Polyamourous Relationships

[OhioCouple]

TeamSoBe,

After reading through your post, I need to comment on a few things that take me back to my original confusion. (oh and thanks guys/gals, thought I had this one figured out...but nooooo)

I think back to the people that I dated. Some I just lusted after for sex, others I sought a deeper commitment/involvement. (Not talking about either of the men I married here). So basically what you were saying when I should look back at prior relationships, it is a feeling you out, waiting game sort of thing? I'll be true to you as long as we both agree to? Like going steady?

In another paragraph you stated that you were in a *poly* relationship for six years, which was a very long time. It wasn't stable but the three and 1/2 year one was? Even though it ended. How could either of those be a poly relationship if you amicably (sp) just drift your own separate ways?

The way that I am seeing the above scenarios are just dating type people. Yes, you may live together, have sex only with each other, but there is no firm comittment. In my point of view these types of couple, triads, are just sexually committed and openminded swingers. Swingers being the operative word.

There was a posting a while back from a single that was having problems in a triad relationship as he had strayed from their relationship during a vacation. Eventually I guess the resolved it, but it took some time and work and healing. I would have to say that triad is definitely a poly. It is to my understanding from the posts that the couple definitely wanted this person soley to themselves and his error in judgement nearly cost him some dear friends and lovers. He was obviously just as concerned about it as he posed the questions here and did finally come back and let us know that they had mended their relationship.

Perhaps I need to look at the fact that poly's are no better off in a relationship than most fly by night marriages.

Lori

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by RnKin Fla


I was 24 at the time I had my poly relationship.

I don't think it was a fling. But I do think I did not have the emotinal maturity to commit myself and move away from my family like they wanted me to.

I'd been married once before (I got married for the first time at 18), so it was not my first loving relationship either.

My first husband and I had been into the swinger lifestyle, but he did not follow the ground rules we had set up, and cheated on me all the time. He also spent a lot of time tearing down my self-esteem. So, this relationship was probably partly a way for me to restore some of that lost self esteem too.

K,

Okay, you were young, experienced a bad marriage and found solace with another couple that helped you to regain your self esteem. I am not meaning to be critical here but if you took yourself out of the shoes you were in and read what you have written....what would be your assessment?

The way I read and see it is that you were a wounded young lady that found comfort in those that gave you the strength to carry on with your life's goals and ambitions. Yes you had sex with them, but that doesn't (in my opinion) make you a swinger or a poly.

Ya'll are killing me here! I'll never figure this out now and....my husband will tell me I have over stayed my nine lives in the morning.

Lori

[imsnowman]

Originally posted by OhioCouple
The way I read and see it is that you were a wounded young lady that found comfort in those that gave you the strength to carry on with your life's goals and ambitions. Yes you had sex with them, but that doesn't (in my opinion) make you a swinger or a poly.Lori

Lori,
Poly is a self-defined state of mind. It is just like marriage only without the legal definition.

What would you say RnKin Fla's relationship was if she had married someone who gave you the strength to carry on with your life's goals and ambitions and "only" stayed with them for 1 year. Are they "dating"?

How many marriages are like this?

In another paragraph you stated that you were in a *poly* relationship for six years, which was a very long time. It wasn't stable but the three and 1/2 year one was? Even though it ended. How could either of those be a poly relationship if you amicably (sp) just drift your own separate ways?

Does it make it any less a marrige if the people just drift their own seperate ways after 3 1/2 or 6 1/2 or 10 or 20 years?

Perhaps I need to look at the fact that poly's are no better off in a relationship than most fly by night marriages.

This would be a good idea although I think you're rather looking down your nose at the whole thing. Why else would you add the little fly-by-night comment? How long have your own marriages lasted? What defines fly-by-night to you?

You seem to have an attitude of disbelief about the whole subject. Like what all of the people who have responded to your questions aren't telling the "truth" or else it doesn't fit some preconcieved notion about poly that you have. Your "confusion" seems more like a persistent attempt to change the definition to fit what you think it should be.
To wit:

was it really a poly relationship as opposed to being a *fling* for lack of better words?

