Being shut out in our poly relationship

[cinderellixo]

We have been on this site for a while now just reading the postings. I now feel the need to post because I am in desperate need of advice.

We are in a poly relationship (quad) with another wonderful couple. We didn't expect things to go this way in the beginning but we all clicked so well and the relationship progressed with all of us. We all developed very strong feelings for each other and became exclusive. It was wonderful! We both have families and our families would do almost everything together. We were together almost every single weekend and sometimes during the week. We took family vacations together and have even been at family functions together.

The men decided to take it to another level and give us girls commitment rings. I was such a great token of the feelings that we had for each other. I couldn't imagine being any happier. Our lives were GREAT!!!!!

Well, then a bad situation happened due to poor communication on the couple that we are with. Due to their communication error something was done that was not suppose to be done and now she is very hurt. We feel very bad about the miscommuncation that they had and that she is hurt by it. So now, understandably, they have to work out this issue amongst themselves as a married couple. But as a result my husband and I have been shut out of their lives. We have been nothing but nice and supportive and told them that we understood that they as husband and wife had to work out this issue. But why shut us out? It is distroying us because we care (acutally love) them. And we were not at any fault in this matter. They deleted us as their friends on myspace and such. This hurts so bad! On top of the fact that she (the other couple that was hurt) admitted that since she's hurt that she's gonna make sure that we all hurt too. She is holding the cards on all four of us and she is enjoying the control. The fact that she admitted that she knows that she's being a vendicive bitch (in her words) and is choosing to act that way towards us really makes me wonder how much she really cares.

I just don't know what to do now. She said that she doesn't want any contact with us for a while. Well, we have been talking and texting multiple times a day for over a year. This seems to be extremes measures, especially since we didn't do anything wrong.

I know that their marriage is #1 importance and they have some issues to work on but the relationship that we have with them is very important as well. I don't know what to do? My heart is being crushed as each second goes by knowing that we all may not be able to be together anymore.

I am willing to give her/them time but how long? I can only put my feeling on "hold" for so long. If it's gonna be over then let us grieve the tremendous loss in our lives and move on. If it doesn't work out with them, there is no way that we could every be like this with anyone else. It is way too hard to put so much time and energy and love into another person to have it just thrown away.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Severely depressed couple in Michigan

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by cinderellixo

On top of the fact that she (the other couple that was hurt) admitted that since she's hurt that she's gonna make sure that we all hurt too. She is holding the cards on all four of us and she is enjoying the control. The fact that she admitted that she knows that she's being a vendicive bitch (in her words) and is choosing to act that way towards us really makes me wonder how much she really cares.

What it makes me wonder is why you are putting up with this treatment.

In your post you described yourselves as "destroyed" and as "severely depressed". Is it worth it, for somebody who is deliberately vindictive and controlling? Why are you giving her all the power in this situation? You are giving it away. You do have a say in all this. Think about that.

In healthy relationships, when there is a misunderstanding (some communication glitch), the people involved respect each other and hear all sides, even if they feel hurt about it. This isn't happening. If she really cared, and if she were a mature and loving person, she wouldn't be behaving the way that she is.

You said that any advice is appreciated, so.....my advice is to take this as the opportunity to get away from a cruel, manipulative and controlling person. Best wishes to you!

[cinderellixo]

I do appreciate all opinions on this matter. I do want to clear up that she is acting out of hurt. The reason we are putting up with it is because we know she is really hurt right now. We are trying to be there for her. And we would like to get back to what all four of us had which is the most wonderful thing I could have imagined. We do not want to be with anyone else. We made a commitment to be with them but I don't understand why we are being shut out like we are. I know her feelings are hurt but we are also a very important part of her/their lives and want to work thru it with them not be tossed to the side. I will respect her decision to take a break from us but it still hurts a lot not being able to be with the people that we care about and not being able to be with her while she is hurting. We will wait as long as she wants but the longer we wait the harder it's going to be to try to get back on track with them.

