorial is here, it's too much to quote: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kristen...ive-lifestyles

Unfortunately, this is mainstream society's view of anything but one man/one woman relationships. Even with 2554 words (why the hell did Fyfe count them?) she, and those that added comments to her column, still think it's nothing but "swinging and wifeswapping".

[gatorvol64]

WesternSwing, I can't argue with you at all.

One of my biggest issues with our quad is that others may view it as all about the sex. And that could be because I/we know it started that way for us. What I want people to see is that it is about the love first now. Sex is a big freaking deal! I'll not deny that. One of the "finer things in life" as I say. But I'd never get rid of Tech any more than I'd get rid of Gator if, for some unfathomable reason, we couldn't have "sex". The love part, especially the depth of it, hasn't been something I've found a way to get others to understand. It never really was important for me to find a way to make others understand swinging. That was just fun for us and who needs to approve of my fun? Well, truthfilly, no one needs to approve of who I love either. The fact that I love them tends to make me defensive of someone talking in a bad light about them. Therefore, I want it to be understood that they aren't "bad" people (non of us are) and why the hell can't you understand I can love more than more person?

So, did I just talk myself into changing my answer to they'd both be about the same on the scandalous meter? Either way, it won't be the first or last time I've been called a freak.

Vol

PS. None of this probably makes sense. Not a good night for me and therefore, I shouldn't have posted to anything at all.

[sexcupid]

Well, we are not poly. But when the OP posted the question of which would be met with more scorn...I thought for a second and also thought that it would be those that are poly. I think that most people can wrap their minds around cheaters and swingers...but can't quite manage to wrap around the concept of loving more than one romantic partner...or maybe they can for themselves, but not for their SO.

But I can also see WS's logic. Anything that violates from the norm is sensationalized.

[mick2150]

Post #3, brought up the concept of Polygamy ..... can we assume that was a typo? It really shouldn't be confused with polyamoury. They are quite different.

And, comments posted over the last few days on a number of polyrelated forums/groups, commented very positively on this article and specifically mentioned the research & time that the journalist spent trying to present a balanced view. This was a major Page Ranking job in a major media - Kudos to W. Post ..... all the way from Canada!

I did find it a bit disturbing as I read a few of the thoughts above .... the concept that the great big over-whelming vanilla crowd would rather be accepting of the cheating & lying crowd (sniggers - "Oh, it is done all the time!!") than swingers & polys, who may not walk exactly the same path, but are pretty clear that in relationships (& life in general??) there has to be a better way than to cheat, lie, & be dishonest.

.... And, for the record, there are so many 'flavours' of 'polyness', many of which do not include an element of physical sex - lots of intimacy probably, because there is a lot of love & emotion involved, but it may or may not include sexual activity.

M.

[SevenTech]

To tell the truth without mincing words... I could give two squirts of monkey pi$$ what mainstream society thinks of our relationship. The more you try to rationalize it the more they try to bring it down. When one of us in our quad is having a problem we all know that the other three will be there for us. how many marriages end because one or the other spouse wasn't "there" for the other one. what is it now 52% of all marriages end in divorce before the first seven years are up?

Screw the mainstream public and their close minded way of thinking.

[varangian]

Originally Posted by havefuninsun

Interesting!

So, I wonder if we threw this question out to the general vanilla public which would be most scorned: Couples who swing, or couples who practice polygamy?

Which would be most scandalous?

Swinging, without doubt. Polyamory has the sweet aura of romance and love, while swinging has the unmistakable aura of carnal lust, promiscuity, adultery - and you name it. Let´s face it - we are the promiscuous lot. V

[mick2150]

Well, better late than never ....

The biggest circulation daily newspaper in Canada, The Toronto Star, has today re-printed Monica Hesse' article in their Living section.

This seems to say that dear olde 'Toronto the good & conservative' is actually trying to ease itself, albeit slowly, out of the closet, now that we have arrived in the 21st century. Mainstream coverage of Poly - gee, who would have thought it?

So, along with being GBLT positive - big annual Gay Pride week - we are now also 'out' as being poly-positive and I guess alternative L/style-friendly.

Times they are a-moving ...... all for the better IMHO!

MF

[BiloxiCouple]

Originally Posted by havefuninsun

Interesting!

So, I wonder if we threw this question out to the general vanilla public which would be most scorned: Couples who swing, or couples who practice polygamy?

Which would be most scandalous?

Consider this has been going on for thousands of years you would think it would be more accepted.

I guess it boils down to the upper society doing what they want and the poor being told what they can and can't do.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by gatorvol64

WesternSwing, I can't argue with you at all.

One of my biggest issues with our quad is that others may view it as all about the sex.

I think many outside of alternative relationships do, and I personally feel it's because society puts so much emphasis on the reason behind marriage is sex. The whole "abstinence before marriage" that is pushed upon kids from the time they are born. So you have a bunch of horny kids confusing being horny with being "in love" and getting married to justify having sex. Sex = love in their mind. Sex becomes more important than love. So when someone has a relationship with someone else outside their marriage or primary relationship, it must always be about sex, right? Because that's the reason we hook-up, right? Sex is all they see.

Originally Posted by mick2150

I did find it a bit disturbing as I read a few of the thoughts above .... the concept that the great big over-whelming vanilla crowd would rather be accepting of the cheating & lying crowd (sniggers - "Oh, it is done all the time!!") than swingers & polys, who may not walk exactly the same path, but are pretty clear that in relationships (& life in general??) there has to be a better way than to cheat, lie, & be dishonest.

I think this was hit on by rdy46227 in another thread when they mentioned that most of the general population avoids multiple relationships, or at least avoids having multiple relationships collide. Statistics show that approximately 40% of married couples are having multiple relationships, they are just avoiding having them collide with each other. And although outwardly society frowns upon this, internally it accepts it. Rarely, if ever, does cheating develop the fury of the do-gooders the way consensual open relationships does.