Question for Polys about handling "Romantic Love"

[LetsParty]

I have a question for all you poly-people out there!

I have been reading up a lot about the topic of romantic love. (I guess we can also refer to it as limerence or infatuation, or something else like that. You know… that feeling when you first meet someone… and it’s more of a “love at first sight” feeling than a “I’d like to ____ her” feeling. Or perhaps it started off as lust, but grew into limerence.)

(More on limerence here, if it’s new to you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence)

Anyways, based on my understanding of “romantic love/limerence/etc.”, when this happens (and it’s happened to me back in the day!), the brain’s circuitry truly focuses very heavily on this person, and this person alone.

This is why (I assume) when I have friends who are falling deeply in love with someone, the LAST thing they want to think about is going to a Lifestyle club, posting an ad online, or pretty much fooling around with anyone else.

It’s a drive, and not something we can totally avoid. You start “crystallizing” the other person… how perfect she is… you think far into the future, like having kids together, etc.

For those of you who have been ‘madly in romantic love’, you know what I’m talking about! It’s when 90% of your day is spent thinking about that heavenly other person.

Here is a quote I just came across (taken out of context) but relevant to the type of feeling I am talking about..

“Certainly our emotions [fear, anger, joy sadness, disgust and surprise] contribute to romantic passion…

…The drive to love commandeers all these basic emotions at one time or another. As you feel an irresistible urge to phone “him” or “her”, you can become engulfed with fear that your lover has gone out with a rival, then overwhelmed with joy as he or she answers the phone and says, “I love you,” then pummeled by surprise and disappointment as this celestial being breaks the dinner date you had planned together.”

THAT is what I mean by ‘romantic love’!


…in any case, although we’re swingers and not polys, the following question has always been of interest to me:

How exactly does a primary deal with his or partner “falling” for another, and how does the person who has fallen in “love”, even so much as THINK about their primary partner.

Of course, this mad and passionate concept of “limerence” or “romantic love” or whatever we call it, always does die down and can change into a more mature love. Heck, if we thought about our ‘love interest’ 90% of the day (as per the research out there), as we do during the limerent phase, none of us would hold down a job if this went on for years! LOL!

But seriously, when you meet someone who “WOWs” you. Whether it’s “love at first sight” or whether it started off as mere lust and you had your “moment” together…

…How is it then possible to focus ANY energy on your primary? And to top it off, how can you not be somewhat jealous of your new ‘love interest’ secondary being with another men or women?

I know all about the concept of loving more. I know that when child #2, #3, and #4 comes along, we don’t love child number one any less.

I’m only a Lifestyler. I’m not into Poly. Yet, it’s an interesting concept to me. But what on earth happens to your main relationships during that wildly romantic phase, with all its intrusive thoughts, daydreams, focus, and otherwise?

I’d love to hear from you guys!

[Lady Yes]

Originally Posted by LetsParty

I have a question for all you poly-people out there!

(snip)

(More on limerence here, if it’s new to you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence)

(snip)

But seriously, when you meet someone who “WOWs” you. Whether it’s “love at first sight” or whether it started off as mere lust and you had your “moment” together…

…How is it then possible to focus ANY energy on your primary? And to top it off, how can you not be somewhat jealous of your new ‘love interest’ secondary being with another men or women?

(snip)

I’d love to hear from you guys!

Limerence, eh? We just called it "New Relationship Energy" or NRE.

I like limerence much better...

To answer your question, it is possible -- how easy or difficult depends a lot, I think, on the overall maturity levels involved. For polies, one love doesn't mean there's less love to go around for everyone else, so it's not that big a leap to share some of that NRE with your main honey -- ideally, there's always lots to go around.

It takes awareness, almost constant awareness, on the part of the partner in limerence, keeping your "antennae" out there, making sure you're not being insensitive or unnecessarily unavailable to the person you're sharing a lifetime commitment with. Personally, the times I've found myself in limerence, I've never felt a lack of hot, sexy, excited energy to share with my husband.

YMMV, of course...