Do people having a fling live like this? Is this your definition of "fling"?

The three of us were all committed to each other, shared a home and a bed, raised the couple's children together. I loved both of them, and they loved me. The kids called me "auntie K," but I was treated more as a second mom, right down to disciplining them and getting goodnight kisses.

Does that sound like you own definition of poly?

Poly ~ A true poly would be one that has three or more people who share everything (including being in love), but only with each other. Ie, home, finances and raising of children etc.

It sure does to me! I think the basic problem is you don't even believe your own stated definition. I think that you don't believe in the idea of poly or maybe you're threatened by it.

To be honest here, I had a mild bi-sexual experience with the F half of the couple, who tried to get me interested in joining with her sister in law also. The whole idea petrified me.

Polyfidelity ~ Where as three or more people share their lives together (not living together)

.And where did you get the idea that polyfidelitious people don't live together? It simply means the same thing that monofidelity to coin a word means. The partners in the relationship are fidelitious to each other. ie they don't swing, screw around or otherwise cheat! No sex outside their agreed on group. They can be living together or not. Makes no diference!

I'll say it again: Poly is a self-defined state of mind. It is just like marriage only without the legal definition. So lighten up on RnKin Fla. She had a poly relationship with that couple. period.

by your confusion!!

[TeamSoBe]

Lori, I think that the snowman has summed it up pretty well by saying that poly is a state of mind. Trying to analyze the differences between swinging and poly by looking at quantifiable statistics like the duration of a relationship isn't going to get you any closer to understanding anything.

Look at it this way: normal people in theoretically monogamous relationships generally sleep around. Swingers do too. Looking at the behavior, there isn't much difference other than that swingers usually do it in groups. Socially though, the big difference is that swingers don't hide the sex from their partners, they share it with each other. Swinging is a state of mind, swingers walk around enjoying the idea that they are sophisticated enough to be able to share in their outside sexual experiences with their partners.

Poly is the exact same thing, but with regard to emotional bonding with other people rather than sex. People in normal monogamous relationships fall in love with other people all the time, the difference with poly people is that they don't hide it from their partners. They share the experience with each other. The whole idea for polys is that it's a wonderful and exciting thing to be able to share the joy of the energy that you feel when you fall in love. Having an intimate sexual partner that loves and supports you while you're learning about somebody new is a pretty powerful thing. It's all extremely romantic and I still say that it's far more powerful than anything that swinging has to offer.

Some clarification on my personal experiences though:

Originally posted by OhioCouple
So basically what you were saying when I should look back at prior relationships, it is a feeling you out, waiting game sort of thing? I'll be true to you as long as we both agree to? Like going steady?

Well, a lot of poly relationships are a lot like going steady. You're on the eternal quest for the perfect relationship that 'sticks' and you try to get there by going through different relationships and giving each one a chance. Some poly relationships last much longer and look more like a real marriage, some don't. My longest was six years and involved the purchase of a house. I've only been with my wife for three years so far, so I do think that it's unjustified to label poly situations as inherently less committed. Poly relationships are more fluid, is all. If it makes sense for one person to leave the group and go off on their own, then that will normally just happen peacefully in a poly situation rather than the forever-or-bust situation that you see in monogamous relationships.

Originally posted by OhioCouple
In another paragraph you stated that you were in a *poly* relationship for six years, which was a very long time. It wasn't stable but the three and 1/2 year one was? Even though it ended. How could either of those be a poly relationship if you amicably (sp) just drift your own separate ways?