[Zoe&Wash]

Originally Posted by cinderellixo

We made a commitment to be with them but I don't understand why we are being shut out like we are. I know her feelings are hurt but we are also a very important part of her/their lives and want to work thru it with them not be tossed to the side.

Your commitment to them is highly commendable - and it sounds like what you had with them bordered on the fantastic (I know that Z would be verrrry comfortable as part of a triad or quartet), but you didn't make the decision to put an end to this - she did, and she seems to be handling it in a childish and vindictive way. This is not how rationale, mature people deal with relationship problems. This is the Lohan Method of solving personal problems.

Really, imagine that you all get over this and somehow get back to where you were - will you still be able to trust her as much as you did in the past? Probably not. Be grateful that you all had this experience and move on for both of your benefit.

W

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by Zoe&Wash

Really, imagine that you all get over this and somehow get back to where you were - will you still be able to trust her as much as you did in the past? Probably not. Be grateful that you all had this experience and move on for both of your benefit.

I wholly agree. Should you had the chance to realize beforehand that this woman was able to take this sort of vindicative measures, just for some communication problem, do you believe you could had a loving relationship the way it was?

When people does this sort of things, it reminds me of the suicidal act, someone who takes the ultimate and irrevokable measure to punish the others around him. This is vicious, it requires to elaborate a torough fantasy of the effect this act will have for those to punish, and the same seems to happen here.

But for this to happen, you just gave up your control in order to meet the behavior devised in such a fantasy, for example, to produce the outcome of you two being unwilling to pursue another poly relationship like this one. And this women seems to succeed.

As a last resort, you may text them a message telling you're over them, looking for a new polly relationship, and hoping them to be able to do the same.

I don't know if this could bring them back, nor if I would like them back if being in your shoes, but it'd be a great relief for you to know you spoiled her fantasized plans.

[Menage_a_Trois]

I have to ask because your original post is so vague as to what actually happened but after reading it numerous times I came back to the same questions. What was your involvement with the "miscommunication". My take is that the husband did something with you that was out of bounds for "them" and you were just caught in the cross fire, thus resulting in this situation. It would help me to clearly understand the culpability of all parties to really be able to say what i would do or wouldn't do in this situation.

Thanks.

The Other Mrs. Ménage

[Darkblue]

Sorry but i have to say its time to call it a day, if you do get back things will never be the same no matter what you do.

She is hurt by whatever has happened and if she is like this now she will never be totaly at ease with you again, you will have to get over this and move on,no matter how much it hurts.

You say she knows what she doing to you!!! now what does that tell you?? even if she is hurt,thats no excuse for doing that to you, so take a step back and try to take a look at things from an outsider point of view...

Steve

[cinderellixo]

Menage a Trios:

Yes there was a communication on their end about boundaries. Something happened that was not suppose to happen because he thought that he had the ok from her to do it but she never gave the ok. Between my husband and I, we talked about it and was ok with it. So three of us whole heartedly thought it was ok to do what we did. The problem being that she was not ok with it and it was not expressed well enough by her that it was not ok and he did not listen well enough to her to hear that it was not ok. With that being said my husband and I didn't do anything wrong in this matter but we are being shut out because of her hurt. The point that we are trying to make to them is that we would NEVER intentionally do ANYTHING to hurt any of them. And the intention behind the hurt should count for a lot. There was nothing done on purpose or recklessly. We thought that we had the ok and if there was any doubt of it we wouldn't have done anything. Nothing is worth losing what we had together but there is a good chance of loosing it now because of a miscommunication that she is hurt by.

I never should have put on the origanal post about her comments about knowing that she is hurting us. Now it seems that everyone is ganging up on her and I didn't want that. I have tried to explain that she is hurt and that she is lashing out because of her hurt. I guess I just wanted to explain the situation to an ouside source to see what they thought of the situation. I guess I got what I asked for but don't care for the mean comments about her in her time of hurt. When you care about somebody you put up with some lashing out sometimes. I just don't want this to last very long because it is unfair to us. We have put up with a lot so far because we care and don't want to loose them.