[avid]

Originally Posted by Lady Yes

It takes awareness, almost constant awareness, on the part of the partner in limerence, keeping your "antennae" out there, making sure you're not being insensitive or unnecessarily unavailable to the person you're sharing a lifetime commitment with.

Ditto.

When I've had that "new relationship energy", not only do I have that obligation to my primary partner, but I also have to parent my children, make supper, do laundry, keep my business running, see friends, go dancing, play volleyball, teach a class, among the many other facets of my life.

That "new love" feeling CAN'T take over my life. My life is just fuller than that.

[JP51]

The new love engery is an intresting thought. I wonder if it does wane over time and you settle into a poly relationship, that does not have you thining about the new love every second of every day?

[Lady Yes]

Originally Posted by JP51

The new love engery is an intresting thought. I wonder if it does wane over time and you settle into a poly relationship, that does not have you thining about the new love every second of every day?

Sure it does. It has to --- NRE is wonderful, but more than a few months of it would burn anyone out. It's all about the neuropeptides and chemical receptors on our cells, man. There's only so much a human body's built to take.

[ShellyM]

Now, this does not come from personal experience. But one of Jay and I's very good friends (a couple) are swingers.....now, they are monogomous with another couple, I don't know if that qualifies them as poly or not...they don't play with anyone else though. Anyways, I actually asked the hubby about this. They see each other tons....I mean, they do "dates". She will be with the other hubby alone, he will be with the other wife alone, they do threesomes, very active with each other. I asked him if he was worried about falling in love with the other wife. He said no, he can keep it separate...their personal rule is they never have sex with the other person more than they have sex with each other in a given week. It works great for them, they are very happy with their arrangement.

[LetsParty]

Thanks for all the answers...

NRE - I love that term!

Limerence is actually quite specific, though. It does go beyond "NRE", if you will.

Being in limerence SUCKS! I know it sounds like a childish state, but it is well-documented, and heck, it's happened a few times to me in my life. (And two of my female friends are going through it now.... So annoying!! Drama, anyone?)

Here are two things I found:

Signs of 'limerence' in your romantic love relationships:
1. Passionate desires for the other person:
2. Longing for your feelings to be returned by them:
3. Mood swings dependent on how the other person responds:
4. Unable to have these deep feelings with others at the same time:
5. Vivid imagination about the other person:
6. Fear of rejection by the other person:
7. Very sensitive about how the other person responds to you:
8. An aching heart when absent from the other person:
9. A feeling of "walking on air" when positive responses occur:
10. A total mental preoccupation of the other person:
11. Feeling of deep loneliness when absent from the other person:
12. A longing to be with the other person all the time:
13. Focusing your whole attitude around the other person:
14. The need for the other person to reassure you:

As well as:


•intrusive thinking about the limerent object

•acute longing for reciprocation

•some fleeting and transient relief from unrequited limerence through vivid imagining of action by the limerent object that means reciprocation

•fear of rejection and unsettling shyness in the limerent object's presence

•intensification through adversity

•acute sensitivity to any act, thought, or condition that can be interpreted favorably, and an extraordinary ability to devise or invent "reasonable" explanations for why neutral actions are a sign of hidden passion in the limerent object

•an aching in the chest or stomach when uncertainty is strong

•buoyancy (a feeling of walking on air) when reciprocation seems evident

•a general intensity of feeling that leaves other concerns in the background

•a remarkable ability to emphasize what is truly admirable in the limerent object and to avoid dwelling on the negative or render it into another positive attribute.


Sooo... if that MAGICAL moment happens, and POOF, limerence develops, I just wonder what it's like for the primary person, while the limerent lover is spending all this time, effort, cognitive processing, and emotions on this brand new secondary.

Please note that although Hollywood calls this "LOVE", I'm sure you will agree that it's not.

I don't doubt someone can love more than one 'spouse'. But these initial feelings that sometimes happen can be off-the-chart...

I've been there before, sending five text-messages per hour to a limerent object and all... jumping when the phone rang, being sad when an e-mail didn't arrive, etc. etc.

It's a powerful feeling. That must be challenging to both partners in the primary relationship....

...Weird...!

Very weird!

