Help and Advice Requested...

[GuyMcDude]

I apologize in advance if this post gets long or I begin to ramble...

I am a married man of 18yrs. I am also involved with a male partner of 3 yrs. My wife knows of my relationship with him and has agreed to allow it to grow. However, while there was a time when my wife was willing to meet him (just to see who it is I am spending so much time with), he never wanted to meet her because of guilt, fear, etc. My wife has since decided that she never wants to meet him now..."the boat has sailed". But, I still see him regularly and stay over night with him at least once a week...he is single, gay, and closeted.

Recently, my wife asked me about my fantasies. I told her that - from a sexual perspective - I would like to try a MMF or even a MMM. But, I told her that ultimately I would love to have a relationship with another male or a male/female couple in which ALL parties were happy and involved with one another. I've even fantasized about having a live-in male partner. We could all share vacations, day to day life, etc...I know, dream on.

Anyway, my wife, much to my suprise was not totally against any of the fantasies or thoughts that I had. In fact, she had fantasized about being with two men at the same time. I LOVE sex...we all do. But, I think what I would really love is an actual relationship in which sex is simply a component of the big picture. I love both my wife and my male partner, but I'm in a very awkward position and it's getting to a point where I either need to end my marriage to be with him (or by myself), or bring someone else into our marriage. I don't think I can remain married AND remain in my current situation. I also don't think I can end my relationship with my male partner as I am at my best and happiest when I'm with him. For the record, before you get the picture of me being a flaming queen, think again! I'm a good looking, 40ish guy who no one would expect to be gay or bi. My situation is very complex and I can certainly go into specifics if anyone is interested...but for now, I'll try to keep it short (ooops too late!).

I just want to be able to look at myself in the mirror and see a happy face smiling back at me again someday. I hope that someone here can offer some words of advice or give me hope that I can truly be happy again someday.

[Menage_a_Trois]

First off, welcome to the Poly Forum.

It sounds like your wife is EXTREMELY open minded and understanding. We are at a loss as to why, after 18 years of marriage you think it may be time to end it. Your wife has agreed to allow you to have a male lover and to pursue the relationship. You admit that you "still see him regularly and stay the night with him at least once a week".

Just because you are in an open marriage, doesn't mean that your wife or lover want or need to have anything to do with each other. Also, it is rather unfair of you to ask your wife to be in a poly relationship (which is what you would be forcing on her, if your lover moved in), if she is not interested in that type of relationship. Lots of people get turned on by the idea of seeing their partner having sex with someone of the same sex; however it is something completely different when it is a long term live in situation. We can understand that you want everyone to be one big happy family, but that doesn't mean that your wife or lover have those same expectations. If you didn't discuss this with them before getting involved, then it is rather selfish of you to expect them to go along with that, just because you want them to.

You stated that your wife has had a fantasy “about being with two men at the same time". That doesn't mean she is interested in doing a 3some with you and a lover. A lot of people have fantasies about threesomes (a woman who wants to try 2 men or a man who wants to try 2 women); the idea of being the center of their attention is a big turn on, this maybe where your wife is coming from with her fantasy. She maybe perfectly comfortable with you having a lover, it is another story when you expect her to be an active participant with the two of you.

T, A, and P

[Chicup]

To me it sounds more like you are gay, and need to come to grips with it.

You like the idea of group sex, but the female is optional to you. You think you might need to leave your wife, but you can't leave the man.

You are happiest when you are with him.

I'm pretty sure that all adds up.

[GuyMcDude]

Chicup, I think you're probably right. I feel much more comfortable with him than I have ever felt with my wife or any other woman prior to my wife. He and I just "click"...it's hard to explain.

I didn't enter my marriage knowing that I was bi or gay, nor did I do so to try to make the gay feelings go away. I genuinely loved my wife so much that I wanted to marry her. It wasn't until we were several years into our marriage that I discovered that all those feelings I had toward men would never go away. Instead, they only got stronger. I know it is very difficult for my wife, and we've had the discussion of whether I should stay or go many times. In fact, my wife recently asked me whether this was going to be a long term marriage, or a marriage that will last only until my daughter goes to college (5 years from now), or a marriage that we should just end now. I told her to give me a week to think about everything, and she's graciously allowed me this time to think. That was 3 days ago. To make matters more sticky, our 18th anniversary is Sunday.

I do love her, and I want her to be happy, but I want ME to be happy too and right now I'm not. I'm depressed and when I'm home, I really want to be with "him". When I'm with him, I normally feel very happy and content. I haven't been able to love my wife like she deserves/wants to be loved in a long time...and it breaks my heart. It's sort of like putting water into a gas tank and expecting the engine to run. It's a liquid just like gas, but it's just not the right chemical makeup. Ok, bad analogy.

If I stay in the marriage, it's going to take some drastic measures, I'm afraid...and I don't know that it's fair to ask my wife to play along with those drastic measures. Nor is it fair to string her through being married to a predominantly gay man because we just can't give one another what we need.

I'll write more later, but I do welcome your thoughts and advice.

[Chicup]

We had a family friend this happened to and it ended badly.

They tried to live seperate lives but that didn't work out. He then tried to get custody of the kids and tried to hide the fact that he was having an affair with a man. His boyfriend and he broke up and the boyfriend testifed against him in court.

Just ugly all around.

Another couple I know (though only professionaly) became a MMF triad and all moved in together, no idea how that worked out as they moved out of state.

A lot of research points to very few men being truely bi. Most seem to be either straight or gay and will eventually head that way in time. It sounds to me like you found your way in this, though I don't think anyone can really help you find the way to work it out.