As for looking for another poly relationship:

I couldn't imagine getting involved with someone else on this level. Especially since, if we loose them we will be very hurt and I don't want to ever go thru this again. It's not worth it to me to hurt this bad again. I know that whatever the outcome, we will move on with our lives. My husband and I still have a wonderful relationship and that's what REALLY matters. But it will take a while to mend the hurt of not having them in our lives. But hopefully she will see how much we care and we can (in time) get back to our lives together as a wonderful quad.

[ShellyM]

OP,
I am sorry that you feel this way, but I can understand. We had a couple that we were very, very close to. Almost same but we were not exclusive...but I loved her as a very close friend of mine and not just a play partner. Well, we heard some things that they said behind our back (and it was confirmed to be true that they did say this), and I was destroyed. Now they are on stealth. So I can relate to the hurt you are feeling. HOWEVER. This lady is taking it WAYYYY to far girl, and the vindictive nature would take me from hurt to pissed fairly quickly. Give them their space....however, if it were ME that would be the end of the exclusive stuff. Get out there with your hubby. Have FUN. And if you find other couples to have fun with go on with it. And I would send her an email at least letting her know this beforehand so she doesnt hear about it along the grapevine. What does the hubby of the other couple have to say about how his wife is behaving? I understand they are going through things in their marriage, and I can see if it is severe even pulling back from swinging.......but the hateful way in which she is treating you and your husband is UNCALLED FOR.
Best of luck. Have FUN.
Shelly

[ShellyM]

Originally Posted by cinderellixo

I never should have put on the origanal post about her comments about knowing that she is hurting us. Now it seems that everyone is ganging up on her and I didn't want that. I have tried to explain that she is hurt and that she is lashing out because of her hurt.

Girl, no one is ganging up on her, they are just rendering their opinions on her behavior. Listen. We are all supposed to be adults here in this hobby. You did not do anything to hurt her, and if you are as close as you say she should know this. Like I said, I can see them pulling back for a while. Sometimes pulling BACK allows you time to regroup.....but this stuff happens sometimes!! I think she is really taking an ant hill and turning it into a mountain. I mean, sometimes mis-communications happen. When this happens in our swinging life we use it as a learning tool, not a reason to flip out. If Jay does something or I do something like that it IS always mentioned, but in a calm way. And then we take it from there....but might I forget something that Jay mentioned to me 9 months ago? Yes, perhaps. I forgot to ask if y'all were drinking alcohol when this occured. If you were well there ya go. This is why we don't play with couples with tons of rules, cause when I'm all gin'd up I can forget and break through rules.
This is probably what I would do. I'd probably set a time limit to them acting like children with me. I'd drop her a line and say "listen, I know you are hurt. But if you aren't going to be with us anymore at least give me the respect of telling me. Don't CONTROL my life. You have until whatever date to contact me and let me know what y'all's intentions are. Be advised that we will not be committed to an exclusive relationship with you after that if this matter has not been resolved."
I know she is upset. And she probably DOES have the right to be upset with her hubby girl...I'm NOT saying she doesnt have the right to be angry and hurt. BUT. To say "I'm hurting so YOUR going to hurt with me, and I know I'm being a vindictive bitch but thats just too bad too sad" would piss me off. Anyways, take care. You aren't married to them girl, so you need to have fun with your husband. Shelly

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by cinderellixo

Menage a Trios:

Yes there was a communication on their end about boundaries. Something happened that was not suppose to happen because he thought that he had the ok from her to do it but she never gave the ok. Between my husband and I, we talked about it and was ok with it. So three of us whole heartedly thought it was ok to do what we did. The problem being that she was not ok with it and it was not expressed well enough by her that it was not ok and he did not listen well enough to her to hear that it was not ok. With that being said my husband and I didn't do anything wrong in this matter but we are being shut out because of her hurt. The point that we are trying to make to them is that we would NEVER intentionally do ANYTHING to hurt any of them. And the intention behind the hurt should count for a lot. There was nothing done on purpose or recklessly. We thought that we had the ok and if there was any doubt of it we wouldn't have done anything. Nothing is worth losing what we had together but there is a good chance of loosing it now because of a miscommunication that she is hurt by.