[janaandjames]

wow what a question, and we are involved in it.
but our relationship was slow developing, so its not quiet the same thing... its not so engrosing.
In our case, we started with a threesome partner .. and he has been off and on for about two years.
now we only play with him, and he has become a lover in the real sense of the word.
i go out with him at times, just the two of us, and hubby is not with us .. its not even sexual at times.

but now it would be very hard to give up my lover, and of course i wouldnt want to give up my primary, my husband.
husband is still no. 1, but , my lover now has a large piece or my heart.
but we havent had that "in love" type experience where we think of nothing else but each other ... we havent had that infatuation experience.
maybe because he was first just a playmate for a long time and we slowly slipped into the more polomory type relationship

there is difficulty in managing two men, two lovers, at times ... but we all communicate and talk.. and the two men are close friends, ...
just like anything, there can be difficulties, but communication fixes about all of them.

i do love both of them, but my hubby will always be my primary lover .. even though now, my "secondary" lover is about equal emotionally.

jana

[Menage_a_Trois]

In my opinion the feeling of limerence or infatuation isn't necessarily inherent to every time you fall in love. I think that just because it has happened to you a couple of times, it doesn't mean that it happens to everyone. I personally am deeply in love with both Mrs. Ménage and The Other Mrs. Ménage, but I have never experienced "limerency". In my opinion the mind is a very powerful thing, if you believe when you fall in love you experience a period of "limerancy", your going to experience it. When people are poly they start out with their primary relationship. They know when a secondary relationship happens, that although they are working on developing that relationship, they still have an obligation to their primary partner. It is this that keeps both relationships in balance. Because people in poly relationship understand and know that they have to keep it in balance. The way you describe "limerency" seems more like an extreme. I don't believe that every time someone falls in love or become infatuated with someone that it goes to this extreme. Our society as a whole would go to hell in a hand basket if that was the case. I think part of being in a relationship as an adult is the ability to acknowledge those feeling and yet find a way to keep your life under control and in balance whether this is in a poly relationship or a traditional relationship.

So to answer your question..............you make an assumption that just because you start a relationship with a secondary that it will be this euphoric infatuation "limerence" simply isn't the case. Can it happen - sure anything in life is possible. But I don't think this is the case for most. To give you a short answer I don't think you really are grasping the true concept of polyamory.

Mr. Ménage

[JP51]

and said... I know that in our relationship we all know that we must work it everyday. Two of us are flat out communicators and talk all the time about everything, the other two are happy with communication from the secondary members every few days etc. Our romantic sides come out all the time, as does the need to insure everyone in the relationship is getting what they want and need. It is nice and special when the non-communicators want to do something romantic for the secondary partners, so I think "us" talkers go out of our way to make it happen. Still new to this poly world, never figured I would be in love with two ladies, who understood and wanted to share...

Have to say my life is good!

[LetsParty]

Hey Menage,

Great answer. It makes sense, actually.

FYI... I liked the new term you coined... Limerency!

The actual phrasing would be like this:

While in a state of limerence, the limerent person develops limerent feelings for the LO (or limerent object).

Certainly, not all "falling in 'love'" relationships are limerent ones, and some people have never ever experienced limerence for their entire lives. (I'm still trying to reconcile if this is a good thing or a bad thing!)

The book I read that discusses all this is called Love and Limerence. It's a simply fantastic concept. For people who have never experienced it, they may think it's hogwash. For those who have, it's very real! (And it's what keeps Hollywood going!)

The reason why it's so topical to me, is because during a recent swinging encounter, the other woman (to whom I was extremely attracted) fell in limerence with me.

I knew all the theory behind it; she did not. She loved Hollywood romance movies. I love Star Wars. She gave me the "you don't understand..." speech, and I whipped open my limerence book and read her some excerpts!

As a matter of fact, prior to being with my life partner (7 years now), numerous women have fallen in limerence with me, and I didn't even know what was going on. It hasn't happened throughout 6 years in the lifestyle, up until this summer.

Let me tell you... it was scary. Very scary. Admittedly, I didn't manage it too well, but we'll save that for another thread!

Since 'falling in love' and 'limerence' were always such interesting topics, I did take the opportunity to listen to things she said to me. These things fell directly into the theory of limerence (or what Helen Fisher calls "Romantic Love").