[Amanda69]

I agree with Chicup the writing is on the wall best to end when all are still on good terms. There is nothing wrong with remaining good friends with your ex but I am sure she must also realize where your preferences lay.

Life is too short to live for others, it will only make you miserable in the long run.

[ShellyM]

I don't know that I can tell you anything that will help you feel better. In all true honesty, and this is only my opinion, it sounds like you are bi and shift more towards men that women at this point. I think you need to decide what you want out of life. It honestly sounds like you are falling in love with your male lover, and out of love with your wife. If you are willing to end a marriage of 18 years rather than give him up, that says something big about what you are feeling. I think your wife deserves to have a husband that loves her 100%, and gives her 100%. If you cannot give her what she needs and deserves I think you need to be honest with yourself and her and go from there. Where there is, I don't know. Only you know, after you have sat down and examined yourself. I think you should go somewhere just by yourself, no wife and no lover. Then you can really look at yourself on the inside and decide what it is you are wanting out of life. If you ask me, and this is my opinion only, it sounds like you want to end the marriage and be with him, but you just can't face the fact that you want to end this marriage. You love your wife, but just not in the same way you once did. I am NOT a counselor, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. But thats what I think in reading your post. You are miserable on the inside, and I think it is because you are living a lie, and when we try to be someone we are not we become pretty miserable pretty quickly. Thats about all I can tell you.

[Dooode]

GuyMcDude:

Nice little sticky situation you got there. I can give you my own perspective as a full bisexual, and perhaps it might give you a few things to think about.

Like you, I entered my marriage as a hetero. Bisexuality or homosexuality never entered the picture until much later in the marriage. I was always faithful to my wife and never went outside the marriage. But when the marriage ended (and bisexuality had nothing to do with it) I decided to investigate that aspect of my sexuality to see where it led.

First I had a bi-couple, of which we were exclusive for 8 months, but then I really pushed the envelope on seeing where my bisexuality extended. I found I was extremely comfortable with men and even more turned on by them.

I even went so far as to have a relationship with a gay man for almost a year (and he was hot!). It was a fairly close relationship; we slept together several times a week (yes sex, but also SLEEPING), showered together, cuddled while we watched movies ... it was very much a gay relationship.

BUT

He couldn't understand that I also still had something of a yearning for women. It wasn't a big yearning, but it was still there.

The bottom line is that during the 10 years that I've been a practicing bisexual, I grew to be extremely sexually comfortable with men (and even preferred it) ... but now that most of the experiences are out of my system, I've also grown to be a lot more comfortable with women than I used to be.

So now my sexual interest has balanced out to be a 50/50 split. It's like I've settled into a niche of comfort, without anxiety of NEEDING either sex. I love being with women, I love being with men. But now I don't NEED more one than the other.

I will always grow toward a woman as a life mate as I believe that's how God (and Mother Nature) intended it. Now that I've experienced damn close to everything I can with men, I can move comfortably forward with a lady and know that a man will never be a distraction.

I hope this helps.

[GuyMcDude]

I really appreciate your comments and opinions. It always helps to hear these things from a non-partial third party...even if the opinions or suggestions sting a little bit. Sometimes we need to be stung.

Last night was very strange. I woke up from a deep sleep, not breathing. It doesn't happen often, but when it does it sure does get my attention! Anyway, it woke my wife up; this was around 1:30 am. As I was trying to go back to sleep, she had something else in mind. So, when I realized I couldn't fake being asleep...my little head was more awake than my big head, I decided to go along with her wishes. She got off, I didn't and I layed awake until 4:30.

Fast forward to this afternoon. It's typical for my wife and I to just lay on the bed in our underwear when we first get home from work. Get out of the work clothes and just relax for a few minutes. Anyway, today we're doing what we usually do, and she goes down on me, which is FAR from usual. I allowed it to happen, although I probably shouldn't have. Both cases, last night and this afternoon were simply sex...not making love. We haven't made love in ages; even though we DO love each other. It's a really hard thing to explain.

Tomorrow, I will spend the day with my male partner (boyfriend, whatever you want to call it), then Sunday is me and my wife's anniversary. It's going to be awkward, and we both know I must give an answer here within the next few days about the future of our marriage...but I don't want to make that decision ON our anniversary. I only hope that I (we) can live with whatever answer I come up with (which I think is going to be to leave). I worry about my daughter especially. We've always had a pretty close relationship, so hopefully after she gets over the initial hurt and anger, she will forgive me and we can continue to grow our father/daughter relationship.

Man...Str8 guys have it easy! I kid. Thanks again for all of your comments, I'm still all ears! Have a great weekend.

[ShellyM]

Originally Posted by GuyMcDude

I worry about my daughter especially. We've always had a pretty close relationship, so hopefully after she gets over the initial hurt and anger, she will forgive me and we can continue to grow our father/daughter relationship.

How old is your daughter? It really makes no difference though, no matter the age pain is pain. The most important thing for your daughter is that she knows that she is loved, and that she is not the cause of your separation. Many children of divorce live with guilt, believing somehow that they had a hand in the end of their parent's marriage. She needs to be reassured that you are still her daddy, and you still love her like you always have. I wish you only the best of luck. Im sure your wife knows, we women have an intuition like nothing else. I'm sure from what you have said she will not be surprised.

[jon0468]

Wow, I know I'm catching this one late, but I haven't been on the board in a good long while. I really feel for you brother. I have know my wife for 18 years, and can't even begin to imagine your struggle. I agree with Chicup though, it seems you are happier with your male partner than your wife. I see the last post here was months ago, I would be curious to know how it has been going for you, to see what stage you are at so I can give up to date advice.

Hope you are doing well.