I never should have put on the origanal post about her comments about knowing that she is hurting us. Now it seems that everyone is ganging up on her and I didn't want that. I have tried to explain that she is hurt and that she is lashing out because of her hurt. I guess I just wanted to explain the situation to an ouside source to see what they thought of the situation. I guess I got what I asked for but don't care for the mean comments about her in her time of hurt. When you care about somebody you put up with some lashing out sometimes. I just don't want this to last very long because it is unfair to us. We have put up with a lot so far because we care and don't want to loose them.

As for looking for another poly relationship:

I couldn't imagine getting involved with someone else on this level. Especially since, if we loose them we will be very hurt and I don't want to ever go thru this again. It's not worth it to me to hurt this bad again. I know that whatever the outcome, we will move on with our lives. My husband and I still have a wonderful relationship and that's what REALLY matters. But it will take a while to mend the hurt of not having them in our lives. But hopefully she will see how much we care and we can (in time) get back to our lives together as a wonderful quad.

We had this wonderfull poly relationship with a girlfriend that lasted about a year and a half, and it ended because she fallen in love with a guy who isn't into swinging or poly relationships (and, we always felt it was unfair for her to be "the third one", so we encouraged her into this relationship, even when it was hurtfull for us to know this could mean to finish our poly relationship).

I completelly understand where you are, and what you say about being up to take some leashing (or pain) from someone you love. We've been there. We was very respectfull and attempted to make all the limits explicit, but misscomunication happens, and a couple of times we made some mistake and someone of us got hurt.

The question for us was, from the scratch as a couple exploring the lifestyle, and later on with our girlfriend, that we gave for granted we could make mistakes, and before that happens, we built our "plan B" on how to deal with those mistakes, because no one of us would ever have done anything of this at the risk of being unable to keep communicating to each other as to heal the wounds.

As for us, "loyalty" is the key concept. To be loyal to what you feel, and to be loyal to the loved ones feelings. And what we "measure" here are the intentions to stick to those loyalty commitmens, and not the outcome, wich implies a high degree of confidence in the involved people's honesty.

So, even when we made our mistakes, it worked out pretty well. We used those mistakes to learn from them and avoid doing them again.

What seems to me from your post is that none of you ever devised a "plan B", that you gave for granted no one could make a mistake, and when that happened, laking such a "plan B", this woman was unable to handle it nor to face the problem.

But, even without such a "plan B", it seems to me your take on this was to suppose you could deal with a problem like this, and indeed, you're looking for a way to deal with this in a re-constructive way.

And it also seems to me this other woman didn't, and doesn't have the same take. This makes me wonder if the four of you were in the same page, as you think you was.

I feel sorry for you, specially for you fear to egage in a new poly relationship. We use to think of a poly relationship much like a couple as a unit, much like just one person, becoming a couple of another person or a couple as a unit (much like just one person). To be able to be there and have the experience is great. Not only from what you get from the other person/couple, but from what you get INSIDE your marriage as to be able to act as a unit. And it is pretty sad to read about your fears.

Even if you were able to recover this relationship, or if you were able to engage in a new one, I believe the most important thing to preserve yourself and your feelings is to pay special attention to the expectations everyone involved have.

Because this is the reason for you to be so hurt: you expected this woman, this other couple, to be able to handle things the way you can do. Now, you have the proof that this expectation wasn't realistic enough. Should you knew it wasn't realistic, it's very likely that all of you would be more carefull to avoid scenarios like the ones leading to this situation, or that you would make a communicational effort to make arrangements on how to deal with an unwanted outcome.