She said she thought about me 23 hours a day... Her heart skipped a beat when she saw me (on our second encounter)... she felt like she was on a cloud... she felt it in her chest... she even started losing interest in sex with her husband, and there was even an element of possessiveness starting. (Yes, I know!! How UNlifestyle-esque!)

...At some level, it got me thinking to my pre-marriage days, with certain girlfriends. That lovely period during months 1 to 3... Walking on air...! Thinking about them 24/7...! Waiting for reciprocation...! (Yes, yes... Even I hit Send & Receive every 10 seconds sometimes, because afterall, Outlook Express has a limit of 1 minute of sending and receiving, which is like an eternity! )

So, anyways... All is well with this little drama... It wasn't a pleasant ending, but it did end, thankfully before any real damage was done.

But it got me thinking about polyamory...

Every so often, you hear about Lifestylers (ie. recreational sex) accidentally falling in 'love'. (there are two dozen threads here about that). You also hear about lifestylers cheating as well. (Something that shocked me, but again, another thread).

So, I was thinking... In polyamory, the 'goal' (if you will) is to fall in love! It's not an accident. When you fall for a partner, this is a 'good' thing, not an 'oh shit!' moment, right?

So that is why this became so interesting to me.

Vanilla married men and married women fall in limerence with co-workers, etc. all the time, and have emotional affairs. (How I wish I could monitor all the text messages across the Cingular/Verizon/Rogers networks!! )

Swingers also occasionally fall in limerence with a partner, and can also have affairs and/or feel heartbroken when they don't work.

Polys are in a unique situation, as compared to all of us pair-bonding dyads!

I'm wondering if, perhaps, the open communication (as alluded to in other posts) between the primaries serves to prevent limerence in the first place...?


Okay, let me ask it this way...

Let's say one of the primaries DID fall into limerence... They meet a person at the mall, the eyes connect, attraction is off the hook, the "you just know" feeling starts, and let the fun begin! Then comes all the limerence / falling in deep love events...

(ie. Crystalizing the new secondary... Walking on air... Having super strong feelings... checking the e-mails every minute... giddy... thinking only about this new hunk/babe... being distracted... Having trouble picturing him or her with someone else... yada yada yada)

...My new question would be...

Is this a BAD thing, or a GOOD thing to happen to Polys?

(And please don't say, "it can't happen to me/us" because let's be honest... it happens to married vanilla people, it happens to clergy, it happens to everyone)

So, what do you guys do, when the initial attraction starts turning into limerence and/or "Falling in Romantic love" (deeply, etc).

Is this when the brakes get put on, or is this yummy, dreamy, delicious, euphoric, Hollywood romance feeling actually acceptable?

Thanks again for all the replies! I think a lot of lifestylers are quite interested in how polys perceive and deal with these things...!

[SamuiCouple]

We have no poly experience (yet), but I would think that the focus effect of infatuation/limerence would be much less 'severe' if you are already in a close and loving relationship compared to coming into a 1 on 1 relationship from being alone.

And if you are mature-minded, it may in fact never really occur.

[flirty]

I think limerence has a lot to do with how emotional and intense a person you are. I find I get this type of feeling quite often, I deal with it by being honest keeping the communication open with my husband. I also need to sit down with myself and put things into perspective; the feelings stem not from reality but from fantasy, I figure as long as I keep that in mind heck ride the wave, just never ever lose the feeling of fasination for my husband the pure joy that he chose to spend his life with me. I share my feelings with my husband; sometimes he helps bring me down to earth and other times he shares in my joy - he is my anchor.

[lindyswing]

Originally Posted by LetsParty

The book I read that discusses all this is called Love and Limerence. It's a simply fantastic concept. For people who have never experienced it, they may think it's hogwash. For those who have, it's very real! (And it's what keeps Hollywood going!)

I just finished reading The Erotic Mind by Jack Morin. He goes deeply into comparing lust and limerance and where they overlap. Great book...really helped me understand my recent and new experiences with limerance. I agree that it's a fantastic concept.