This all overlaps. I personally was involved in poly relationships for about a decade, in a sort of continuous peaceful flow from one configuration to the next. For about six years a common element in my relationships was a particular long-term girlfriend. We went through all kinds of situations together that you could liken to 'going steady' with various people, some lasted longer than others. One of those configurations was with another bi girl, that's the one that lasted for three and a half years. Our threesome was very stable and ultimately only ended because of health problems, one of the girls was hospitalized. A while after that the long-term girlfriend drifted out of my life when our social circle split in two because some of us moved out to Silicon Valley. I tried moving out there but it didn't stick for me, she was a computer scientist also and she happened to be falling in love with my best friend, another computer scientist. She left me our house (it was during the tech boom when houses were cheap to us) and went with him, they're traditionally married now and have a son together. That was probably more detail than you stictly needed, but you seemed to be a little confused by my abridged description.

Originally posted by OhioCouple
The way that I am seeing the above scenarios are just dating type people. Yes, you may live together, have sex only with each other, but there is no firm comittment.

The long-term girlfriend and I were together for six years, through college and through the first few years after college. We started a company together that is still doing good business and supporting my wife and I today, we bought a house together and shared vehicles. When it made sense for us to go our separate ways we divided our shared assets responsibly with no messy divorce battle. We were together 24/7 through some of the most exciting years of our life, we supported each other through college and through striking out on our own in the real world, we treated each others' families as family, we shared sexual conquests and the energy of new relationships with each other, and we explored each of our bisexuality together. It was arguably a far more committed and successful relationship than most marriages.

Originally posted by OhioCouple
In my point of view these types of couple, triads, are just sexually committed and openminded swingers. Swingers being the operative word.

I'll flat-out disagree with that one. As the snowman says, poly is a state of mind. The emphasis for poly people is always love and the relationship, never sex. Sometimes poly relationships don't involve all-around sex at all. The long-term girlfriend that I mention above was in the habit of dating lesbians for a while, one of them in particular for quite a while. That lesbian and I were pals and we had a lot in common since we were both in love with the same woman, but we didn't have a sexual relationship.

Poly people don't run around flirting all the time or making sexual innuendo all the time like swingers do. They don't emphasize sex and sexuality all the time, they emphasize love and friendship and relationships. They are romantic, where swingers are erotic. They are an entirely different beast than swingers and they generally look down on swinging as being a completely different and very inferior thing.

Originally posted by OhioCouple
Perhaps I need to look at the fact that poly's are no better off in a relationship than most fly by night marriages.

As the snowman points out, that's a drastic oversimplification. Most poly people would find that statement as offensive as we find it when people come in here and tell us that swinging is just a rationalization for cheating on our spouses.

[RnKin Fla]

Lori,

There's not much more I can add. Imsnowman and TeamSoBe summed it up quite nicely.

I don't believe I was simply dating that couple, nor do I believe I used them or had a fling with them. It was a committed, loving relationship.

I don't know how to explain it otherwise to you.

And that is ok. You don't have to understand it. Honestly, I don't think you have the temperament to understand it. You've said before that you could never share you innermost person with anyone but your sole, significant other. And that is fine - that is what works for you.

I, however, can. In the right situation, and with the right people, I am capable of sharing my entire self with them.

Anyhow, I appreciate Imsnowman sticking up for me. But I wasn't offended. What Lori has said is mild compared to the things my mother has said about my unorthodox lifestyle over the years.



K

[TeamSoBe]

K, that was a big problem for me too. Swinging is easy to hide from family, but poly relationships can be pretty difficult to conceal. My parents are exceptionally cool, but many are not. That's why you see a lot of poly relationships with a traditional straight couple as an inner core, or poly relationships where everybody has an long-term opposite-gender partner to fall back on as a cover story for family and friends that just wouldn't understand. If two swinging couples fall in love and everybody realizes that they are cool with that, then they have basically ended up at the same place from a different angle.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by RnKin Fla
...In the right situation, and with the right people, I am capable of sharing my entire self with them.

Anyhow, I appreciate Imsnowman sticking up for me. But I wasn't offended. What Lori has said is mild compared to the things my mother has said about my unorthodox lifestyle over the years.

K,

I am sorry I didn't see this earlier, I haven't been feeling well and have had a lot going on. I certainly did not mean to offend you if I did, I apologize.