Notice that I am not blaming on you for your pain. I am just telling you why I believe you're now where you are, dealing alone (with your husband, as an unit, as a person) with this wound. I am just telling you, you can learn for the experience to avoid this in the future (with this couple, or with someone new), because this is avoidable.

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by sereneiders

The question for us was, from the scratch as a couple exploring the lifestyle, and later on with our girlfriend, that we gave for granted we could make mistakes, and before that happens, we built our "plan B" on how to deal with those mistakes, because no one of us would ever have done anything of this at the risk of being unable to keep communicating to each other as to heal the wounds.

sereneiders,

Would you be willing to share your Plan B, perhaps in a new thread in this forum? I think it would be very beneficial. Working out problems needs a new set of guidelines when it comes to four people.

Mr. Fuse and I have found ourselves in a poly relationship with another couple, which neither of us expected. So far, everything is going great...blissful really. But I'd appreciate the benefit of your experience when it comes to dealing with disagreements or miscommunications that will inevitably happen.

-- Sorry, back to thread now --

To the OP: I hope you will let us know how your situation turns out. I feel for you. It sounds like the other lady has forgotten that she should be approaching problems from a perspective of wanting everyone to be happy in the long term. I know you want to allow her her time to work through the hurt. That is very considerate of you. When someone is hurt, sometimes they need a little time to withdraw and pout by themselves. You seem to know this, and also seem to be approaching it from the perspective of assuming (or hoping) that she is trying to be constructive in the end.

Please just watch that she isn't "pressing her advantage" past the point where it helps everyone in the relationship get past what happened. I think this is key.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by The Fuse

Would you be willing to share your Plan B, perhaps in a new thread in this forum? I think it would be very beneficial. Working out problems needs a new set of guidelines when it comes to four people.

Well, it isn't that we had a recipe or something like this, in any case it has to do to extend the "recipe" a lot of us followed when engaging into swinging, into the poly arena. When you started swinigng with your SO, it is very likely that you made some sort of commitment on how to deal with the unwanted outcomes, as to avoid damaging the relationship. We certainly made it, and we did the same, i.e., set explicit rules on how to deal with painfull things should some of them arouse, and make the commitment to follow them.

Ultimatelly, I believe it is a matter of common sense after giving for granted that shit happens beyond the best intentions people have. So, the question isn't if this could happen, but WHEN it WILL happen, and figure out between all of you, based on the knowledge you have about yourself and everyone's else involved, how everyone will react, and why, as to make this explicit for everyone. Then, based on this information you may devise the contingence plan.

This doesn't fall too far from the "talk, talk and talk" advice we provide to people wanting to start swinging. Moreover when you allow your feelings to get involved explicitilly, I believe you have to keep talking while any of you remains having any doubt, and talk it over again as soon as someone have a doubt or feels there is something odd, like... did you see that in any relationship there are little things bothering you, but not enough as to make a big deal of it, and we often let them pass? Well... just don't let them pass (in any case, take note and devise a place or moment to bring them up).

Back to the OP, it seems to me they weren't in the same page about an eventual unwanted outcome. No one knew this other woman reaction could be this one, and the other three were surprised when she reacted this way. Even for this woman, it doesn't seem there was a way for her to ask for help and support if she were getting hurt, nor for the remaining ones to suggest a way for which they had no clue once she got hurt.

"You're opening your heart, even against my will that enables me to hurt you. Should I hurt you... how you'd react?.. do you know what you need me to do to repair the damage? will you give me the chance?" This are the sort of questions I suggest you to ask and answer, that either the OP didn't ask, or (it's possible) this woman failed to answer.

And I am not talling this to criticize nor to blame on the OP for their outcome, but if there exist some chance to revert it for them, I believe it has to do with this.