My primary partner and I started on non-monogamy by having an open relationship...permission to have flings with other people separately...this was about 7 years ago. About a year ago, we discovered the swinging world. A couple months later, we started learning more about polyamory...especially upon reading The Ethical Slut...also a great book which I think anyone in a non-monagamous/swinging/poly/etc relationship should read. Anyways, straddling both the swinging and poly worlds works well for us and whether we want more or less emotional involvement with other partners depends on how we feel about the other partners. Right now, I have a boyfriend (=a secondary) that I have really serious romantic feelings for, but it's not full-blown life-complicating limerance. This boyfriend has sort of replaced a previous guy with whom I had a complicated relationship--a major aspect of the difficulties in this relationship with guy number 1: limerance took me (the swinger casual sex queen) by surprise when guy number 1 had signed up for casual sex, not being my boyfriend.

My primary partner currently has a girl he's starting to date, in fact, he's out on a date with her right now...and my primary partner has definitely had lots of other limerant attractions to his secondary partners. So I can definitely respond to your questions:

Originally Posted by LetsParty

I'm wondering if, perhaps, the open communication (as alluded to in other posts) between the primaries serves to prevent limerence in the first place...?

Not in our case. My primary and I have really really open communication and we've been going through limerance anyways. Also, he heard all about all my limerant and complicated relationship with guy number 1, and I always love hearing all about his relationships, which are often limerant.

Originally Posted by LetsParty

Let's say one of the primaries DID fall into limerence... They meet a person at the mall, the eyes connect, attraction is off the hook, the "you just know" feeling starts, and let the fun begin! Then comes all the limerence / falling in deep love events...

(ie. Crystalizing the new secondary... Walking on air... Having super strong feelings... checking the e-mails every minute... giddy... thinking only about this new hunk/babe... being distracted... Having trouble picturing him or her with someone else... yada yada yada)

...My new question would be...

Is this a BAD thing, or a GOOD thing to happen to Polys?

It was both because limerance is a good and bad thing...limerance is intense ups and downs of joy and pain. A big part of my primary and me having this open relationship is that we got together young and don't feel like we've had the dating and sexual experiences with other people that we'd like to experience in our lives, and I hadn't ever really experienced something quite like this before. It was definitely an experience I needed to have in my life--I learned a lot about myself, my values, men, relationships, etc--the experience was even a catalyst into confronting and dealing with some lingering self-esteem issues from a troubled childhood.

Originally Posted by LetsParty

So, what do you guys do, when the initial attraction starts turning into limerence and/or "Falling in Romantic love" (deeply, etc).

Is this when the brakes get put on, or is this yummy, dreamy, delicious, euphoric, Hollywood romance feeling actually acceptable?

It was definitely acceptable. At times it was bad enough that my obsessing over the other guy and my difficult relationship with him got annoying to my primary partner. But most of the time, he found it interesting, funny, a little bit cute, and an opportunity for my growth in life. And for the entire experience, I was continually comparing the comfortable security and true love of my old relationship magic with the insecure ups and downs of the limerant new relationship energy...it definitely made me appreciate how wonderful my primary relationship is...old relationship magic ain't as intense as limerance but overall it's far superior. By the way, if anyone remembers my big post about "Stating a perkier tit preference," I'm talking about the same guy.

With my new boyfriend, I'm more experienced this time around. For example, this time, I was able to recognize that I would have feelings for this guy and to be up front about that from the beginning. I'm also much more compatible with the new boyfriend. So the relationship is smoother and therefore the intensity of the limerance is less stomach-churning...it's just the right amount to make it exciting and fun without taking over my life. I don't obsess about my relationship with this guy much because the relationship is just easier. My partner made a joke the other day that he misses the old boyfriend because I'd always be complaining about him. Now with the new boyfriend, apparently I on and on about how great he is.

When my partner has been in limerance, I always think it's adorable, I feel for him and I get pissed if a girl breaks his heart. If a girl is lucky enough to be the object of my guy's crush, she'd better appreciate it and be careful with his heart. Most people would probably think I'm weird because I can get catty if a girl DOESN'T return his affection, but if she does fall for my guy, I'm all excited and happy about it.