I realize that I am making a bigger deal out of this than needs be, but I am just trying to come to an understanding of what a poly is. I appreciate your sharing with us your relationship.

Perhaps the reason it is so difficult for me to understand is that I am rarely capable of being truly committed to one person, much less multiples, due to my own upbringing. (This has to do with more complicated issues.)

I certainly do not condemn or look down on poly relationships, by doing so it was be as biased as doing so with bi-sexuals, homosexuals, race, creed , religeous beliefs and such. I have no bias for any of them and little tolerance for those that do.

I was merely trying to understand and Imsnowman, TeamSoBe and yourself have enlightend me greatly. For that I thank you all.

Lori

[TeamSoBe]

Originally posted by OhioCouple
Perhaps the reason it is so difficult for me to understand is that I am rarely capable of being truly committed to one person, much less multiples...

Lori, that's the way that a lot of people look at polyamory. They look at the problems that normal couples face in staying together and assume that it's got to be even more difficult to hold a poly relationship together if there are even more people on-hand to make stupid mistakes, cheat on each other, fight over miscommunication, all of that stuff that tears up any relationship. The people who think that are correct, poly relationships are much more complex and it requires more work to hold them together.

For some people, the extra added complexity of the situation is part of the fun. Some people are happy drinking Kendall Jackson. It's simple, tastes good, gets the job done. Some people prefer something like an Opus One. A bottle of Opus One is a pain in the ass to get your hands on and your wallet resents it, but it includes a complexity and robustness that you don't find in a 'normal' grocery store bottle of wine. The added depth and flavor of a poly three-way or four-way is what some of us enjoy.

Look at it this way, when you're in a couple, there is one relationship, the one between the two of you. If we add a third person then you now have four relationships. Each of you have a relationship with each other individually that has a particular flavor to it and that you hopefully enjoy experiencing. That's three relationships going on at once when there used to be one. Then when the three of you are together your relationship has a new feel to it. Four relationships running along and developing character at the same time instead of just one.

The whole thing only works if you love people pretty easily and if you are capable of focusing and committing yourself emotionally to the people that you love. If not then it isn't for you, but some people enjoy learning both of those traits as they go along.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by imsnowman

.And where did you get the idea that polyfidelitious people don't live together?

Actually I got the idea from one of the sites I have read up on, not from what any one person has said here.

Thanks to all who have responded and believe it or not, I think I finally got it. I believe the reason I couldn't grasp the concept had everything to do with my emotional upbringing. Nothing like having to pound something in someone's head huh?

Lori ~ Another day older and wiser.

[RnKin Fla]

Ahhh Lori, I wasn't offended.

And I don't mind sharing. I like to hear myself talk (or type ), if you hadn't guessed.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by RnKin Fla
I like to hear myself talk (or type ), if you hadn't guessed.

Geesh, I am glad I am not the only one!

Lori

[RnKin Fla]

[OhioCouple]

I wanted to bring this topic back up as I feel this update is important to the original questions. The reason for my questioning this was due to an event that I witnessed where as two couples decided to commit themselves to each other. This past week they have decided to not only separate as couples but each other as a couple and both couples are getting divorced.

I am as stunned now as I was when the announced their commitment.

Lori

[Ashley]

Lori,
I have to laugh, not at you, but with you. Poly is indeed a confusing concept but polys are no more capable of holding together relationships than monos are. I've considered myself poly for the last 3 years and I've only been swinging for a month. Most polys disdain swingers because the sex outside the primary relationship is "just sex", no emotional involvement. Polys embrace, no, "require" emotional involvement. I have to admit that I had a lot of misconceptions about swinging before I tried it. I thought that it would diminish my feelings for my partner....imagine my surprise when it deepened them. Life is perverse, we have to experience to really understand.

[OhioCouple]

Ashley,

Just curious, are you part of a poly triad or a quad? Is everyone swinging in your group or just you and your partner? What made you look at swinging? Is that acceptable for poly relationships? Just trying to understand some more here.


Lori